Adani Coal Airport
Thread Starter
Economy destroying idiot attempts to 'walk it back'...
"...German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in her weekly podcast that every country needs to pitch in to keep global temperatures from rising.
Merkel also said it’s the responsibility of the industrial countries to develop environment-friendly technologies that are future-oriented, but “don’t lead to a loss of jobs.”
“We don’t gain anything if steel mills, aluminum plants and copper mills leave our countries and go somewhere else where environmental regulations are less strict — because then we haven’t made any gains for world climate,” she said..."
https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-cit...-climate-deal/
Meanwhile, thanks to climate idiots merkle and Co...
"...Recently German SAT1 television broadcast a documentary on the state of the European and German increasingly green power grid: “How secure are our power grids?” Due to the volatile and unpredictable supply of wind and solar energy, the grid has become far more unstable, the documentary warns...
...Bernd Benser of GridLab-Berlin tells viewers that while grid operator Tennet had to intervene only 3 times in 2002 to avert grid instability, last year he says the number was “over 1000” times — or “three times daily”.
These intervention actions, known as redispatching, cost the consumer about a billion euros last year alone, says Benser..."
German Media Report: Power Grids In Distress?Highly Unstable Due To Wind And Sun Power!
All thanks to solar and wind power..
.
"...German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in her weekly podcast that every country needs to pitch in to keep global temperatures from rising.
Merkel also said it’s the responsibility of the industrial countries to develop environment-friendly technologies that are future-oriented, but “don’t lead to a loss of jobs.”
“We don’t gain anything if steel mills, aluminum plants and copper mills leave our countries and go somewhere else where environmental regulations are less strict — because then we haven’t made any gains for world climate,” she said..."
https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-cit...-climate-deal/
Meanwhile, thanks to climate idiots merkle and Co...
"...Recently German SAT1 television broadcast a documentary on the state of the European and German increasingly green power grid: “How secure are our power grids?” Due to the volatile and unpredictable supply of wind and solar energy, the grid has become far more unstable, the documentary warns...
...Bernd Benser of GridLab-Berlin tells viewers that while grid operator Tennet had to intervene only 3 times in 2002 to avert grid instability, last year he says the number was “over 1000” times — or “three times daily”.
These intervention actions, known as redispatching, cost the consumer about a billion euros last year alone, says Benser..."
German Media Report: Power Grids In Distress?Highly Unstable Due To Wind And Sun Power!
All thanks to solar and wind power..
.
Still waiting for a reason why our government should have any business giving Adani a financial leg up for their project.
If they are going to pour money into it, I'd rather it was a nationally owned mining company so that Australia would retain the wealth.
If they are going to pour money into it, I'd rather it was a nationally owned mining company so that Australia would retain the wealth.
Thread Starter
Whilst we is on "retaining wealth"... Who ultimately gets the taxpayer funded monies of the FRV solar power facility at Moree ?
Moree Solar Farm received $101.7 million in funding support from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA) and a debt finance commitment of $46 million from the Clean Energy Finance Corporation (CEFC).
Chief Executive Officer of Fotowatio Renewable Ventures (FRV), Rafael Benjumea noted “The project would not have been possible at the time without the support of ARENA and the CEFC”.
Whilst we is with FRV, they have claimed a first:
In May 2016, FRV signed a contract to sell the entire electricity output of Clare Solar Farm and large-scale renewable energy certificates (LRECs) produced by the plant to Origin Energy. Through the Power Purchase Agreement (PPA), Clare Solar Farm was the first large-scale solar project in Australia to obtain funding without Government subsidy.
Wow! Milestone, No taxpayer subsidy... although, what is them "renewable energy certificates" ?..
And then there's the 'gold plating' of the power system to handle all that solar surge... Hmmm, who pays for that..And who ultimatly owns FRV ?... google takes me to some Saudi prince..
.
Originally Posted by Bingy
Hmmm... an infrastructure loan on facility's that other company's will be allowed to use... Yeah, and the facility's are ours to keep no matter what happens to Adani...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Binghi excitably says about a new solar farm :-
It's a great pity he he is unable to truthfully say that about any coal fired power station ever built in Australia.
Wow! Milestone, No taxpayer subsidy...
Thread Starter
So yes rutan around, I'm unable to say that Oz coal fired power stations were not subsidised by the taxpayer. At least the 'subsidy' stayed in Australia and didn't disappear overseas into the pockets of China or a Saudi prince..
.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heh, for a dumb ol barely literate hill farmer i thought i were doing fairly good...
So you may export some or all of your product. Now if everything we use were to be manufactured in Aust how are the countries you export to going to pay for your farm products if you don't buy some of their products?
Top rates of pay that were paid for by the Oz tax payers.
At least the 'subsidy' stayed in Australia
How we managed to allow infrastructure monopolies, paid for by the taxpayer, to get into the hands of greedy corporations defies logic.I think the idea must have been pushed by the same people who dreamed up the term 'Trickle Down' to pull the wool over the eyes of low paid workers.
Monopolies that supply basic needs should remain in the hands of government. ie the people. Some that come to mind are power, water, sewage, roads, ports,airports. There are no doubt more. At least with government ownership either prices are low or profits go back to the people. Unlike the situation where monopolies are owned by big corporations, if we don't like how government runs them we get a chance to sack the government every 3 years and hopefully find better replacements.
There are institutions dedicated to providing funds for these kinds of projects, they are called banks, and for reasons you have remained silent on, they aren't touching the Adani project with a 10-foot barge pole. If there is money to be made loaning money for this project why isn't the private sector getting in on this?
The government's job is not to provide money to foreign megacorporations who are unable to secure funding from the private sector. If this were for any other project than a coal mine you would be screeching from high heaven.
The facilities will not be of use to anyone except the operator of the mine.
The left/green faction and climate alarmists have made any corporation very wary of associating themselves with fossil fuels, and particularly coal. I'd say the bad PR they'd have to deal with outweighs any investment upside. Add in short sighted ideologically driven state government policies that bend which ever way polls take them, and it's not surprising they won't back it. A labour government is just as likely to make coal illegal.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
short sighted ideologically driven state government policies that bend which ever way polls take them
"Short sighted" is a matter of your opinion. I would say most opposed to Adani are actually exercising a "long sighted" viewpoint. The "short sighted" are tempted by short term construction jobs. The "long sighted" see very little gain to the Australian economy, and potential long-term damage.
The banks see a project unlikely to succeed.
So why would Joe Public want to fund it?
It ain't the Greens shutting this folly down.
A labour government is just as likely to make coal illegal.
Last edited by Derfred; 15th Nov 2017 at 13:38. Reason: Addition
Thread Starter
I'm wondering what some of these anti fossil fuel posters are doing in a pilots forum. Aviation is part of the fossil fuel industry. Aviation only exists because of the fossil fuel industry. No fossil fuel and no flights to Bali, holidays in Europe, junkets to Switzerland, kids to Disneyland, Greeny conventions in La La land, etc, etc, etc...
So if someone truly believed in global warming they certainly would not be in a fossil fuel burning aircraft pilots forum..
Anyway, back with coal:
"The latest projections from the Paris-based International Energy Agency confirm that coal will remain the single biggest source of electricity generation in the world as far out as 2040.
This is despite the claims that China, the biggest generator and user of electricity in the world, is going all ‘renewables clean’. In a word, it isn’t."
Category: | Herald Sun
And if you want to be the worlds factory then make sure you lock-up the magic ingredient:
"...Investors in China and India increasingly dominate ownership of coal reserves amid campaigns for divestment in many rich nations..."
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-cl...-idUKKCN18C0HB
.
So if someone truly believed in global warming they certainly would not be in a fossil fuel burning aircraft pilots forum..
Anyway, back with coal:
"The latest projections from the Paris-based International Energy Agency confirm that coal will remain the single biggest source of electricity generation in the world as far out as 2040.
This is despite the claims that China, the biggest generator and user of electricity in the world, is going all ‘renewables clean’. In a word, it isn’t."
Category: | Herald Sun
And if you want to be the worlds factory then make sure you lock-up the magic ingredient:
"...Investors in China and India increasingly dominate ownership of coal reserves amid campaigns for divestment in many rich nations..."
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-cl...-idUKKCN18C0HB
.
Last edited by Flying Binghi; 16th Nov 2017 at 01:18.
For the last time, the climate change/coal vs. renewables has nothing to do with this thread.
Please address the issue which is the ethics of Government subsidy of a specific business proposal.
My view, for the record, is that the entire proposal, revolving around Government investment as it does, stinks to high heaven.
This project has all the hallmarks of a disaster for Queensland if not Australia.
Please address the issue which is the ethics of Government subsidy of a specific business proposal.
My view, for the record, is that the entire proposal, revolving around Government investment as it does, stinks to high heaven.
This project has all the hallmarks of a disaster for Queensland if not Australia.
Thread Starter
For the last time, the climate change/coal vs. renewables has nothing to do with this thread.
Please address the issue which is the ethics of Government subsidy of a specific business proposal.
My view, for the record, is that the entire proposal, revolving around Government investment as it does, stinks to high heaven.
This project has all the hallmarks of a disaster for Queensland if not Australia.
Please address the issue which is the ethics of Government subsidy of a specific business proposal.
My view, for the record, is that the entire proposal, revolving around Government investment as it does, stinks to high heaven.
This project has all the hallmarks of a disaster for Queensland if not Australia.
The only reason the Adani coal project is being challenged is because of the global warming hysteria. The only reason the new coal fields airport is being challenged is the global warming hysteria.
Again:
"...A highly orchestrated, secretly foreign-funded group of Australian environmental activists opposing the $16 billion Adani coalmine in Queensland has “dampened” Indian investment interest in Australia and received heated criticism from the federal Coalition and Queensland Labor governments.
Indian Power Minister Piyush Goyal told The Australian (Newspaper) yesterday the years of legal challenges to the vast Carmichael coal project, now revealed to have been funded by multi-million-dollar foundations in the US, “will certainly dampen future investments” from India..."
US donors funding activists to shut down Australian mines, ports and rail, approved by Hillary?s right-hand-man? « JoNova
.
ethics of Government subsidy of a specific business proposal.
The Vic Govt gave Australia's once richest woman $1.2 mill to help her look for more gold, the Feds gave Arrium $50 mill to put into a clapped out steel works, BHP and Rio got $100 mill for a mine that isn't even in Australia. We just spent $120 mill to prop up the Post Office and answer a question that didn't need asking. It's only money. Government isn't about ethics, it's about votes.
Last edited by Traffic_Is_Er_Was; 16th Nov 2017 at 09:38.
Thread Starter
I don't see the benefit. The mine is in out the back of nowhere. The facilities will not be of use to anyone except the operator of the mine. Whether you think so or not, it is more likely than not that coal will be phased out as a fuel over the lifespan of a coal mine. This adds a significant amount of RISK to the loan as there is no longer a rock solid guarantee that Adani will ever pay it back.
There are institutions dedicated to providing funds for these kinds of projects, they are called banks, and for reasons you have remained silent on, they aren't touching the Adani project with a 10-foot barge pole. If there is money to be made loaning money for this project why isn't the private sector getting in on this?
The government's job is not to provide money to foreign megacorporations who are unable to secure funding from the private sector. If this were for any other project than a coal mine you would be screeching from high heaven.
There are institutions dedicated to providing funds for these kinds of projects, they are called banks, and for reasons you have remained silent on, they aren't touching the Adani project with a 10-foot barge pole. If there is money to be made loaning money for this project why isn't the private sector getting in on this?
The government's job is not to provide money to foreign megacorporations who are unable to secure funding from the private sector. If this were for any other project than a coal mine you would be screeching from high heaven.
You obviously didn't do the commercial pilot 'rites of passage' flying pistons "out the back of nowhere" or yer would have noted that much of Australia's export income comes from farms and mines located well away from your suburban cafe..
"...There are institutions dedicated to providing funds for these kinds of projects, they are called banks, and for reasons you have remained silent on,..."
chuboy, I have made many posts referencing exactly this issue. As with any greeny your knowledge of the subject is limited.
"...coal will be phased out as a fuel over the lifespan of a coal mine..."
India and China deal in the reality of their peoples poverty not your greeny fantasys. That's why they are building large new coal fired power stations and why the world will need even more coal mines.
And just for a laugh...
"China will use solar power to melt the permafrost in Nagqu, a near-polar climate in Tibet, so that trees can grow in the region..."
https://sputniknews.com/asia/2017111...forests-tibet/
.
Last edited by Flying Binghi; 19th Nov 2017 at 22:54.
I do miss Sir Joh
Back in the day, the Nats er Country Party actually did some good in Queensland with the then fledgling coal industry. Did you know? in 1971, Just out of the Goonyella-Hay Pt line, Queensland made $30,000,000.00pa in royalties in 1970s dollars out of transporting coal... on that one line! Back in the day, FIFO was BANNED!...until the advent of FBT. Remember, all this infrastructure was paid for by the mining companies themselves. On that point alone, Adani is suspect. Gina would build in a heartbeat and she is, without government handout. The showpony of Qld is wayyy out of her depth. It isn't an environment issue it is an infrastructure issue and if the mines want it they must pay for it...and if the showpony Palla-CHOOK was any good she would be like Sir Joh...but she isn't....the mines would pay and then pay for the Qld government to run it and charge freight on every last kilogram.
It appears to me, we have children arguing about how to solve the world's problems...because, as children, they do not realise...there are no problems!
Do not get me wrong on this issue of "climate change" the climate changes all the time.
Back in the day, the Nats er Country Party actually did some good in Queensland with the then fledgling coal industry. Did you know? in 1971, Just out of the Goonyella-Hay Pt line, Queensland made $30,000,000.00pa in royalties in 1970s dollars out of transporting coal... on that one line! Back in the day, FIFO was BANNED!...until the advent of FBT. Remember, all this infrastructure was paid for by the mining companies themselves. On that point alone, Adani is suspect. Gina would build in a heartbeat and she is, without government handout. The showpony of Qld is wayyy out of her depth. It isn't an environment issue it is an infrastructure issue and if the mines want it they must pay for it...and if the showpony Palla-CHOOK was any good she would be like Sir Joh...but she isn't....the mines would pay and then pay for the Qld government to run it and charge freight on every last kilogram.
It appears to me, we have children arguing about how to solve the world's problems...because, as children, they do not realise...there are no problems!
Do not get me wrong on this issue of "climate change" the climate changes all the time.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It isn't an environment issue
Storage of energy via batteries, hot salts and pumped hydro are OK for households and to a limited degree for the grid.
The real game changer is coming where energy is stored in a cheap man made gas that stores hydrogen economically for indefinite periods. The gas can easily be transported and will be a huge export earner for Australia.
I wouldn't describe BP, EXON and SHELL as tree hugging lefties but you non believers in clean energy should look up how many billions of dollars they have put into clean energy so far.
Why have Toyota, Honda, Nikola Corp and Hyundai to name a few put so much money into Hydrogen vehicles? Why are they being tested in Australia? Where are they going to source their Hydrogen when the energy revolution gets into full swing?
You may think Anna is out of her depth but the truth is she knows a lot more about what we should be doing to catch the next wave of exports than the knuckle draggers who want to live in the past and build coal fired power stations while losing taxpayers money helping Adani.
Do not get me wrong on this issue of "climate change" the climate changes all the time.
You might reflect on the fact that never before in the life of our planet have so many humans lived on it and never before has such a huge amount of greenhouse gas been released into the atmosphere in such a short time.
This time we have the equipment to tell us the cause.
The green/alarmist agenda and a populace with the attention span of a 2 year old has placed any support for fossil fuels in the same place as questioning the yes vote. Political suicide. That's why the banks won't touch them. It's got nothing to do with economics and all to do with public perception. Government polices that are at odds with each other make investing in anything that might end up on the wrong side of the fence depending who has the balance of power extremely risky. Clowns like the ACF doing this are the reason:
Lawyers at Environmental Justice Australia wrote to the directors of the NAIF on Tuesday sharing legal advice that the loan would put the directors personally in breach of duties to consider the financial risks associated with climate change if they make an investment decision in support of the Galilee Basin rail project.
Who's "legal advice" would that be then? The Legal department at EJA perhaps? Vote yes and we'll drag you through the courts. It's our way or the highway.