PPRuNe Forums


The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th Oct 2017, 01:40   #1 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 10
GA a Joke (or just the people in it)

this is my rant (& probably going to get criticism for doing it on PPRuNe)

For a guy that's trying to get that first job in the industry, that first foot in the door is a struggle which i have experienced for the last year and a half sitting here pushing, knocking on doors here in Broome. the absolute messed up part is seeing people in town that have only been here for 2 weeks get an interview and get a job without a hesitation (which i have seen multiple multiple times in my time here) . i guess companies don't look at commitment anymore and just pick and choose who they want to give jobs to.

Rant over
Cessna 210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 01:45   #2 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 10
i should say i worked my absolute ass off getting to this point in my career just the fact that there is no respect for that is a joke
Cessna 210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 01:58   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Sydney
Posts: 73
Always been the way. It's not what you know, it's who you know
Brakerider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 02:00   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: australia
Posts: 220
Quote:
the absolute messed up part is seeing people in town that have only been here for 2 weeks get an interview and get a job without a hesitation (which i have seen multiple multiple times in my time here) .

Can you give a bit more info to get a picture of your situation?


Total hours?
Age?
Instrument Rating?
What aircraft types do you have time on?
mikewil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 02:22   #5 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 10
I have 245 odd hours, Im 23, instrument rated and have flown 172's mostly rg, Baron (55 + 58) and have done some time in a 210 (10hours or so)
Cessna 210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 02:25   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: australia
Posts: 220
Quote:
I have 245 odd hours, Im 23, instrument rated and have flown 172's mostly rg, Baron (55 + 58) and have done some time in a 210 (10hours or so)

Pretty rough going, I would have thought you'd be quite competitive up there at the moment with those sorts of hours.
mikewil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 02:30   #7 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 10
You would expect that ay but just like i said before they tend to pick and choose up here
Cessna 210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 02:35   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: elsewhere
Posts: 102
I know it's hard mate and often seems to make no sense.
Some of the brightest guys and girls I know slogged it out in ga for 5+ years, others who everyone considered to be not so great, somehow managed to snag a dream job, and had ga done and dusted in less than 1000 hours.

Try your hardest not to give up, keep knocking on doors, making phone calls and sending out cv's. You have to become known to the aviation scene, when a job opening arises you have to make sure they think of your name.

Try and stick it out as we finally have movement in the industry, the most we're probably going to see for a long time. Hopefully you can jump a few rungs quickly. Good luck
Flyboy1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 03:06   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The Shire
Posts: 2,835
I would suggest if it hasnít happened in that location, you donít tick the boxes for the companies concerned.

Iíd be asking for some feedback on why you are not suitable, and ask them to be brutally honest. Pack up and move to the next spot. Try your hand in Kununurra, or the areas outside of Darwin.

One of the biggest issues in GA is pilot weight. The small guys can carry more payload. So the 50-70kg guys get hammered.

If you canít make it work in Australia, thereís always PNG or Africa. At your age personally Iíd be heading to Canada. Thereís some awesome GA in the north and you can work there until youíre 30.
The Green Goblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 04:36   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Brisbane, Qld
Posts: 1,008
GG Has some really good advice there. I've been in your shoes, took me 2 years to find my first full time job, did some skydiving here and there in between as well to keep clocking some hours.

Keep your chin up, it's a bloody hard industry but like anything, if you want it, you'll get it, you just need to decide how much time, effort, blood, sweat and tears you're willing to invest based on your own personal situation. Treat it like a Charter Flight, set your own personal limits and if you reach them, make a decision.

There can be multiple reasons why you're not getting a job, as mentioned you need to ask the operators and do tell them to be brutally honest. I heard recently (for example) one particular operator up there seems to have all Kiwi Pilots, generally when looking for new Pilots most Chief Pilots would rather people already working for them recommend someone they know, it gives them more confidence in employing that person if someone vouches for them and if they're a company that has all or predominantly Kiwi Pilots then they'll be recommending their Kiwi friends, fair or not it's the way it works in a lot of places.

I actually never really thought of Broome as being an excellent first time employer, they seemed to mostly operate 210s, Caravans and Twins last time I checked which means the guys with Skydiving hours in Caravans will always get the first look in.

I'd highly recommend taking a look at your situation, try finding out whom they have been hiring and what sort of hours they've got then think real hard about whether you're competitive in regards to what they're looking for. If not, don't be afraid to gather your things and head elsewhere, I did it and a lot of others did as well I'm sure.

As GG also mentioned, Africa would be an idea, Botswana in particular, there is a massive thread all about it over in their section. Why not try Susi Air? It gets a bit of a bad rep but it is what you make of it, if you choose to be a cowboy it's dangerous, if you don't, it's not so bad I'm told for a newbie. Canada would sure be a lot of fun but don't know much about your prospects there. Why not head back to the East Coast and find a Skydiving Operator and get some experience there? Once again, it might get a bad rep but it is what you make of it, if you work hard and treat it as a challenge to improve your skills and become a good, solid Pilot and not just someone who can start an Aircraft and fly it like a yo-yo, then that is how you'll come out of it.

Most of all, try to enjoy the ride, you're 23, lots of time ahead, don't be in a rush, don't treat this time as just a stepping stone and definitely don't treat your time in GA as just a means to an end that you have to "endure", those that do have always come across as Bitter Pilots that no one wants much to do with IMHO, try to enjoy yourself and the experience, it'll make it all the more worthwhile.
Ixixly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 09:34   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Wellington
Age: 32
Posts: 59
Chin up bud there ant no other way but forward
Jbrownie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 09:44   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 617
Wet season isn't far off, good time to get a leg in if you can. Probably better of packing the car and heading further north. More opportunities in KNX or DRW than BME.
Duck Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 11:34   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: on your living room ceiling
Posts: 158
Go to Katherine Aviation. With those hours you'll get a gig, they're always hiring
SpyderPig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 11:47   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 3,217
It's been a while and I might be a bit out of touch...

But I'd say that Broome is not the place to be with those hours. Much of Broome work is scenic and one bad pilot, or a not well presented one will have a bad effect on the business. Pax talk and talk. Especially the grey nomads in their superannuated Prados and 30 foot vans experiencing the wilds of the remote Australia packed into the caravan parks like sardines. It might be that the CP feels that 245 is just not enough, no matter how good you might be.

Insurance is also a hassle, waivers can be sought for less than the standard but at a cost and hassle.

Get your skates on and get to somewhere with movement.

It won't be the first time you will be scratching your head. When QF was last recruiting, it seemed that anyone that was a laziest of the base, or did a wheels up got in but the good pilots didn't.
compressor stall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 14:39   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: S16 47.2'
Posts: 109
Yep, time to move. I watched a few blokes sit in Broome with similar time to yourself for eons while the rest either got a gig or moved to the NT. I would head to Darwin, see what’s about up there, I don’t know (personally) anyone who’s waited long for a start in Darwin, it just sucks that it’s a $#!thole compared to Broome.
Left 270 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th Oct 2017, 16:48   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: QLD
Posts: 3
Hi C210,

There's a great deal of positive and proactive advice given in the previous posts. There's not much point me repeating it, so I'm going to play the part of devils advocate. Keep in mind that what I know of you and your situation is only what you've written above. I also haven't spent any time in Broome for a few years now.

The title of the thread. "GA a joke. (Or just the people in it)"

It comes across a bit melodramatic, condescending and unprofessional. So where does that leave you in the equation? Most small businesses anywhere in any industry tend to be run reactively. Do your best to be flexible and patient towards the way they work. The larger companies that I've dealt with in Broome have been professionally represented from the most junior employee to the top.

Great that you stated you were having a rant, so that's why I'm keeping this positive for you. I know it's tough watching others get jobs before you. Don't foolishly disguise commitment for something else. In the last year and a half have you kept yourself current? Have you been studying as much as you should? If I were interviewing you, I wouldn't give the job to the guy who's been waiting around the longest. GA companies don't exist to put hours in your log book. They are looking for the right fit for the job. Unfortunately the sole criteria is not waiting around at the Roey or Divers.

Broome's a small place, pilots and chief pilots talk. I hope that things turn around for you. But nobody owes you a job. It's up to you to be proactive and professional and others will see that. Good luck.
111fairchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Oct 2017, 06:49   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Up the Creek without a paddle...
Posts: 271
Some good advice above. Ask for some genuine feedback and work on whatever it is. As one of the previous posters touched on, your height and weight may be holding you back as frustrating as that may sound. I also know of someone that missed out on a job because he was wearing a hat, after being requested to fly to a remote town for an interview. Sometimes it's the small things! Don't give a CP a reason to dismiss you.

Another note to mention is that a lot of operators will employ Ops staff who are fresh pilots and then promote them to flying after a minimum service in ops for a certain time frame. One operator in Broome in particular requires a 1 year commitment as an ops manager before transitioning to line flying. Those guys/girls may argue that THEY have done the hard yards hanging around for a job but at the end of the day, they have managed to get their foot in the door by making that commitment to ops first. It also gives them the opportunity to learn what a real commercial operation is all about.
Might be worth thinking about.

Good luck with the job hunt, your time will come.
Pilotette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Oct 2017, 08:12   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 133
Quote:
One operator in Broome in particular requires a 1 year commitment as an ops manager before transitioning to line flying.
That's pretty much what they do at Buffalo airways in the IcePilots series. Earn your keep and show your commitment by sweeping ice off the wings prior to flight :-)
StickWithTheTruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Oct 2017, 08:25   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... Still!
Posts: 2,861
If I was in Broome, that would be the job I'd go for. sweeping ice off the wings prior to flight
Capt Fathom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Oct 2017, 10:05   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: South East Asia
Age: 50
Posts: 2,640
If I was in Broome I would like to be Capt Fathoms on call assistant.
Seriously though, I would go to the local operators and tell the boss you have a plan to move to Darwin and want to avoid making the same mistakes up there as you did here when it comes to approaching operators and interviewing, ask them to give you some tips and then move to Darwin and systematically implement them.
Let us know what you do
framer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 19:19.


© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1