One down at Jimboomba (SEQ)
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I think SS was maybe trying to articulate "Aviate - Navigate - Communicate" in that order.
The problem with this simplistic view is we just don't know what train of events led to a tragic outcome in this and the Essendon accident.
There are lots of complicated and inter-related factors that make assumptions about causes in events such as these very problematic.
The problem with this simplistic view is we just don't know what train of events led to a tragic outcome in this and the Essendon accident.
There are lots of complicated and inter-related factors that make assumptions about causes in events such as these very problematic.
Sweet Surrender:
Because, you stupid Ghoul, the people involved do not contemplate their own immediate deaths. They contemplate either recovering from their situation and perhaps being in need of assistance afterwards or receiving help and encouragement from the ground.
That latter actuality has happened before for VFR folks caught in IFR conditions.
Again I pose the question, why are people making mayday calls instead of FLYING.
That latter actuality has happened before for VFR folks caught in IFR conditions.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it", was the quip I'm familiar with. One story that came out of the Vietnam conflict was the mayday caller getting the reply, "Shut up and die like a man". Legend has it that the saying originated in the Korean conflict where "aviator" rather than "man" was used, "aviator" reputedly being a status term used by USN pilots, Marine and USAF being mere pilots.
So we now have two action items for the regulator:
(1) Make it an offence to transmit a MAYDAY in circumstances in which at least 2 arseclowns who weren't in the cockpit and have none of the facts of an emergency are of the opinion that the pilot who was in the cockpit should have spent his or her time doing something else than transmitting a MAYDAY.
(2) Amend the AIP to include this broadcast to be made in any circumstance in which someone considers a MAYDAY transmission to be poor airmanship: "Shut up and die like an aviator."
The contribution made by Downunda and Godzone to the collective wisdom called "airmanship" and "professionalism" is immeasurable.
(1) Make it an offence to transmit a MAYDAY in circumstances in which at least 2 arseclowns who weren't in the cockpit and have none of the facts of an emergency are of the opinion that the pilot who was in the cockpit should have spent his or her time doing something else than transmitting a MAYDAY.
(2) Amend the AIP to include this broadcast to be made in any circumstance in which someone considers a MAYDAY transmission to be poor airmanship: "Shut up and die like an aviator."
The contribution made by Downunda and Godzone to the collective wisdom called "airmanship" and "professionalism" is immeasurable.
Last edited by Lead Balloon; 1st Oct 2017 at 09:09.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Speaking as 'someone who knows someone' who has made a genuine Mayday call;
He had no option.
He knew he was going down, with no chance of saving it, and he had three passengers on board. The time interval from knowing he was going in to impact was about 30 seconds. He made the call.
Everyone survived. The most badly injured was he, the Pilot, who never ever flew again professionally!
His response to this thread after it was brought to his attention is/was;
Fly a mile in my shoes. Then tell me what you would have done!
Until then, STFU
He also wonders just how the thread drifted to mayday calls from the first post!
He had no option.
He knew he was going down, with no chance of saving it, and he had three passengers on board. The time interval from knowing he was going in to impact was about 30 seconds. He made the call.Everyone survived. The most badly injured was he, the Pilot, who never ever flew again professionally!
His response to this thread after it was brought to his attention is/was;
Fly a mile in my shoes. Then tell me what you would have done!
Until then, STFU
He also wonders just how the thread drifted to mayday calls from the first post!
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I once made a mayday call. I was going down and knew that nobody knew where I was within 20-30 miles, phone coverage was poor and this was before the days of phone tracking. I landed successfully on a very steep rock covered hill and it was only sheer luck that I didn't roll back down the hill to the certain destruction of the aircraft and possibly my jumping out if I was still able to.
Nobody heard the mayday call and luckily I was able to walk to a house to find out a location to get picked up from.
Nobody heard the mayday call and luckily I was able to walk to a house to find out a location to get picked up from.
Don't take my previous post the wrong way, I'm all for maydays. The only opportunity ever I had for one I didn't, mainly because as PF I was up to my eyes in crocodiles at the time. PM on the other hand did get one out while the situation was wrestled back into some semblance of order. Quick off the mark, a good lad. Alex C***** thumbs up.
for pilots to waste time giving a Mayday call when there is no one, other than themselves, who can help them. It would seem to be a lot more productive to use that time to attempt to regain control.
He was able to describe what was happening and the fact his aircraft was iced up. His transmissions were invaluable to the subsequent investigation into the cause of the accident.
Similarly with the crash of a BAC One-Eleven during a test flight in England in 1963 caused by loss of control after the aircraft entered a deep stall.
The test pilot was able to transmit what corrective actions he was trying.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_B...ven_test_crash
The timing and content of the broadcast may also save the taxpayer millions in unnecessary search costs. Plus it will increase the probabilities of timely assistance in the event that people survive the accident.
Cameras are every where. A recent spin crash on camera...
Pád letadla na ?eskolipsku | Prima PLAY
Thread about the prang:
http://www.pprune.org/accidents-clos...-republic.html
.
Pád letadla na ?eskolipsku | Prima PLAY
Thread about the prang:
http://www.pprune.org/accidents-clos...-republic.html
.
saving taxpayer funds
[QUOTE=Lead Balloon;9916860]The timing and content of the broadcast may also save the taxpayer millions in unnecessary search costs.
Yep, a Mayday from MH370 with accurate position might have even saved lives, as well as our pockets.
Yep, a Mayday from MH370 with accurate position might have even saved lives, as well as our pockets.
...sarc Off/
Yep, its us pilot types who no mater what are firstly concerned about saving the taxpayer money... That's why we need a pilot in Canberra... Vote One Dick Smith for Prime Minister..
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Yep, its us pilot types who no mater what are firstly concerned about saving the taxpayer money... That's why we need a pilot in Canberra... Vote One Dick Smith for Prime Minister..
.
It's not a dichotomy, FB.
A mayday could save your life and could save your PAX lives and could provide crucial information about the cause of the accident and could save millions in unnecessary search costs.
Depends on the circumstances.
A mayday could save your life and could save your PAX lives and could provide crucial information about the cause of the accident and could save millions in unnecessary search costs.
Depends on the circumstances.
How about we all agree that it's Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, we all know it and the Pilot flying this Aircraft felt that he had enough time to Communicate whilst trying to save the Aircraft and their lives and with none of us having been in their particular shoes it really is a bit much to be casting aspersions based on that fact alone.
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So what caused all this? Another diesel failure? Yeah I know that will raise flags, but MTBF is my interest here. I suspect the old avgas burners do better?
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Don't think so Jaba. IO-360-M1A
RegoSearch | VH-MPM Australian Aircraft Registration Details
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...r/ao-2017-096/
RegoSearch | VH-MPM Australian Aircraft Registration Details
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...r/ao-2017-096/