The Mustang and the four-bladed Ryan story
Thread Starter
The Mustang and the four-bladed Ryan story
The May 1995 issue of AOPA published a story by Dr Tony Fisher called "My Mustangs". It was wonderfully written story which I still have in my library.
A couple of years back I contacted Tony Fisher who lived in Tasmania and got his permission to update his story and have it published in Pacific Flyer magazine. I called the story "It wouldn't happen nowadays"
The opening paragraph of his story started thus:
"My love affair with a P51 started when I was approached by a non-ferrous metal dealer from Taren Point. He knew I had a PPL and asked if I would be interested in buying an aeroplane he had obtained by tender to melt down for pots and pans. The name P51 didn't mean a great deal at the time other than it was some sort of fighter. My first aeroplane was a Fairchild Argus which I bought from Sammy Dodd, who gave me my PPL.
I took my wife Helen to look at the Argus. She took one looked and claimed`you needn't think I'm getting into that thing. That's the old paper plane from Moree. My father went to Sydney once in that and said he could have got there quicker on a push bike`. That's what you get for marrying a nurse from Moree.
When the non-ferrous dealer mentioned the Mustang's 400 MPH cruise I thought of Helen's father on a push bike. I was sold. The price having been agreed upon was 300 pounds"
In fact Tony Fisher finished up owning two Mustangs based at Jerilderie I think. I left the RAAF in October 1969 and joined DCA. There were a few of us ex RAAF pilots behind desks there and bored fartless at the mind-numbing bureacracy. Bruce Clark an ex Hercules QFI was one of them and we had adjacent offices. One day he showed me a small photo from his wallet of him in the cockpit of a Mustang in a field somewhere in western NSW. The Mustang didn't have a canopy on it and seemed to be covered in bird droppings. .
The problem was lack of glycol coolant essential for the RR Merlin. So Bruce contacted a squadron mate who was a flight engineer at 36 Sqn Richmond and managed to get a few gallons of glycol brought down by car to the property. The Mustang owner knew Bruce was a RAAF pilot and invited him to fly his Mustang - albeit with no canopy. Bruce had never flown a Mustang but he had a few hundred hours on Wirraways which was near enough.
I too had flown Wirraways and also Mustangs and believe me if you could handle a Wirraway there was no real problem with flying a Mustang. In fact I had only 210 hours in my log book when I first flew a Mustang.
Bruce would drive from Richmond to the property (it may have been called "Canarney" which is 5000 acres at Jerilderie because that was where Tony Fisher had one of his Mustangs I think). Bruce Clark would do a few circuits in the open cockpit Mustang and then drive back to Richmond. A couple of other RAAF pilots had a go at it too.
Before completing this Pprune post I must add one more story in Tony Fishers article. Tony by now had a few hours on his Mustang. Previously he had only flown lighties and his Argus and a Ryan ST. He tried a short field landing in his Mustang at the homestead Canarney and ground looped. In his words:
"In sheer desperation I applied full right rudder. Round she went in a great cloud of dust coming to rest not far from the fence and the entrance from the main road. A passing motorist seeing the dust and commotion drove straight in and up to the aeroplane, just as was winding back the canopy.
"Are you all right, mate?'
"Course I'm all right" I claimed, not wishing to emphasise my predicament.
"I thought you'd crashed"
"No way, that was a normal precautionary short landing"
"Oh yeah"- he sounded a bit sceptical. "What sort of aeroplane is that?"
"A four bladed Ryan", I lied.
"How fast will it go?"
"400 knots"
"What's it worth?"
"Four hundred quid"
"I'm learning to fly next year. I was going to buy a Cessna, but now that I've seen one close up, I think I'll buy a Ryan".
PLovett
Centaurus, you are quite correct, the property was Canarney at Jerilderie. That is where I saw the second Mustang when I went there for the Canarney Cup in 1972, an aviation themed event over the Australia Day long weekend that included one hell of an air-race.
At the time Tony Fisher owned a Lockheed 12A, as well as a pair of Ryan STMs', and used it to commute from Sydney to his properties. Several of the the Herc drivers from Richmond were also checked out on the aircraft as I remember.
Tony's wife, Helen, had heard about these dangerous aircraft called Mustangs and refused to allow him to get one (he hadn't told her he had already bought it) so he didn't get to fly it for a while. I believe he got checked out while on a trip to the USA. He told Helen that he had a P51 endorsement and she was none the wiser. If you ever met them you will realise that it was a considerable act of bravery on the part of Tony to tell Helen what a P51 was.
The decision to sell the aircraft came after two engine failures where he was lucky to be able to dead-stick them into a paddock (Jerilderie does have some advantages). Helen delivered an ultimatum that it was either the Mustangs or her. The failures were later attributed to the Packard built Merlin engines where the oil galleries didn't quite match between two of the components thereby restricting the oil flow.
While I was there the Mustang did some ground runs but did not fly. Tony had removed something to ground the aircraft until payment had been completed. It was the first time I had heard a Merlin running, something you never forget.
A couple of years back I contacted Tony Fisher who lived in Tasmania and got his permission to update his story and have it published in Pacific Flyer magazine. I called the story "It wouldn't happen nowadays"
The opening paragraph of his story started thus:
"My love affair with a P51 started when I was approached by a non-ferrous metal dealer from Taren Point. He knew I had a PPL and asked if I would be interested in buying an aeroplane he had obtained by tender to melt down for pots and pans. The name P51 didn't mean a great deal at the time other than it was some sort of fighter. My first aeroplane was a Fairchild Argus which I bought from Sammy Dodd, who gave me my PPL.
I took my wife Helen to look at the Argus. She took one looked and claimed`you needn't think I'm getting into that thing. That's the old paper plane from Moree. My father went to Sydney once in that and said he could have got there quicker on a push bike`. That's what you get for marrying a nurse from Moree.
When the non-ferrous dealer mentioned the Mustang's 400 MPH cruise I thought of Helen's father on a push bike. I was sold. The price having been agreed upon was 300 pounds"
In fact Tony Fisher finished up owning two Mustangs based at Jerilderie I think. I left the RAAF in October 1969 and joined DCA. There were a few of us ex RAAF pilots behind desks there and bored fartless at the mind-numbing bureacracy. Bruce Clark an ex Hercules QFI was one of them and we had adjacent offices. One day he showed me a small photo from his wallet of him in the cockpit of a Mustang in a field somewhere in western NSW. The Mustang didn't have a canopy on it and seemed to be covered in bird droppings. .
The problem was lack of glycol coolant essential for the RR Merlin. So Bruce contacted a squadron mate who was a flight engineer at 36 Sqn Richmond and managed to get a few gallons of glycol brought down by car to the property. The Mustang owner knew Bruce was a RAAF pilot and invited him to fly his Mustang - albeit with no canopy. Bruce had never flown a Mustang but he had a few hundred hours on Wirraways which was near enough.
I too had flown Wirraways and also Mustangs and believe me if you could handle a Wirraway there was no real problem with flying a Mustang. In fact I had only 210 hours in my log book when I first flew a Mustang.
Bruce would drive from Richmond to the property (it may have been called "Canarney" which is 5000 acres at Jerilderie because that was where Tony Fisher had one of his Mustangs I think). Bruce Clark would do a few circuits in the open cockpit Mustang and then drive back to Richmond. A couple of other RAAF pilots had a go at it too.
Before completing this Pprune post I must add one more story in Tony Fishers article. Tony by now had a few hours on his Mustang. Previously he had only flown lighties and his Argus and a Ryan ST. He tried a short field landing in his Mustang at the homestead Canarney and ground looped. In his words:
"In sheer desperation I applied full right rudder. Round she went in a great cloud of dust coming to rest not far from the fence and the entrance from the main road. A passing motorist seeing the dust and commotion drove straight in and up to the aeroplane, just as was winding back the canopy.
"Are you all right, mate?'
"Course I'm all right" I claimed, not wishing to emphasise my predicament.
"I thought you'd crashed"
"No way, that was a normal precautionary short landing"
"Oh yeah"- he sounded a bit sceptical. "What sort of aeroplane is that?"
"A four bladed Ryan", I lied.
"How fast will it go?"
"400 knots"
"What's it worth?"
"Four hundred quid"
"I'm learning to fly next year. I was going to buy a Cessna, but now that I've seen one close up, I think I'll buy a Ryan".
PLovett
Centaurus, you are quite correct, the property was Canarney at Jerilderie. That is where I saw the second Mustang when I went there for the Canarney Cup in 1972, an aviation themed event over the Australia Day long weekend that included one hell of an air-race.
At the time Tony Fisher owned a Lockheed 12A, as well as a pair of Ryan STMs', and used it to commute from Sydney to his properties. Several of the the Herc drivers from Richmond were also checked out on the aircraft as I remember.
Tony's wife, Helen, had heard about these dangerous aircraft called Mustangs and refused to allow him to get one (he hadn't told her he had already bought it) so he didn't get to fly it for a while. I believe he got checked out while on a trip to the USA. He told Helen that he had a P51 endorsement and she was none the wiser. If you ever met them you will realise that it was a considerable act of bravery on the part of Tony to tell Helen what a P51 was.
The decision to sell the aircraft came after two engine failures where he was lucky to be able to dead-stick them into a paddock (Jerilderie does have some advantages). Helen delivered an ultimatum that it was either the Mustangs or her. The failures were later attributed to the Packard built Merlin engines where the oil galleries didn't quite match between two of the components thereby restricting the oil flow.
While I was there the Mustang did some ground runs but did not fly. Tony had removed something to ground the aircraft until payment had been completed. It was the first time I had heard a Merlin running, something you never forget.
Moderator
.. all those years as a young sprog I had heard mythical tales of the "Jerilderie Mustangs" and never really knew whether they were truth or fiction.
Now that is one more hole in my archives filled .. many thanks.
Now that is one more hole in my archives filled .. many thanks.
I remember Tony well, I bought a share in the Lockheed 12A then registered VH ASV.
Did an initial twin and initial tail wheel in one go on it at 130hrs TT
A great aircraft to fly
Did an initial twin and initial tail wheel in one go on it at 130hrs TT
A great aircraft to fly
I've got a photo of my brother-in-law sitting in the cockpit of a Mustang at Jerilderie. My wife said the owner was a bloke called Val Chapman who lived in Jerilderie and flew it from the airstrip there. Photo taken around 1968-1970-ish I reckon. Brother-in-law was about 12 I'd reckon. And Canarnie was a farm my wife's grandparents owned before Dr. Fisher bought it. My wife was raised in Jerilderie and Finley and she says she remembers Val roaring around in the Mustang.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Permanently lost
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tony Fisher owned 2 Mustangs, he sold one to a fellow who killed himself in it at the opening of an airstrip in Victoria - low level, high bank angle, decreasing airspeed - stalled and spun. The other one, the one I saw at Jerilderie, is I think VH-BOB now.
Tony had a number of properties, including one near Mt Isa and it was thought that he may have had one of the Mustangs there for a time. It may, or may not, have been the aircraft that formatted on the DCA F-27 flying between Alice Springs and Tennant Creek that has at times been cited as a Spitfire.
Tony had a number of properties, including one near Mt Isa and it was thought that he may have had one of the Mustangs there for a time. It may, or may not, have been the aircraft that formatted on the DCA F-27 flying between Alice Springs and Tennant Creek that has at times been cited as a Spitfire.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 300 quid for a flying Mustang blew me away. Converting into todays $$$$ if he purchased it in 1950 it would be $15,000. If he bought it in 1960 it converts to only $8,500. When I think what my C210 SIDS cost just to check it out it makes me 
It would have bought several 4 bladed Ryans.
It would have bought several 4 bladed Ryans.
Tony Fisher owned 2 Mustangs, he sold one to a fellow who killed himself in it at the opening of an airstrip in Victoria - low level, high bank angle, decreasing airspeed - stalled and spun.
Why's it called a Commonwealth aircraft CA18 rather than a North American P51?
The 300 quid for a flying Mustang blew me away.
It would, i imagine, be one of the licence built aircraft produced in Australia at Fishermans Bend I think from memory
Keith Meggs : The CAC-built North American Mustang Has some info, there would undoubtedly me more.
Keith Meggs : The CAC-built North American Mustang Has some info, there would undoubtedly me more.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A few inaccuracies there I think Centauraus. Doubt very much that Bruce Clarke ever flew Tony's Mustangs and definitely not with a canopy removed. He did know people who were flying them though. I doubt very much that Val Chapman flew one. He only flew his Ryan on the calmest of days. The Mustangs did not use glycol at Jerilderie as it was as you say in short supply. Water and Barr's Leaks was the go. The batteries were tractor batteries so no negative G manouevers. John Lindner did fly a circuit with Kurt Schenk in the rear with the aux fuel tank still fitted but the canopy would not close. John said that the noise was deafening. Tony had bought one aircraft from the RAAF at Tottenham ostensibly for scrap. Picked it up on a weekend, (asked that it be parked near the fence so "the crane could pick it up") and then flew it to Jerilderie. Neither of Tony's aircraft were in Queensland during his ownership but the aircraft that Col Pay acquired was from there. I don't think Tony had any engine failures or forced landings but one aircraft cracked something in the engine and the subsequent water/Barrs Leaks mixture on the windscreen did result in a difficult landing into the setting sun. Tony offered me one of them for $600 in 1966 and I had that sum on me, but RAAF experience made me believe that such machinery had to be inspected by half a dozen engineers before each flight and DCA were difficult about putting them on the register. One letter to me from DCA said "we do not know to what combat stresses they might have been subjected" My query as to how the aircraft differentiated between combat and non combat stresses was not answered.
Last edited by Bill Pike; 25th Aug 2017 at 05:34. Reason: typo, addition
Edgar Pickles would be laughing at all this. He, of course, never flew a Mustang around the Jerilderie/Deniliquin area back in the day. Must have been "Tony" or "Bruce"....
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is quite correct Lead Balloon. Edgar did have possession of one of Tony's aircraft for a time but did not go ahead with the purchase, (not sure of the financial arrangements. It was I think-193). I flew John Lindner over to Edgar's property to fly it back to Carnarney near Jeriiderie
So Edgar's claim that he bought and sold his Mustang was made up by Edgar?
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't say about Edgar's financial dealings with Tony. I can say that he didn't have possession of the aircraft for very long though not sure how long. Tony asked John and I to go over to Edgar's property (which was I think the location for the four blade Ryan story) in Tony's Ryan (the two bladed variety) and fly the aircraft back which we did after some minor re-assembly of the carby intake ducting. I seem to recall the ducting could only be put together in one order which wasn't the order we were trying at first!
Last edited by Bill Pike; 25th Aug 2017 at 06:05. Reason: Additional
You have already said about Edgar's financial dealings with Tony that: "[Edgar] did not go ahead with the purchase". Are you sure about that?
Thread Starter
Doubt very much that Bruce Clarke ever flew Tony's Mustangs and definitely not with a canopy removed
Bruce Clarke and I were Airways Surveyors in adjacent offices at DCA 188 Queen St in Melbourne in 1969 -70. I remember he had this tiny thumbnail type photo in his wallet and it was him sitting in the Mustang sans canopy. One doesn't forget that recollection lightly as it was so unusual. You may be right that he didn't fly the Mustang although my recollection is he told me he did and it was noisy without the canopy. He said he did a couple of circuits. I had no reason not to believe him. As you may know he died from a heart attack around 1977 while at his desk at DCA. He complained of feeling unwell then simply keeled over
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Wings, I suppose that we all sometimes confuse what happened with what we wish happened. Bruce thought that he was talking to an audience of one. He could not have known that 40 years later you would be able to repeat his story to perhaps thousands of people, including one of perhaps only two people on the planet who would know the difference!
Cheers
Bill
Cheers
Bill
Why's it called a Commonwealth aircraft CA18 rather than a North American P51
The P-51 designation could only be applied to an aircraft that had been produced to a USAAC order, and duly assigned a USAAC serial, which may then have then gone to another military operator under the lend lease program.
Australia operated them all - home built CAC 17 & 18, USAAC lend lease, and British aircraft of various marks supplied under lend lease. Australia was unique in that the CAC 18 Mk. 23 used versions of the Merlin not used by any other operator in their Mustangs.
In 1948, the designation P-51 (P for pursuit) was changed to F-51 (F for fighter). So the US didn't have any P-51's in Korea.
