Airventure Australia bans AvPlan from attending? Really?
Ixixly,
While it might have affected only Avplan we dont know the extent of the exclusivity arrangement. Was it just avplan or does it include other EFB suppliers like Garmin and Jeppesen?
The main point I was trying to make was that there is a difference between an exclusivity arrangement over food and an exclusivity arrangement over an aviation product....
While it might have affected only Avplan we dont know the extent of the exclusivity arrangement. Was it just avplan or does it include other EFB suppliers like Garmin and Jeppesen?
The main point I was trying to make was that there is a difference between an exclusivity arrangement over food and an exclusivity arrangement over an aviation product....
Fair point no_one, there is a difference between an arrangement over food, exclusivity over an aviation product and your example of a particular Aircraft Manufacturer, I'd say they would be the 3 levels infact, Food being insignificant and expected, EFB being middle ground, and an Aircraft manufacturer exclusivity being on the extreme end and I'd suggest unacceptable.
It should be mentioned that Garmin are listed as an Exhibitor on the Air Venture website, I'm assuming there may perhaps be some restrictions placed on them, I'd doubt it though, but it could also be that they are recognised as being substantially different, OzRunways being a sole EFB application whilst Garmin Products generally incorporate aspects of EFB into their products in a way that OzRunways cannot and likely don't want to.
The Jeppesen EFB IMHO isn't worth discussing anyway! haha.
It should be mentioned that Garmin are listed as an Exhibitor on the Air Venture website, I'm assuming there may perhaps be some restrictions placed on them, I'd doubt it though, but it could also be that they are recognised as being substantially different, OzRunways being a sole EFB application whilst Garmin Products generally incorporate aspects of EFB into their products in a way that OzRunways cannot and likely don't want to.
The Jeppesen EFB IMHO isn't worth discussing anyway! haha.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Guys and girls, you have all been told the truth already by others and seem unable to accept it.
BOTH parties were approached. One declined in person, the other went away to see what/how.
Edited.....just coz it needs less second guessing from me!
BOTH parties were approached. One declined in person, the other went away to see what/how.
Edited.....just coz it needs less second guessing from me!
Last edited by Jabawocky; 14th Aug 2017 at 09:22.
The point seems to be that one potential participant didn't want to take up the offer and that you can't then turn up and set up a table and do your own thing when all the other exhibitors and vendors are trading under strict conditions so that the organisers can make a return on what is a considerable investment and have enough to set it up the next time.
I haven't organised airshows but I have been a tour manager for bands and most people have no idea of all the contracts and arrangements that have to be put into place long before the event. Someone can't just rock up and set up a stall and not give an agreed cut to the band, promoter and venue. There are many who try after all the arrangements are in place and then whine when they are excluded.
They are given the option to approach the council to see if they can set up their stall in the street outside. Funnily enough they never do.
I haven't organised airshows but I have been a tour manager for bands and most people have no idea of all the contracts and arrangements that have to be put into place long before the event. Someone can't just rock up and set up a stall and not give an agreed cut to the band, promoter and venue. There are many who try after all the arrangements are in place and then whine when they are excluded.
They are given the option to approach the council to see if they can set up their stall in the street outside. Funnily enough they never do.
The point seems to be that one potential participant didn't want to take up the offer and that you can't then turn up and set up a table and do your own thing
One provider of aviation data & mapping took a sponsorship package - and good on them.
Another didn't want to, but did want to take up a commercial package for an exhibit booth that was available to others, that they had taken up in the past and was promoted by the organisers. The organisers not only disallowed this but banned AvPlan attending (taking the AvPlan statement at face value).
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is what smells:
You would like to set up an exhibit stand? No worries, that will be $1000 (or whatever it is).
Oh, you sell EFB software? Well, just for you the price just went up to $30,000. Cough up or don't come.
This is the bit that the Trade Practices Act would likely have an issue with. Not to mention a fair go.
Was this directly aimed at excluding AvPlan? I don't know, but if I was launching an EFB startup and hoping to exhibit would I be excluded too? How on earth could I be expected to cough up $30,000?
There's effective marketing and healthy competition and uncompetitive/unethical behaviour. There is a line in the sand in there somewhere, and a significant portion of observers seem to be of the opinion that it was crossed, hence the social media backlash. AvPlan didn't manufacture the backlash.
OzRunways must have subsequently felt embarrassed about that so they withdrew as damage control. I don't have an issue with OzRunways, they are not big enough to have a professional PR team who might have predicted such a social backlash. I also don't have an issue with AvPlan for merely pointing out on their website why they were refused attendance. The rest of the news has come from the public, you and me.
I hope it doesn't happen again, and that the show can somehow go on.
Edit: This is a guess, but AvPlan's comment that they never received a formal request indicates that the $30,000 price theorised above was not even offered as part of their rejection notice. It was just "No." So after politely declining initial verbal sponsorship invitations, the next thing they knew was that they were refused attendance. I'd be miffed too.
Disclaimer: I use Jeppesen
I have friends who use OzRunways and I have friends who use AvPlan. They both seem to be good products.
You would like to set up an exhibit stand? No worries, that will be $1000 (or whatever it is).
Oh, you sell EFB software? Well, just for you the price just went up to $30,000. Cough up or don't come.
This is the bit that the Trade Practices Act would likely have an issue with. Not to mention a fair go.
Was this directly aimed at excluding AvPlan? I don't know, but if I was launching an EFB startup and hoping to exhibit would I be excluded too? How on earth could I be expected to cough up $30,000?
There's effective marketing and healthy competition and uncompetitive/unethical behaviour. There is a line in the sand in there somewhere, and a significant portion of observers seem to be of the opinion that it was crossed, hence the social media backlash. AvPlan didn't manufacture the backlash.
OzRunways must have subsequently felt embarrassed about that so they withdrew as damage control. I don't have an issue with OzRunways, they are not big enough to have a professional PR team who might have predicted such a social backlash. I also don't have an issue with AvPlan for merely pointing out on their website why they were refused attendance. The rest of the news has come from the public, you and me.
I hope it doesn't happen again, and that the show can somehow go on.
Edit: This is a guess, but AvPlan's comment that they never received a formal request indicates that the $30,000 price theorised above was not even offered as part of their rejection notice. It was just "No." So after politely declining initial verbal sponsorship invitations, the next thing they knew was that they were refused attendance. I'd be miffed too.
Disclaimer: I use Jeppesen
I have friends who use OzRunways and I have friends who use AvPlan. They both seem to be good products.
Last edited by Derfred; 15th Aug 2017 at 15:20.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Well that was a waste of a post :roll eyes:
The truth is in the first page or two, so if you missed it go back and take a look. Bevan is a mate of mine, and I can assure you he made a blunder, several actually.
As for your assumptions they are wild inaccurate
The truth is in the first page or two, so if you missed it go back and take a look. Bevan is a mate of mine, and I can assure you he made a blunder, several actually.
As for your assumptions they are wild inaccurate
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an aside, it is in all OUR interests for BOTH Avplan and Ozrunways to thrive.
Healthy competition keeps both more affordable, and both improving their software regularly.
Heaven help us if there was a monopoly - eg just look how the major airports corporations (monopolies) charge and go on.
Healthy competition keeps both more affordable, and both improving their software regularly.
Heaven help us if there was a monopoly - eg just look how the major airports corporations (monopolies) charge and go on.
As an aside, it is in all OUR interests for BOTH Avplan and Ozrunways to thrive.
From memory there are 4 licenced providers other than Airservices Australia - OzRunways, AvPlan, Jeppesen, and Lido (a programme that is from an offshoot of Lufthansa). Plus, you can pretty much now rely on data from Garmin on one of its new moving map panel or handheld GPS units and soon (if not already) Dynon.
And you've got to expect that one day ForeFlight's dominance in the US will lead it to branch out in Australia. And Jepp has a VFR product in the US which you've got to expect will come to Australia one day also.
And it is still actually legal to use AsA paper maps and documents.
OzRunways & Avplan are both good products and both deserve to succeed, but its not a 2 horse race and its a reasonably crowded space with probably a further shake out looming.
Which makes Air Venture's singling out of AvPlan look all the more bizarre
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Currently Dynon have arranged access to Airservices Aust Maps through Ozrunways and Avplan as resellers.
Garmin steadfastly refuse to arrange any access to our local maps/charts.
Garmin appear to have decided to punish Australian customers as a tactic because they are pissed off with Airservices refusing to allow 3rd party companies free access to their mapping product.
Dynon, to their credit, have shown a way it can be done at no expense to themselves other than enabling it in their software. They are responsive and supportive of their non US customers. Garmin not so.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This reeks of SAAA arrogance and incompetency. Rip everyone off so they can go away with a profit. The did it in Mangalore, Wagga, Cowra and now Narromine. The AOPA and RaAus should kick SAAA out of any partnership and GA would be a lot better off.
A bold claim. What evidence do you have?
Article from Australian Flying about the situation. Hopefully the event can be saved...
The Last Minute Hitch: 11 August 2017 - Australian Flying
The Last Minute Hitch: 11 August 2017 - Australian Flying
Below is what LJ posted in 2014. Does something become true if you repeat it often enough?
Eljay's AvatarEljay , 23rd Jun 2014 16:13
Typical SAAA administration. They have burned everyone that ever tried to help them. Mangalore, promised the world, used everyone, then moved on.Wagga, promised the world, used everyone, then moved on. Cowra, promised the world, used everyone then moved on. Looks like it's Narromines turn.
Typical SAAA administration. They have burned everyone that ever tried to help them. Mangalore, promised the world, used everyone, then moved on.Wagga, promised the world, used everyone, then moved on. Cowra, promised the world, used everyone then moved on. Looks like it's Narromines turn.
Last edited by Egipps; 17th Aug 2017 at 09:36.
From an SAAA email today:
AirVenture 2017
Is it On? Or is it Not?
Dear Members and fellow aviators,
Airventure Australia is it On or Off - SAAA don't know.
SAAA have done our very best to address our Corporate governance and protect our Members interests.
SAAA are listed on the Airventure Australia website as an event organiser along with RAAus, but SAAA are precluded from that role.
SAAA are one of four beneficiaries in the Oz-Kosh Trust.
The Oz-Kosh Trustee is AVA Pty Ltd of whom there is a single shareholder and director, Mr David Young.
The event Organiser is Mr David Young, and he is the only person whom knows.
If you are concerned about confirming your travel arrangements to Narromine please contact Mr David Young for confirmation of the event.
Airventure Australia -INFORMATION
[email protected]
AirVenture 2017
Is it On? Or is it Not?
Dear Members and fellow aviators,
Airventure Australia is it On or Off - SAAA don't know.
SAAA have done our very best to address our Corporate governance and protect our Members interests.
SAAA are listed on the Airventure Australia website as an event organiser along with RAAus, but SAAA are precluded from that role.
SAAA are one of four beneficiaries in the Oz-Kosh Trust.
The Oz-Kosh Trustee is AVA Pty Ltd of whom there is a single shareholder and director, Mr David Young.
The event Organiser is Mr David Young, and he is the only person whom knows.
If you are concerned about confirming your travel arrangements to Narromine please contact Mr David Young for confirmation of the event.
Airventure Australia -INFORMATION
[email protected]
sounds ominous on two fronts:
a) the event going ahead, and
b) the relationship between SAAA and everyone else.
Infighting is a great way to destroy what's left of Australian aviation.
a) the event going ahead, and
b) the relationship between SAAA and everyone else.
Infighting is a great way to destroy what's left of Australian aviation.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in the classroom of life
Age: 55
Posts: 6,864
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Interesting that the author has had a complete turn around where he praised the event and the organiser and promised the event would go ahead after SAAA had sent the hat around to raise funds to under write the show.
What has changed I hear you ask? Rumour has it that SAAA have not only failed to provide promised funding, but have withdrawn financial support from the event.
I know for a fact that many chapters were not even approached. I smell a rat.
Given the last week or so, I would have to question what role the SAAA and the emails author had in the previous debacle.
I leave it up to y'all to join the dots, leopards and spots and all that.
What has changed I hear you ask? Rumour has it that SAAA have not only failed to provide promised funding, but have withdrawn financial support from the event.
I know for a fact that many chapters were not even approached. I smell a rat.
Given the last week or so, I would have to question what role the SAAA and the emails author had in the previous debacle.
I leave it up to y'all to join the dots, leopards and spots and all that.
Infighting is a great way to destroy what's left of Australian aviation.
It really was pathetic and probably lead that association to a sad state from which it never fully recovered.