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Light plane crash near Mt Gambier

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Light plane crash near Mt Gambier

Old 10th Jul 2017, 04:16
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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Respectfully, I've said all I'll say on this. Cheers.
Joseph, don't worry, you fell foul of LB, a master at the art of going on and on and on.

Farmer Joe flying his mate's rellos to the big smoke for a hospital visit is, of course, a complete red herring and irrelevant to the discussion here.
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 05:49
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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Who mentioned: "Farmer Joe flying his mate's rellos to the big smoke for a hospital visit?"

And why would that example be "a complete red herring" and "irrelevant" in a discussion about community service flights?

Farmer Joe may be an Angel Flight pilot. Farmer Joe may have accepted an Angel Flight mission to carry someone who is, coincidentally, a friend's relative.

Your example is not so unusual.

You're merely showing your prejudice.
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 06:55
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=Old Akro;
I might also remind you that only a week or two earlier in nearby Renmark were there also 3 fatalities. Except that there were 2 highly qualified CPL's and a CASA examiner on board.[/QUOTE]

A timely reminder... the aeroplane cares not if you have a RPL, PPL, CPL or ATPL, if you ignore the laws of physics it will quite happily kill you.

The price of safety at any level of licence is the constant exercise of personal responsibility. It's just that sometimes we get our expectations confused with our capabilities and the outcome can be fatal.
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 14:31
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
What is your opinion as to what the minimum experience requirements for community service flights should be, and against what criteria are you measuring adequacy?

It seems you are saying that there are pilots who have a licence that authorises them to carry passengers in private operations, but only their families and friends who - apparently - are competent to, and do, make an assessment of the pilots' professionalism. My long experience is that family and friends simply assume - reasonably - that the pilot knows what he or she is doing, if for no other reason than that most family and friends wouldn't have a clue how to judge otherwise.
It is simple. The pilot needs to be capable,competent and current. One does not embark on a flight outside ones capabilities.
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 15:17
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ravan
A timely reminder... the aeroplane cares not if you have a RPL, PPL, CPL or ATPL, if you ignore the laws of physics it will quite happily kill you.
That's just so true.
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 23:32
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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'flight safety seminars' organised by angel flight/pilot members for pilot members?

there won't be any quantifiable results, but if it makes a pilot take a second look at the weather for example, then it's worth it?
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 23:57
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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flight safety seminars' organised by angel flight/pilot members for pilot members?
Why?? Thats CASA's job, not Angel Flight. Without wishing to be too blunt, the life of an Angel Flight passenger is not worth any more or less than anyone else.

If a pilot is safe for passengers, then he/she is safe for all passengers. If a pilot is not safe, then the CASA licencing / AFR system has failed.
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 00:08
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Whereas the EMS industry has the framework and resources to not only teach their operators about the risk, they can (and have) internally regulated to take the decision making away from the crew regarding "do we go or not"
The EMS operation of which I have some knowledge leaves all the decision making up to the pilot when it comes to the do we go or not. I doubt any other EMS operator is any different. The one thing they do do (at least this particular operator) is follow the rules.

I'd be particularly interested in how the decision making being taken out of the pilots hands works in practise, as you allege takes place. Doesn't happen in this neck of the woods.
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 01:07
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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at least a few aeroclubs i know of offer safety seminars,

just because it's the regulators job, doesn't mean organisations like aeroclub's and AF shouldn't do their bit

I was merely offering a suggestion to counter other suggestions of increased regulation i.e. kneejerk reactions, or 'it happens'
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 03:43
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Supermouse3
...I was merely offering a suggestion to counter other suggestions of increased regulation i.e. kneejerk reactions, or 'it happens'
As we don't yet have an accident report I'm wondering what it is these new regulations will cover...?





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Old 11th Jul 2017, 04:50
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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just the suggestions in previous posts like CPL, IFR etc
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 02:00
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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Reports out.

So are we going to keep defending his actions or admit reality now?

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2017/aair/ao-2017-069/
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 02:10
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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA
The report is not out yet.

The investigation is continuing and will include examination of the following:

- recovered components and available electronic data
- aircraft maintenance documentation
- weather conditions
- pilot qualifications and experience
- coordination and planning of the charity flight
- the use of private flights for the transfer of passengers for non-emergency medical reasons
- similar occurrences.


Investigation: AO-2017-069 - Collision with terrain involving SOCATA TB-10 Tobago, VH-YTM, near Mount Gambier Airport, South Australia, on 28 June 2017





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Last edited by Flying Binghi; 25th Jul 2017 at 03:10.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 02:23
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA
Reports out.

So are we going to keep defending his actions or admit reality now?
Ah to be young and stupid again.

When it's your turn to be lynched by the mob, junior, you'll learn a hard lesson.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 03:36
  #175 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA
This may only be the preliminary report, however I think it's plainly obvious what happened & why it happened. There are no surprises in it.

DF.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 04:00
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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Then you should be lobbying the ATSB to discontinue further investigation, as any further investigation would be a waste of the taxpayers' money.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 04:50
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Desert Flower
This may only be the preliminary report, however I think it's plainly obvious what happened & why it happened. There are no surprises in it.

DF.
Oh, do tell us what is "Plainly obvious" in this preliminary report. Seems to this dumb ol hill farmer me that the report is telling us much as they do at this time of any investigation. i.e, they is looking at pilot qualifications, aircraft components, aircraft maintenance, WX, etc...

"...Several components and documentation were removed from the accident site..."

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...r/ao-2017-069/





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Old 25th Jul 2017, 05:07
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Dear oh dear. The track taken off Ozrunways tells the story. It is obvious that that he was trying to dodge very low cloud and was often boxed in by heavy rain showers. Were there any witnesses that can verify the state of the weather. Unfortunately during my instructing career I have had countless incidences where I have have had to persuade pilots to come into the office for a cuppa while to wait for the weather to clear. The youngish ones will usually accept the offer, but the older ones frequently are less than receptive and require more convincing that the weather is crap. I have used the red button on the bowser to prevent refueling in the past when one pilot was hellbent on taking off into Overcast at 100 feet. He eventually was persuaded that a hotel for the night was the best course of action.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 05:10
  #179 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Then you should be lobbying the ATSB to discontinue further investigation, as any further investigation would be a waste of the taxpayers' money.
No, I want it to go ahead just to see if it proves I am right.

DF.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 05:47
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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Agree with DF. God protect me from ever being as stupid as that pilot.

Simple logic is that if WX was so bad as to require the inbound track and machinations to land, then absent a dramatic improvement in conditions, takeoff under VFR would by definition be stupid.
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