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Light plane crash near Mt Gambier

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Light plane crash near Mt Gambier

Old 28th Jun 2017, 13:51
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via Jabawocky #39:
What? You have not seen idiots arrive in conditions that were nothing short of pharquing stupid before???

Sadly, I have.

The inbound makes the outbound all the more likely.
Hmmm... why so upset with the unfortunate turn of events for those quick to judge, i.e. He had just landed... looks like Jabawocky has yet again given his 'expert' opinion to the media..

Instead of calling the pilot an "idiot" i think we need to see an accident report compiled by trained investigators before we pass judgement on a decent chap that were conducting an Angel Flight.





.
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 14:05
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Brings back memories of the RFDS King Air crash at YMTG years ago when they were going to pick up a young lad to take interstate for a transplant.
The pilot of that flight was very experienced. Dark night final approach in mist. Pilot reported visual but aircraft crashed on final at 3nm. Witness saw the aircraft landing lights on final. ATSB unable to determine cause of that accident. After the ATSB report was published it was revealed that the T-VASIS was previously known to give erroneous indications in similar weather conditions.
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 14:09
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Desert Flower has made one of the few rational posts here. And if you look at the BOM observations at MtGambier today you can pretty much see it. It looks like Fog either formed, or maybe reformed after clearing at about 10:30, then cleared again by 11.

And as for jobsright, or is it jobsworth the AF I that you refer to as Nhil which actually crashed 30km North of Horsham has very little in common with this accident. Drawing a parallel between the 2 is either malicious or plain ignorant.

This is a sad accident. I do not know the pilot and I.m not sure that any of the posters so far do. I don't know if he had a commercial licence or private licence nor if he was VFR or IFR and jumping to conclusions based on predjudice does no one any favours - least of all the image of those posting.

I take on face value the media reports that he was an experienced pilot who flew to MtGambier regularly. He had flown from Adelaide that morning, so should have been familiar with the enroute weather.
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 22:03
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Originally Posted by Flying Binghi
Hmmm... why so upset with the unfortunate turn of events for those quick to judge, i.e. He had just landed... looks like Jabawocky has yet again given his 'expert' opinion to the media..

Instead of calling the pilot an "idiot" i think we need to see an accident report compiled by trained investigators before we pass judgement on a decent chap that were conducting an Angel Flight.





.
Bing Bong,

You MUST be a journalist.

Only a journalist could take something that was said, and then tell the world that something else was said. I think you are the idiot to be frank. Maybe not a cloud ducking, fog bombing idiot, but an idiot all the same.

Go back and read my post in response to yours.

You make the assumption that just because he arrived there and flew off it was clearly fine. How do you make such an assessment? Or are you one of the ATSB experts who can judge things far better than some of us. (By the way, how sure are you I never did one of the ATSB's multi day training courses courses? )

Next, look at the inbound track, hardly looks like a circuit and land let alone an IA of some sort.

Instead of being some self righteous pompous political correctness police, start reading exactly what people say before slagging off at them.
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 22:14
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Originally Posted by Centaurus
The pilot of that flight was very experienced. Dark night final approach in mist. Pilot reported visual but aircraft crashed on final at 3nm. Witness saw the aircraft landing lights on final. ATSB unable to determine cause of that accident. After the ATSB report was published it was revealed that the T-VASIS was previously known to give erroneous indications in similar weather conditions.
My reference to that flight was not in comparison to the reason for the crash, but the fact that they were both medical flights out of the same location.

DF.
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 22:27
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But it goes to show that very experienced commercial pilots in very sophisticated aircraft operated under an AOC are still involved in fatal accidents.

Fortunately the pilot was not coincidentally CVD, otherwise the CVD-industry equivalent of jobsright would use the accident as "evidence" for them to be banned.
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 23:05
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Live weather cams Mt Gambier

I noted yesterday morning that a new set of 4 weathercams from Airservices were live at Mt Gambier and about 5 more locations for the first time. These would have given a very accurate idea of what the conditions were like to the accident pilot had he known that they existed.

Does anyone know when exactly they went live or whether this was announced locally beforehand by the airport operators as it was at YBAF?

It would be helpful if Airservices or the BOM were more forthcoming about when these new services are going live for the first time rather than just leaving them to be noticed incidentally when flight planning or whenever someone has some idle time to surf the net.

Last edited by Possum1; 29th Jun 2017 at 00:11.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 00:24
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Originally Posted by jobsright
Without going into a long reply, unless you were taking off in in an IFR twin turbine with auto feather, I am fairly sure YMTG would have been no go this morning.
Single engine IFR - Instrument Departure: 300' ceiling 2Km vis (AIP ENR 1.5 4.4, 4.4.2) - wether this is below your personal minimums or not is up to you.

I do not know if the pilot had an IR or PIFR (it did come up in conversation once but I cannot remember now what was said) , but I do know the difficulties in getting and maintaining either an IR or PIFR here in SA. Very few people can do the initial training (especially PIFR) and with the new regs it is easier and cheaper to do an IR renewal than a PIFR renewal (you have to do all the AFP's in the aircraft etc.). A lot of people I have spoken too do not want or need a full IR (old CIR) but do want the added safety of a PIFR, and a few have gone to QLD to do it.
When will CAsA realise they are reducing safety by;
- Making it hard for testing officers and flight training
- Increased costs via useless ADS-B (under 10000' private only)
- Increased costs by unrealistic recency requirements
- removing Instrument Approaches from non registered or certified airfields.

CAsA should be doing all it can to encourage private pilots who do a fair bit of cross country flying to do a PIFR, maybe, just maybe in this case it could have saved three lives.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 00:49
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So a fault with the aircraft has been ruled out I gather ?
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 00:55
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Originally Posted by Jabawocky
Bing Bong,

You MUST be a journalist.

Only a journalist could take something that was said, and then tell the world that something else was said. I think you are the idiot to be frank. Maybe not a cloud ducking, fog bombing idiot, but an idiot all the same.

Go back and read my post in response to yours.

You make the assumption that just because he arrived there and flew off it was clearly fine. How do you make such an assessment? Or are you one of the ATSB experts who can judge things far better than some of us. (By the way, how sure are you I never did one of the ATSB's multi day training courses courses? )

Next, look at the inbound track, hardly looks like a circuit and land let alone an IA of some sort.

Instead of being some self righteous pompous political correctness police, start reading exactly what people say before slagging off at them.
"...did one of the ATSB's multi day training courses..."
Did yer get a passing grade?..

...Well there ya go. Suggest we wait for the accident report before passing judgement on an Angel Flight pilot and yer get called an "idiot"..






.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 01:12
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Ideal carburetor icing conditions though, with all that low power approach and taxying
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 01:47
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Originally Posted by Possum1
I noted yesterday morning that a new set of 4 weathercams from Airservices were live at Mt Gambier and about 5 more locations for the first time. These would have given a very accurate idea of what the conditions were like to the accident pilot had he known that they existed.

Does anyone know when exactly they went live or whether this was announced locally beforehand by the airport operators as it was at YBAF?

It would be helpful if Airservices or the BOM were more forthcoming about when these new services are going live for the first time rather than just leaving them to be noticed incidentally when flight planning or whenever someone has some idle time to surf the net.
Wow, this is a really good service and did not even know about it! Most light aircraft would be able access these airborne, and could be a lifesaver for a VFR pilot contemplating a flight in marginal weather, ie, stay on ground, or divert.

Live Weather Cameras | Airservices
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 02:08
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As someone who has been an Angel Flight vollie pilot for more than 10 years I find this news so depressing that I might just pack it in.

I have had cause to cancel at least one flight where the wx was crap at the destination as reported by the contact on the ground there. There are no pressures brought to bear either by AF or the passengers themselves so to anyone else who does these flights, if the forecast is not something you would fly in for an afternoon weekend jolly please do not go.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 02:12
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No one mentioning age? I'm no spring chicken either and I wouldn't like to be flown by a pilot of that age in marginal weather. If he is happy to fly it himself, good luck. If he is providing a service to others then he should think twice about it.

No pressure for the AF to go ahead but I'm wondering if he had his own internal pressure to push on.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 02:19
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Originally Posted by Desert Flower
My reference to that flight was not in comparison to the reason for the crash, but the fact that they were both medical flights out of the same location.

DF.
That doesn't make much sense. Should we ban medical flights from that location?
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 02:27
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No need to 'pack it in' JT,

In a recent newspaper article I was asked to do for 'AF', (Comment News) I made it very clear that, in all of flights I have done I / we always have a 'Plan B', and a few times I have postponed / cancelled flights because of poor weather over the Darling Range, (ex JT) or fog at the wheatbelt destination.

As you have stated, the clients understand that, and there really are no pressures from that side.
I have experienced a few 'disappointments' - usually from the client's travelling companion - not from the clients themselves, as they are aware.

As sad as this event is, I feel that, maybe, a 'self imposed pressure' may have been present, seeing that other aircraft reportedly 'held' and the weather was reportedly 'not good'.

Keep up the 'good work'....

Cheers
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 02:52
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Originally Posted by Ex FSO GRIFFO
No need to 'pack it in' JT,



As sad as this event is, I feel that, maybe, a 'self imposed pressure' may have been present, seeing that other aircraft reportedly 'held' and the weather was reportedly 'not good'.

Keep up the 'good work'....

Cheers
My guess too.

I would also consider the age. Commercial pilots have an effective age limit but I assume because this was not a commercial flight then an age limit would not apply. If he want's to fly at 78 in marginal weather, that's his problem. It shouldn't be someone else's problem.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 03:01
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Single engine IFR - Instrument Departure: 300' ceiling 2Km vis (AIP ENR 1.5 4.4, 4.4.2) - wether this is below your personal minimums or not is up to you.
If you look at the SPECI, he probably had this. If the pilot was IFR

BUT UTR's caution about the location of the automatic WX station location and DF's comment that there can be significant local weather variations should be noted.

The weather started to improve significantly only about 30 min later. Sometimes there is great value in a cup of coffee.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 03:04
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Commercial pilots have an effective age limit
NO.

CASA get more difficult about the medicals and most people as they get older develop less tolerance for being screwed around by CASA. But, thats a different thing.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 03:18
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Originally Posted by RickNRoll
That doesn't make much sense. Should we ban medical flights from that location?
No, that's not what I meant at all.

DF.
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