Light plane crash near Mt Gambier
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DF.
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There's a record on FlightAware for VH-YTM departing from YMTG, but nothing for the inbound flight, however it's there data on FlightRadar24 with data derived from ADSB, which suggests (but does not confirm) the flight was VFR. If you look at the track log's heading/speed/altitude readout for the last ten minutes and note the significant fluctuations especially in the heading changes, it suggests the pilot may have been cutting things very fine in conditions totally unsuitable for VFR flight, and possibly beyond the pilots capabilites.
Last edited by Ovation; 29th Jun 2017 at 06:46.
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Fog
Wonder if weather was a factor? Photo I saw looks like either fog or light misty rain, much like it is in my location at the moment. 
Another AF down.
Factors?
Here in S/West has been lousy for days.
Saw the task come on email decided not to bid for it based on previous cold fronts.
Didn't check MTG WX was it speci?
200 feet for some time and saw the odd approach to land on internet using runway 29?
The age of the pilot should not be an issue, I am 70 yo and have cancelled angel flights due to change in WX or winds or night requirements and I found AF in Brisbane accommodating, never judgemental and bumped the patient up to an RPT.
Airlines in VIC at least have standing order if Carer buys seat patient flies for free.
At least it used to be.
No doubt we will hear about it all in due course, once the accident investigators are finished and I do hope AF survives their 2nd fatal crash.
I saw the effect at Nhill township it had on locals who I knew and it was a sad month for the town.
Now its Mt Gambier.
But the people who fly with us are in our hands as pilots they trust us to do the right thing and no one goes out to crash.
Its what we AF pilots don't need and no doubt CASA will threaten to re regulate like they did last time..
Last edited by ZAZ; 29th Jun 2017 at 07:35.
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If you look at the SPECI, he probably had this. If the pilot was IFR
BUT UTR's caution about the location of the automatic WX station location and DF's comment that there can be significant local weather variations should be noted.
The weather started to improve significantly only about 30 min later. Sometimes there is great value in a cup of coffee.
BUT UTR's caution about the location of the automatic WX station location and DF's comment that there can be significant local weather variations should be noted.
The weather started to improve significantly only about 30 min later. Sometimes there is great value in a cup of coffee.
Thread Starter
So since there seem to be several AF volunteers on here, I have a question. I have always been led to believe from all the ads on TV about Angelflight, that it was only for people who have long distances to travel for medical reasons & have no access to RPT flights. It would appear that this is not so, given that YMTG has RPT flights that this unfortunate girl & her mother could have gone on instead.
So, what is the criteria - or isn't there any?
DF.
So, what is the criteria - or isn't there any?
DF.
Hi DF,
Here's a broad description from the AF site....
"About Angel Flight Australia
Angel Flight is a charity which coordinates non-emergency flights to assist country people to access specialist medical treatment that would otherwise be unavailable to them because of vast distance and high travel costs.
All flights are free and may involve travel to medical facilities anywhere in Australia."
A toll free call on 1300 726 567 will get them in Brissie during office hours for further info.
Cheers
Here's a broad description from the AF site....
"About Angel Flight Australia
Angel Flight is a charity which coordinates non-emergency flights to assist country people to access specialist medical treatment that would otherwise be unavailable to them because of vast distance and high travel costs.
All flights are free and may involve travel to medical facilities anywhere in Australia."
A toll free call on 1300 726 567 will get them in Brissie during office hours for further info.
Cheers
Thread Starter
Hi DF,
Here's a broad description from the AF site....
"About Angel Flight Australia
Angel Flight is a charity which coordinates non-emergency flights to assist country people to access specialist medical treatment that would otherwise be unavailable to them because of vast distance and high travel costs.
All flights are free and may involve travel to medical facilities anywhere in Australia."
A toll free call on 1300 726 567 will get them in Brissie during office hours for further info.
Cheers
Here's a broad description from the AF site....
"About Angel Flight Australia
Angel Flight is a charity which coordinates non-emergency flights to assist country people to access specialist medical treatment that would otherwise be unavailable to them because of vast distance and high travel costs.
All flights are free and may involve travel to medical facilities anywhere in Australia."
A toll free call on 1300 726 567 will get them in Brissie during office hours for further info.
Cheers
DF.
When you live....
So since there seem to be several AF volunteers on here, I have a question. I have always been led to believe from all the ads on TV about Angelflight, that it was only for people who have long distances to travel for medical reasons & have no access to RPT flights. It would appear that this is not so, given that YMTG has RPT flights that this unfortunate girl & her mother could have gone on instead.
So, what is the criteria - or isn't there any?
So, what is the criteria - or isn't there any?
Thread Starter
Thread Starter
People who live outside major cities get no support to get to appointments in the big smoke. Just because there is RPT, most wouldn't be able to afford the cost especially when traveling fortnightly or similar. AF could just stick them on RPT but that really isn't the intent.
DF.
I am not 100% sure, but I think there is a requirement to show that you are not particularly flush for cash before you qualify for an AF. I am not positive that you can just rock up and demand an AF.
It's not entirely true that those in the bush are completely without support for treatment in the big smoke. Your doctor can sign a PATS form when they review you before you travel to the nearest treatment. The Passenger Assisted Transport Scheme will contribute towards petrol if you are driving, a bus fare if that's an option, and as a last resort will fund a seat on an RPT flight unless you are really crook. Usually, anyone accompanying you pays standard rates.
On tomorrow's (Fri, 30/6/2017) RPT flights, the cheapest seat - YMTG / YPAD / YMTG - will cost 432.20 return for one person. The most expensive seats are 960.20 return per person. This is the carrier who has their heart in the country (and their hand in your pocket). Mind you, if you live really remote, like YCBP or YCDU, the most expensive seat purchased at the last minute is over $1k return. Plus credit card fees.
I understand that Angel Flight provide a fabulous alternative - a friendly guy or gal who understands true Australian values contributing the use of their private aircraft to someone who needs help to get health treatment not available locally. I get that, and I like the concept.
However, in reading aviation accident reports for over 20-odd years, one thing has become blindingly obvious to me. There appear to be only 3 ways to contribute to the statistics of GA accident fatalities:
Pilot incapacitation due to medical issues - rare.
Aircraft mechanical failure - slightly more common.
Human factors, including when the skills required exceed the skills available. And this appears to be the single common factor in the majority of GA aircraft accidents. And, in my opinion, this is the single reason why pilots are their own worst enemies. I note that CASA have now mandated that they will not accept hand-Written logs from pilots managing their own diabetes but will now only accept electronic evidence from blood sugar testing devices. Could this possibly be because pilots have been fudging their blood sugar records to continue with their affair with the passion that is aviation?
I don't agree with Jabawocky often, but I do agree with his mantra - Trust the Data.
It's not entirely true that those in the bush are completely without support for treatment in the big smoke. Your doctor can sign a PATS form when they review you before you travel to the nearest treatment. The Passenger Assisted Transport Scheme will contribute towards petrol if you are driving, a bus fare if that's an option, and as a last resort will fund a seat on an RPT flight unless you are really crook. Usually, anyone accompanying you pays standard rates.
On tomorrow's (Fri, 30/6/2017) RPT flights, the cheapest seat - YMTG / YPAD / YMTG - will cost 432.20 return for one person. The most expensive seats are 960.20 return per person. This is the carrier who has their heart in the country (and their hand in your pocket). Mind you, if you live really remote, like YCBP or YCDU, the most expensive seat purchased at the last minute is over $1k return. Plus credit card fees.
I understand that Angel Flight provide a fabulous alternative - a friendly guy or gal who understands true Australian values contributing the use of their private aircraft to someone who needs help to get health treatment not available locally. I get that, and I like the concept.
However, in reading aviation accident reports for over 20-odd years, one thing has become blindingly obvious to me. There appear to be only 3 ways to contribute to the statistics of GA accident fatalities:
Pilot incapacitation due to medical issues - rare.
Aircraft mechanical failure - slightly more common.
Human factors, including when the skills required exceed the skills available. And this appears to be the single common factor in the majority of GA aircraft accidents. And, in my opinion, this is the single reason why pilots are their own worst enemies. I note that CASA have now mandated that they will not accept hand-Written logs from pilots managing their own diabetes but will now only accept electronic evidence from blood sugar testing devices. Could this possibly be because pilots have been fudging their blood sugar records to continue with their affair with the passion that is aviation?
I don't agree with Jabawocky often, but I do agree with his mantra - Trust the Data.
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I don't agree with Jabawocky often, but I do agree with his mantra - Trust the Data.
Human factors, including when the skills required exceed the skills available. And this appears to be the single common factor in the majority of GA aircraft accidents. And, in my opinion, this is the single reason why pilots are their own worst enemies. I note that CASA have now mandated that they will not accept hand-Written logs from pilots managing their own diabetes but will now only accept electronic evidence from blood sugar testing devices. Could this possibly be because pilots have been fudging their blood sugar records to continue with their affair with the passion that is aviation?
And yes the data has no opinion.
AF is an amazing service but this accident highlights one of its biggest limitations.
There is no question that the guys and girls running the show along with the volunteers have everyones best interests and safety as the highest priority. Policies encouraging pilots to cancel flights when they are not comfortable with conditions or the operation are very solid.
However, the human factor in all this is the individual pilot would still feel an obligation to push the boundaries (his/her own limitations) to not disappoint the 'customer'.
What we essentially have is a commercial pressure (though self imposed) on pilots who probably only fly once a week or less, in most cases favourably VMC conditions. Many AF pilots would be instrument rated, however the weekend flyers would still not push their instrument flying skills to the limit on a regular basis and would likely only fly IFR recreationally in conditions that are marginally worse than what one could do under VFR.
Many aircraft used like the one in question would also be somewhat poorly equipped for inadvertent (or intentional) entry into IMC. You could argue that if you are instrument rated, you should be able to safely operate any IFR certified aircraft in IMC. However, I question whether this accident would have occured if the same flight was done in a G1000 (or similar) equipped aircraft.
There is no question that the guys and girls running the show along with the volunteers have everyones best interests and safety as the highest priority. Policies encouraging pilots to cancel flights when they are not comfortable with conditions or the operation are very solid.
However, the human factor in all this is the individual pilot would still feel an obligation to push the boundaries (his/her own limitations) to not disappoint the 'customer'.
What we essentially have is a commercial pressure (though self imposed) on pilots who probably only fly once a week or less, in most cases favourably VMC conditions. Many AF pilots would be instrument rated, however the weekend flyers would still not push their instrument flying skills to the limit on a regular basis and would likely only fly IFR recreationally in conditions that are marginally worse than what one could do under VFR.
Many aircraft used like the one in question would also be somewhat poorly equipped for inadvertent (or intentional) entry into IMC. You could argue that if you are instrument rated, you should be able to safely operate any IFR certified aircraft in IMC. However, I question whether this accident would have occured if the same flight was done in a G1000 (or similar) equipped aircraft.
Many AF pilots would be instrument rated, however the weekend flyers would still not push their instrument flying skills to the limit on a regular basis and would likely only fly IFR recreationally in conditions that are marginally worse than what one could do under VFR.
I note that CASA have now mandated that they will not accept hand-Written logs from pilots managing their own diabetes but will now only accept electronic evidence from blood sugar testing devices. Could this possibly be because pilots have been fudging their blood sugar records to continue with their affair with the passion that is aviation?
First, they came after all those criminal Colour Vision Deficient pilots and now the criminal Diabetics shall be targeted?
Many aircraft used like the one in question would also be somewhat poorly equipped for inadvertent (or intentional) entry into IMC. You could argue that if you are instrument rated, you should be able to safely operate any IFR certified aircraft in IMC. However, I question whether this accident would have occured if the same flight was done in a G1000 (or similar) equipped aircraft.
How on earth can you say something like this??
Do you know the aircraft involved??
If you really think only flat panel cockpits are same for IFR then we'll ground about 90% of our airline fleet.
At this stage there has been no public information about whether the pilot and / or aircraft was instrument rated. Just a lot of conjecture by guys showing their ignorance.
That is why it would be prudent for these pilots who operate AF in their own aircraft to practice their IFR skills regularly on either desk top simulators or arrange for an instrument rating instructor to come with them while they practice instrument flying under the hood.
That is why ALL single pilot IFR pilots should work hard to maintain currency and a SIM, whether desktop or a certified SIM is useful for this.
Casualties from Angel Flights are no less tragic than any others.