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chartering a B737/A320 ?

Old 24th Apr 2017, 05:17
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chartering a B737/A320 ?

reading about Nauru Airlines new flights to Norfolk, got me wondering what a realistic cost to charter a modern B738/A320 with 160-180 seats, not an old 733.

Have seen figures bandied around of from $6000 AU/block hour to $5000 US/block hour(around $6700 AU) including everything, but with basic catering (not including taxes like departure tax which only applies to adults & security charges)

Obviously, sector length comes into play. On longer sectors, shouldn't the cost drop?
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 06:19
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I think if you = or exceed the minimum block hours require each month/year. Then yes you could negotiate a lower block hour on basis of sector length - the trade of may then increase min usage block hours per month/year.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 06:59
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Some extremely basic arithmetic suggests that fuel alone for these types would run to about A$3000/hour, so I suggest the charter rate would be much higher.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 08:36
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That's cheap considering an S76 Sikorsky retails down here crewed for $6k an hour.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 08:52
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Have seen figures bandied around of from $6000 AU/block hour to $5000 US/block hour(around $6700 AU) including everything,
You're dreaming, unless you are talking about an ACMI rate.

If they real figures then they would be operating on very slim margins - a recipe for going broke. As has been pointed out, fuel cost per hour is not cheap.

What exactly is the "everything" supposedly included?
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 09:06
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The company I work for charters a -700 for 5000/block hr in either 144Y or 60J class config.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 10:35
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Originally Posted by Dougie_diesel View Post
The company I work for charters a -700 for 5000/block hr in either 144Y or 60J class config.


More a number I would expect even on average sectors.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 00:50
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An educated guess I would say an ad hoc charter of an A320 would leave you with little change out of 10K/hour, pretty sure a friend of mine said they rent out the Dutch oven (F100) at just over 6K an hour
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 01:14
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F70 and F100 are around $9,000 per/hr AUD and a B737-800 will be anywhere from $10,000 - $12,000 per/hr AUD. This includes crew etc. and may not include any catering.

Where for example the Norfolk Island Government chartering an aircraft each week falls down, is that there are rules regarding selling individual seats on a charter flight. Just ask Tiger Airways about this.

While a charter flight type arrangement might be better suited to this route, because of the rules a RPT carrier needs to be used and have a schedule etc. Which then means the carrier may fly the schedule with less than required loads to either break even or make a profit.

Another question that needs to be asked is, is this route a route which requires a 100 seat plus aircraft for each flight? Going back a number of years now when I had a little involvement with this route, I'd say it isn't. If that is the case then maybe someone like Jetgo may be better suited (not sure of the aircraft performance) to this route?
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 05:49
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Originally Posted by rammel View Post
Another question that needs to be asked is, is this route a route which requires a 100 seat plus aircraft for each flight? Going back a number of years now when I had a little involvement with this route, I'd say it isn't. If that is the case then maybe someone like Jetgo may be better suited (not sure of the aircraft performance) to this route?
Agree. I even thought the E190s that VA fly may be suited for Norfolk. Less seats and lower fuel burn, but im not sure about ETOPS and if they would make alternates etc. Others on here may be able to shed some light.
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Old 26th Apr 2017, 07:31
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Originally Posted by rammel View Post
F70 and F100 are around $9,000 per/hr AUD and a B737-800 will be anywhere from $10,000 - $12,000 per/hr AUD. This includes crew etc. and may not include any catering.

Where for example the Norfolk Island Government chartering an aircraft each week falls down, is that there are rules regarding selling individual seats on a charter flight. Just ask Tiger Airways about this.

While a charter flight type arrangement might be better suited to this route, because of the rules a RPT carrier needs to be used and have a schedule etc. Which then means the carrier may fly the schedule with less than required loads to either break even or make a profit.

Another question that needs to be asked is, is this route a route which requires a 100 seat plus aircraft for each flight? Going back a number of years now when I had a little involvement with this route, I'd say it isn't. If that is the case then maybe someone like Jetgo may be better suited (not sure of the aircraft performance) to this route?
no anyone can sell anyone seats on a charter flight. Tiger example is something completely different. A charter could run BNE/NLK/AKL but it would be domestic BNE/NLK & international NLK/AKL. International charters are a lot easier to organise. Domestic charters mean dealing with CASA.
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Old 26th Apr 2017, 07:32
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Originally Posted by rammel View Post
F70 and F100 are around $9,000 per/hr AUD and a B737-800 will be anywhere from $10,000 - $12,000 per/hr AUD. This includes crew etc. and may not include any catering.
those prices are insane. No one except govts would pay anything like that.

RE fuel, how does it work for international flights no GST on fuel ?
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Old 26th Apr 2017, 08:23
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Ad hock Charter and Block hours will be 2 very different numbers.

Also charter cost of an aircraft within companies (owned by same group) wont give a accurate "charter cost" they could be excessively cheap or expensive depending on an accounting goal.
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Old 26th Apr 2017, 09:48
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This price will include the fuel, crew and check in, ground handling etc. This price will most likely not include catering, passenger taxes etc. which could easily add up to $100-$150 per person per sector.

If this is for a longer term deal the prices may be cheaper, but the price may only drop once a certain number of flights have been completed.

For flights to Norfolk Island to possibly work, if the flight was maybe operated by VA from SYD or BNE but using an Alliance F70 and the flight only operates on a Saturday or Sunday (not both), this may work. It would need to depart at a time that would allow inbound connections from elsewhere. In my experience operating a flight to Norfolk Island from more than one city will end in tears.

While I want to see different operators make a go of things, I can't see Norfolk Island becoming a mainstream tourist magnet anytime soon.

I don't see how the Tiger example is different. Tiger chartered aircraft from VA and then they sold individual seats on the aircraft and this was one of the reasons that the Indonesians stopped them from flying to DPS. Once you begin operating a route to a schedule and have individual passengers paying for tickets the line between charter and RPT can get a little blurred. The five star round the world type charters are an example of this. Where the aircraft is chartered by a company and then individuals pay their money to the company who chartered the flight. By the letter of the law this is not allowed, but occurs on occasions. If you started flying the same charter flight to a schedule each week, then unless it was booked and paid for as an exclusive charter flight then I think it would be looked at closely.
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Old 27th Apr 2017, 05:14
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Originally Posted by rammel View Post
This price will include the fuel, crew and check in, ground handling etc. This price will most likely not include catering, passenger taxes etc. which could easily add up to $100-$150 per person per sector.

If this is for a longer term deal the prices may be cheaper, but the price may only drop once a certain number of flights have been completed.

For flights to Norfolk Island to possibly work, if the flight was maybe operated by VA from SYD or BNE but using an Alliance F70 and the flight only operates on a Saturday or Sunday (not both), this may work. It would need to depart at a time that would allow inbound connections from elsewhere. In my experience operating a flight to Norfolk Island from more than one city will end in tears.

While I want to see different operators make a go of things, I can't see Norfolk Island becoming a mainstream tourist magnet anytime soon.

I don't see how the Tiger example is different. Tiger chartered aircraft from VA and then they sold individual seats on the aircraft and this was one of the reasons that the Indonesians stopped them from flying to DPS. Once you begin operating a route to a schedule and have individual passengers paying for tickets the line between charter and RPT can get a little blurred. The five star round the world type charters are an example of this. Where the aircraft is chartered by a company and then individuals pay their money to the company who chartered the flight. By the letter of the law this is not allowed, but occurs on occasions. If you started flying the same charter flight to a schedule each week, then unless it was booked and paid for as an exclusive charter flight then I think it would be looked at closely.
we've chartered aircraft from OZ to NZ before. Once approved by OZ & NZ authorities, which in some cases is just a formality, we could sell it to whoever we wanted through travel agents or not. There is however a cap of the number of charters in a series that can be operated.

Some airlines will operate a route on a charter basis, before they decide to go scheduled. More paperwork in the latter.

I think you might be getting confused with domestic OZ charters.

Personal taxes are never ever included in cost, as you don't know how many people will buy tickets & whether adults or kids. For international charters no GST applies.
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