Jetstar Cadet mid 2017 Intake
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Everyone who attended the computer assessments should have received an email advising if they were successful and invited to the next phase of process, or if they were non successful in progressing this time.
There are only 40 interview spots and over 400 people applied. But as Frosty states above, check you spam folders, just incase.
There are only 40 interview spots and over 400 people applied. But as Frosty states above, check you spam folders, just incase.
Why do they need to?
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Melbourne
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I really hate to break this to you, but your little parade of superiority is showing yours.
Clearly the world owes you something, but if you have genuine concerns about the cadetship programs used by airlines far and wide, please do try and share them in a clear and concise manner
Clearly the world owes you something, but if you have genuine concerns about the cadetship programs used by airlines far and wide, please do try and share them in a clear and concise manner
Black Belt,
I guess that means there are tens of thousands of undeserving pilots on airline payrolls, world wide.
I wonder? Do they care, or are they happy to have the job.
A logical extension would be for you to suggest that countries that do not have a large GA sector (which is increasingly the case in Australia) or, perhaps large military (again Australia) should not have airlines, because there is no "deserving" pool of "hard yards" pilots.
Tootle pip!!
I guess that means there are tens of thousands of undeserving pilots on airline payrolls, world wide.
I wonder? Do they care, or are they happy to have the job.
A logical extension would be for you to suggest that countries that do not have a large GA sector (which is increasingly the case in Australia) or, perhaps large military (again Australia) should not have airlines, because there is no "deserving" pool of "hard yards" pilots.
Tootle pip!!
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Melbourne
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As l said Chum. You dont deserve to sit in any Airline cockpit with your ridiculous T.T. of 200 hours with your 3 Monkey bars on . Its just laughable !!!
Leave the land of Welfare , $160 Billion dollars p.a. and rising and the tax payer funded cadet courses and get your air-time in a filthy dirt hole, somewhere on the globe.
Oh, that's too hard to achieve, isn't it ?
Leave the land of Welfare , $160 Billion dollars p.a. and rising and the tax payer funded cadet courses and get your air-time in a filthy dirt hole, somewhere on the globe.
Oh, that's too hard to achieve, isn't it ?
The facts are this, a major portion of current crew were hired straight out of the defence forces post war, they're all currently at an age where retirement is closing in quickly. GA in Australia is crippled. After the last GFC there isn't exact a surplus of qualified pilots logging up the hours out there.
Where on earth do you expect these 1500TT pilots to come from? The industry is experiencing rapid expansion, Qantas Group alone have 99 a320 series aircraft on order, who will fly them?
We get it, you put in the hard yards and worked for every one of those hours, but this is a different world than the one you began on. Use those leadership skills, and instead of whinging about the up and comers, give us some guidance, or even better yet, put some of those hard earned dollars on the line and pump them into the GA industry so we can get the start we need.
Black Belt,
What a jaundiced and distorted view you have!!
Airline cadet courses have been around in Australia since at least the very early 1960s.
Since the mid-1960s, cadet courses have provided the bulk of pilots for a large proportion of European and Asian airlines.
As to all those highly experienced ATPLs around ???
There is certainly in Australia a small pool of pilots that, for one reason or another, have ATPLs/ALTPs/ATRs, but in which most airlines have no interest, for a wide variety reasons, in my experience, that are quite valid.
There is a bigger pool of CPL holder who, in my experience, and for a wide variety of reasons, are unemployable outside the lower levels of Australian GA, or even there, in any event a segment of Australian aviation that is shrinking.
Tootle pip!!
PS: I bet you are no fan of the Multi Crew Pilot Licence, MPL??
What a jaundiced and distorted view you have!!
Airline cadet courses have been around in Australia since at least the very early 1960s.
Since the mid-1960s, cadet courses have provided the bulk of pilots for a large proportion of European and Asian airlines.
As to all those highly experienced ATPLs around ???
There is certainly in Australia a small pool of pilots that, for one reason or another, have ATPLs/ALTPs/ATRs, but in which most airlines have no interest, for a wide variety reasons, in my experience, that are quite valid.
There is a bigger pool of CPL holder who, in my experience, and for a wide variety of reasons, are unemployable outside the lower levels of Australian GA, or even there, in any event a segment of Australian aviation that is shrinking.
Tootle pip!!
PS: I bet you are no fan of the Multi Crew Pilot Licence, MPL??
Geez, lay off the turps mate.
Been knocked back from Jetstar I take it?
I've flown with some ATPL holders with more than 1,500hrs, and I can tell you there's no guarantee they're any better than a cadet who's come through the ranks.
Been knocked back from Jetstar I take it?
I've flown with some ATPL holders with more than 1,500hrs, and I can tell you there's no guarantee they're any better than a cadet who's come through the ranks.
There is certainly in Australia a small pool of pilots that, for one reason or another, have ATPLs/ALTPs/ATRs, but in which most airlines have no interest, for a wide variety reasons, in my experience, that are quite valid.
There is a bigger pool of CPL holder who, in my experience, and for a wide variety of reasons, are unemployable outside the lower levels of Australian GA
There is a bigger pool of CPL holder who, in my experience, and for a wide variety of reasons, are unemployable outside the lower levels of Australian GA
To a certain extent I agree with Black belt. I would be willing to bet that a huge number of pilots currently flying for Jetstar would never have become pilots ff they had to take the traditional GA route. It seems to have opened the industry up to a generation spoiled toffee nosed kids who are good at waffling their way through the ridiculous HR recruitment process but could not survive a day in the world where you have to wash and refuel your plane as well as fly it.
Not saying they don't have intelligence and not saying it applies to every one, but there are quite a few spoiled silver spooners in these programs who look down their noses as those in GA when they couldn't hack it themselves.
Join Date: Nov 2012
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Black belt, would you at least concede that the GA industry in Australia is just not big enough to provide the amount of pilots needed by the Australian Airlines.
And to suggest we go overseas, fair enough. But I'm guessing you are the type of person that would be absolutely against low hour pilots coming from overseas to fly low hour GA jobs in Australia.
Globally, I would guess there just isn't enough GA industry to supply the training grounds for the amount of pilots that will be needed world wide.
So whats the solution to that problem?
And to suggest we go overseas, fair enough. But I'm guessing you are the type of person that would be absolutely against low hour pilots coming from overseas to fly low hour GA jobs in Australia.
Globally, I would guess there just isn't enough GA industry to supply the training grounds for the amount of pilots that will be needed world wide.
So whats the solution to that problem?
In any case, even if there was a shortage of pilots with the above requirements, wouldn't it make sense for an airline to start hiring pilots with 700 piston single time rather than 200 hours of piston single?
It still makes no sense in Australia to offer ab initio cadetships because there are thousands of CPLs around the place and probably hundreds who already meet the current direct entry minimums.
If they wanted to crew their aircraft faster, they could offer accelerated cadetships to those with 500-1000 hours of piston single who could complete a course in 3-6 months rather than a full ab inito course taking 12+ months.
Just because they have the hours, doesn't mean they're suitable for an airline
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I think there are two possible reasons for an airline to offer a cadet programme:
1. They can't get enough direct entry applicants who meet their standards, or
2. Cadets are cheaper: can be put on a lower wage; pay for their own training; can be bonded for a number of years; etc.
Both QF and JQ have offered cadet schemes over the years, for whatever reason. If I had to guess, based on respective business models, QF have done it for reason 1, and JQ do it for reason 2.
Cadet programmes typically accept around 1 in 50-100 applicants. This means they get to choose carefully, and assuming their selection process is sufficiently rigorous, are not selecting "silver spooners", rather the best people for the job.
Of course the selection process is not always perfect, and while I've seen plenty of excellent cadets, I've seen a few disasters as well. But the same goes for those who join direct entry, whether they be ex-GA or ex-military.
The other interesting difference is that QF cadets go into the back seat. JQ cadets go into the RHS. If I was a JQ Captain, I would hope that I was on top of my game with a 200 hr pilot in the RHS.
1. They can't get enough direct entry applicants who meet their standards, or
2. Cadets are cheaper: can be put on a lower wage; pay for their own training; can be bonded for a number of years; etc.
Both QF and JQ have offered cadet schemes over the years, for whatever reason. If I had to guess, based on respective business models, QF have done it for reason 1, and JQ do it for reason 2.
Cadet programmes typically accept around 1 in 50-100 applicants. This means they get to choose carefully, and assuming their selection process is sufficiently rigorous, are not selecting "silver spooners", rather the best people for the job.
Of course the selection process is not always perfect, and while I've seen plenty of excellent cadets, I've seen a few disasters as well. But the same goes for those who join direct entry, whether they be ex-GA or ex-military.
The other interesting difference is that QF cadets go into the back seat. JQ cadets go into the RHS. If I was a JQ Captain, I would hope that I was on top of my game with a 200 hr pilot in the RHS.
We have quite a few pilots who were employed (around the 2000hr mark) with frozen ATPL's around the time of cutover where ATPL flight test was required, and the essentially the only reason the company will now perform the ATPL flight test is when upgrading to command. Unless ANY company owns a sim, they are not going to waste resources just so a FO can have a piece of paper. Obviously, any of our FO's can go and pay to use the sim and a flight examiner to do the same at the cost of around $5-10k (correct me if I'm wrong on the price here), but it achieves nothing.
I can fully understand where you're coming from, because I have been there when people say, "oh you haven't got enough multi-crew/jet/space shuttle time," but to make blatantly uneducated remarks shows a complete lack of understanding in how airlines are now both recruiting, and internally function. Additionally, getting on a cadet thread to bash cadets is clearly a waste of everyone's time. Perhaps your complaints would be better directed at the airlines themselves. I'm sure their HR departments would love to hear from you - I can provide some email addresses if required.
At this point in time we don't hire cadets either, so I'll be saving my bananas for myself. Back to the topic at hand.... good luck to those that applied!
Just imagine if the Captain was incapacitated, at night, over the middle of the Pacific
At the same time there are well regarded SE Asian airlines flying heavy metal with hundreds of passengers aboard and whose first officers (second in command) may have only 100 hours or less, total real command time in their log books (none of this PICUS rubbish) along with 3-500 hours TT. No problems with insurance minimums with those operators.
Captains don't have heart attacks in flight very often. Thus, statistically the chances of the low hour second in command assuming control over the Pacific at night with all the other frightening variables, is so low as to be negligible. Insurance companies probably take that into account in setting premiums. That said, there is little doubt that many captains with very low experience first officers foisted upon them are quietly uneasy and would prefer someone in the right hand seat with extensive decision making time in their log book.
Yes PICUS.
So a cadet can join an airline from an integrated course, gets his log book signed as PICUS on every flight as this is what they are told to do by the authority, as Centy said boom 4-5 years later Captain - ZERO real command time.
PICUS would work if run properly and that is a company set procedure, where the Capt is trained for the role. However PICUS means that any input required negates that PICUS sector, back to the first paragraph it means pilots are flying around with not only no real command time but ZERO real PICUS time as well.
Modern aircraft are what saves the moment today, if we were still driving clocks and dials or even first gen airliners would it work? No chance.
Even now just google how many overruns and incidents in a certain part of the world.
No idea how previous cadetships worked but in the past you still needed that magic command time.
So a cadet can join an airline from an integrated course, gets his log book signed as PICUS on every flight as this is what they are told to do by the authority, as Centy said boom 4-5 years later Captain - ZERO real command time.
PICUS would work if run properly and that is a company set procedure, where the Capt is trained for the role. However PICUS means that any input required negates that PICUS sector, back to the first paragraph it means pilots are flying around with not only no real command time but ZERO real PICUS time as well.
Modern aircraft are what saves the moment today, if we were still driving clocks and dials or even first gen airliners would it work? No chance.
Even now just google how many overruns and incidents in a certain part of the world.
No idea how previous cadetships worked but in the past you still needed that magic command time.
Lots of hate towards cadets, including myself, I'm going not going to lie.
Yes they miss out on the 'crucial' GA years but the simple fact is that this is more likely to be a more common occurrence with airline recruitment in the future. The combination of lack of experienced D.Es and cadets being cheaper to hire.
At the end of the day the guys and girls picked have a chance to prove themselves and most of them do. (some are ungrateful)
If I were offered one years back I would have taken it, simply its the fastest way to an airline/jet. Most of us would.
Yes they miss out on the 'crucial' GA years but the simple fact is that this is more likely to be a more common occurrence with airline recruitment in the future. The combination of lack of experienced D.Es and cadets being cheaper to hire.
At the end of the day the guys and girls picked have a chance to prove themselves and most of them do. (some are ungrateful)
If I were offered one years back I would have taken it, simply its the fastest way to an airline/jet. Most of us would.
Lots of ignorance towards cadets here:
Cadet courses are made up of people with a variety of ages, backgrounds and life experiences. Some have had substantial second careers before starting one in aviation, and some cadets have been well into their 30's.
Nope, plenty of RPT Captains flying in Oz and worldwide for decades who's first command hours beyond CPL training were as Captains of an RPT jet.
Nope, almost all first world countries (apart from the US) put cadets into the right hand seat of jets and have been doing so for decades.
That's more to do with culture and regulation rather than how a pilot enters the airline. You'll also find a lot of those pilots as well (I assume you mean Asia) have come from the military.
The same can be said for direct entry pilots. Apart from possibly one airline in Australia which might (I'm not sure) put cadets on a slightly reduced wage for a few years initially, then onto full pay, almost all other airlines have the same T&C's for cadets and DE. And doesn't the payment for the cadet's training go to the flying school not the airline?
Do you have any evidence for that, or is that just because of stereotypical prejudices? It might benefit you to speak to some cadets, and actually see some of personal sacrifices and efforts they've made toward a flying career. Just because you've got a CPL and some flying hours doesn't mean you're suited for an airline.
No idea how previous cadetships worked but in the past you still needed that magic command time.
When a 200 hr T.T. cadet is placed straight into the RHS, thats 3rd world standards.
Even now just google how many overruns and incidents in a certain part of the world.
2. Cadets are cheaper: can be put on a lower wage; pay for their own training; can be bonded for a number of years; etc.
I would be willing to bet that a huge number of pilots currently flying for Jetstar would never have become pilots ff they had to take the traditional GA route. It seems to have opened the industry up to a generation spoiled toffee nosed kids who are good at waffling their way through the ridiculous HR recruitment process but could not survive a day in the world where you have to wash and refuel your plane as well as fly it.
Last edited by dr dre; 14th Nov 2017 at 23:22.