Australia - Student VFR Entry to ADL CTR
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Expert evidence was given by a person who has held pilots licenses since 1979 and Professional Pilotingqualifications since 1986. He was a member of the CASA Flight Training Panelwhich developed policy on behalf of CASA from 2008 through 2011. He was a ChiefFlight Instructor from 1999 through 2012 and delegate of the Minister forAviation under the Civil Aviation Act from 2000 through 2014. Hewas a CASA approved flight testing officer from 1999 through 2014. Approvalsheld included multi-engine aircraft, under both VFR and IFR, initial issue andrenewals for Commercial Pilots and instrument ratings.
Sorry "tunnel" was my word for the area under the cloud and above the windfarm when transiting Palmer over the ranges.
Sorry "tunnel" was my word for the area under the cloud and above the windfarm when transiting Palmer over the ranges.
How much is the "expert" being paid? I presume he is freelance now?
Kaz
Student VFR Entry to ADL CTR I am a solicitor for a community group in a planning appeal against a windfarm. Their Ambidgi expert, Ian Jennings, has given evidence that an alternate route from Parafield to Murray Bridge is available which tracks over the top of ADL and that the student at straight and level flight or first NAV level can transit the area by issuing a general broadcast call without pre-clearance. It sounds bizarre to me but I have not witness to put up against it.
Edit: Sorry, is the expert trying to say there is an alternative route to the one I described above? There is nothing that transits overhead ADL that doesn't require a clearance. On the other hand, depending on the size of the wind farm, I'd suggest the alternative route is just the same as the primary one but you go around the wind farm.
The town of Palmer is under the 4,500' step and a long way from the 2,500' step. If a wind farm in that area can't be overflown or flown around due cloud, I wonder whether it's adequately safe for VFR, wind farm or not.
But can we get one thing straight, Suastiastu? Where, precisely, is the wind farm in question proposed to be built? I'm getting the faint whiff of the safety of air navigation being used by NIMBYs as their 'heartfelt' objection to the proposal. But I may be being unkind.
But can we get one thing straight, Suastiastu? Where, precisely, is the wind farm in question proposed to be built? I'm getting the faint whiff of the safety of air navigation being used by NIMBYs as their 'heartfelt' objection to the proposal. But I may be being unkind.
Last edited by Lead Balloon; 19th Apr 2017 at 12:41.
But can we get one thing straight, Suastiastu? Where, precisely, is the wind farm in question proposed to be built? I'm getting the faint whiff of the safety of air navigation being used by NIMBYs as their 'heartfelt' objection to the proposal. But I may be being unkind.[/QUOTE]
Well nailed, Lead Balloon.
Well nailed, Lead Balloon.
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Its on the eastern range from the level of Cambrai to South of Palmer (the latitude of Mt Beevor).
NIMBY's can use any item in the development plan criteria, that's why people have objection rights in respect of development in their area. Its particularly important for those with their own airstrips or who conduct arial agricultural activities or recreational pilots.
The evidence we presented says its less safe VFR with a windfarm in that it becomes impassible without medium to high risk. The scope for VFR transit gets 540ft less headroom or groundroom and in October to May that's a problem with the normal cloudbase.
NIMBY's can use any item in the development plan criteria, that's why people have objection rights in respect of development in their area. Its particularly important for those with their own airstrips or who conduct arial agricultural activities or recreational pilots.
The evidence we presented says its less safe VFR with a windfarm in that it becomes impassible without medium to high risk. The scope for VFR transit gets 540ft less headroom or groundroom and in October to May that's a problem with the normal cloudbase.
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My bad. Two experts, us and them. Our man says no alternate route for ab initio level straight nav on the VFR route without economic fallout for flight schools.
Their bloke responded with "they can get Adelaide CTR clearance and go through there or go the danger zone on a general broadcast call." To be honest, it was a bit unclear in response. Some people don't communicate clearly on topic and need straight and level communication training.
Their bloke responded with "they can get Adelaide CTR clearance and go through there or go the danger zone on a general broadcast call." To be honest, it was a bit unclear in response. Some people don't communicate clearly on topic and need straight and level communication training.
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"General broadcast call without pre-clearance" sounds like complete garbage to me.
I would imagine at most times of a weekday you would have 3 chances of getting a clearance. None, Buckley's and bugger all. Is it pretty quiet there on the weekends?
103 turbines seems a pretty big project, and they usually string them out along the high ground. What are the dimensions?
I would imagine at most times of a weekday you would have 3 chances of getting a clearance. None, Buckley's and bugger all. Is it pretty quiet there on the weekends?
103 turbines seems a pretty big project, and they usually string them out along the high ground. What are the dimensions?
So your man admits there is an alternate route that's safe. It's not a safety issue at all but an economic one that has zero impact on the NIMBYs. If conditions aren't suitable for VFR flight along a chosen route you fly elsewhere or stay on the ground, I think you'll have to try again.
I think the crux of this is that to the 'reasonable' person on the street, a wind farm sounds like it might be a hazard to air navigation.
In reality though, I firmly believe (with a good background in low-level ops to back me up), they are some of the least hazardous structures you could name - big, obvious, easily avoided.
If you're flying VFR, you will be able to see a wind farm. In marginal conditions, you'll still be able to see a wind farm, much more so than you would a set of high tension power lines.
This is definitely a NIMBY argument, and you probably wouldn't be doing your job if you didn't try to squeeze as much out of it as you can, Suasiastu, but it's really a bull**** premise.
In reality though, I firmly believe (with a good background in low-level ops to back me up), they are some of the least hazardous structures you could name - big, obvious, easily avoided.
If you're flying VFR, you will be able to see a wind farm. In marginal conditions, you'll still be able to see a wind farm, much more so than you would a set of high tension power lines.
This is definitely a NIMBY argument, and you probably wouldn't be doing your job if you didn't try to squeeze as much out of it as you can, Suasiastu, but it's really a bull**** premise.
In marginal VFR it may actually be a helpful navigation aid.
I remember in NSW years ago they put in a windfarm near Crookwell, what used to be a great waypoint for checking student's DR nav skills, became too easy as you could see the windfarm from great distances away and they would just aim at it defeating the whole point
I remember in NSW years ago they put in a windfarm near Crookwell, what used to be a great waypoint for checking student's DR nav skills, became too easy as you could see the windfarm from great distances away and they would just aim at it defeating the whole point
Suastiastu
If you look at the Adelaide Visual Terminal Chart, you will see some purple dots connecting Port Noarlunga to Strathalbyn. About 4 nautical miles east of Port Noarlunga there is a red box with the following text in red: CAUTION. MARKED UNLIT POWER LINES 500FT AGL.
If it's good enough for power lines...
If you look at the Adelaide Visual Terminal Chart, you will see some purple dots connecting Port Noarlunga to Strathalbyn. About 4 nautical miles east of Port Noarlunga there is a red box with the following text in red: CAUTION. MARKED UNLIT POWER LINES 500FT AGL.
If it's good enough for power lines...
