Newly minted PPL out of Archerfield
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Newly minted PPL out of Archerfield
Received my Part 61 PPL(A) from CASA on Monday.
Talk about mixed feelings. Achieved something I've always wanted and promised myself I would do, but now feel like I'll never be able to fully utilise it. Furthermore, the GA community at Archerfield (and it seems other Metro GA aerodomes), is largely dead.
I started at the RQAC at the end of 2015 and that wasn't hugely "clubby" then. And then they went bankrupt. After that I found another place to continue and concentrated on finishing. Now that I've done I cannot find anything around there remotely social.
Also, my ambition to try and find ways to make things more affordable seems to have been futile. I now calculate a the maximum hours I can afford to fly a year under the cheapest scheme I found is 15. Kinda sad (and probably somewhat unsafe).
Many have talked about GA->RAAus conversions as a cheaper path, but max 2 POB and in reality 1. What is so recreational about going solo? And the price reduction (relative to the C172 syndicate I've enquired in at Archerfield) is modest. And I _still_ have to do a conversion course.
So I'm a man who has climbed the mountain only to fall off a cliff onto a sinking ship.
Talk about mixed feelings. Achieved something I've always wanted and promised myself I would do, but now feel like I'll never be able to fully utilise it. Furthermore, the GA community at Archerfield (and it seems other Metro GA aerodomes), is largely dead.
I started at the RQAC at the end of 2015 and that wasn't hugely "clubby" then. And then they went bankrupt. After that I found another place to continue and concentrated on finishing. Now that I've done I cannot find anything around there remotely social.
Also, my ambition to try and find ways to make things more affordable seems to have been futile. I now calculate a the maximum hours I can afford to fly a year under the cheapest scheme I found is 15. Kinda sad (and probably somewhat unsafe).
Many have talked about GA->RAAus conversions as a cheaper path, but max 2 POB and in reality 1. What is so recreational about going solo? And the price reduction (relative to the C172 syndicate I've enquired in at Archerfield) is modest. And I _still_ have to do a conversion course.
So I'm a man who has climbed the mountain only to fall off a cliff onto a sinking ship.
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First of all get away from YBAF. Hire costs are insane there.
Congratulations.
1. For a newly-minted PPL, there are pleasant little challenges of flying in the benign morning conditions in SEQ by going to the local breakfasts, namely the Straddie Fly-in Breakfast(Dunwich), Watts for Breakfast(Watts Bridge) and for a bit more of a challenge(and expense), Angelfield Fly-in Breakfast up at Murgon. There are plenty of pilots who fly to these airfields solo and have a good time meeting people there. Details at aeroclub.com.au.
As a new pilot you need flying and navigational practice by yourself without the distraction of passengers or jockeying for position in a swarm all following the lead plane i.e. the one who can navigate and is actually following a flight plan!
2. Find or have an aviation-minded wife/partner who has a job and who will willingly pay half the costs.
3. Buy a cheap rental property in an attractive nearby country town(with runway), which will rent out at $500/week(no, I'm not saying where!) and when it is occasionally vacant, fly there to do some maintenance on your property and claim the flying costs to this destination on your taxable income(negative gearing).
A few years down the track, when you have enough equity in your loan on this property, have it revalued and borrow the required amount to purchase your first plane - I would recommend very basic entry level GA no older than the 1970s.
4. If you live near Archerfield, stay there and suffer the higher costs. The distances some pilots are driving to their pride and joy parked at other airports are ridiculous. We live 10 minutes drive from YBAF and are prepared to put up with the higher costs for the convenience(for now).
If you live on the Northside, Caboolture or Redcliffe are the way to go. For a new pilot, the more benign into-wind runways at YCAB might be better as, having learnt at YBAF, you won't have a lot of cross-wind landing/take-off experience that is required often at YRED.
1. For a newly-minted PPL, there are pleasant little challenges of flying in the benign morning conditions in SEQ by going to the local breakfasts, namely the Straddie Fly-in Breakfast(Dunwich), Watts for Breakfast(Watts Bridge) and for a bit more of a challenge(and expense), Angelfield Fly-in Breakfast up at Murgon. There are plenty of pilots who fly to these airfields solo and have a good time meeting people there. Details at aeroclub.com.au.
As a new pilot you need flying and navigational practice by yourself without the distraction of passengers or jockeying for position in a swarm all following the lead plane i.e. the one who can navigate and is actually following a flight plan!
2. Find or have an aviation-minded wife/partner who has a job and who will willingly pay half the costs.
3. Buy a cheap rental property in an attractive nearby country town(with runway), which will rent out at $500/week(no, I'm not saying where!) and when it is occasionally vacant, fly there to do some maintenance on your property and claim the flying costs to this destination on your taxable income(negative gearing).
A few years down the track, when you have enough equity in your loan on this property, have it revalued and borrow the required amount to purchase your first plane - I would recommend very basic entry level GA no older than the 1970s.
4. If you live near Archerfield, stay there and suffer the higher costs. The distances some pilots are driving to their pride and joy parked at other airports are ridiculous. We live 10 minutes drive from YBAF and are prepared to put up with the higher costs for the convenience(for now).
If you live on the Northside, Caboolture or Redcliffe are the way to go. For a new pilot, the more benign into-wind runways at YCAB might be better as, having learnt at YBAF, you won't have a lot of cross-wind landing/take-off experience that is required often at YRED.
Last edited by Possum1; 16th Mar 2017 at 00:35.
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I can certainly understand where you are coming from.
I learnt to fly at an Aero Club, back in the days when they were a social place as well as flight training. You used to wander out there on the weekend and there was always a few there. I go back to my home town and they are still doing the same, although due cost the numbers are low.
They make a plan to visit an airstrip, fly to an event, etc as a group, have a beer when they get back.
I'm now with an Aero Club with no planes, no training and until recently, no Clubhouse.
The new Clubhouse only opens for meetings. There's no social side to it although there may be 200+ members. (Aircraft and Hangar owners must be members).
So there is no where to meet up (and then decide to fly to a nearby field together etc.)
A real shame.
Your best bet is Buy into a LSA Syndicate. I'm in one myself and its the cheapest flying you will get if planning on doing a few hours a year.
Some syndicates require a minimum number of hours.
If you only plan on doing a few hours a year, hiring an aircraft would be best.
Unfortunately because of the present 600KG limit, LSA aren't quite the same as slightly heavier built GA aircraft (C172), but its a price you have to pay for lower cost flying ($300 per hour for a C172).
There are LSA aircraft available in Syndicates at the present time in the Brisbane area.
I learnt to fly at an Aero Club, back in the days when they were a social place as well as flight training. You used to wander out there on the weekend and there was always a few there. I go back to my home town and they are still doing the same, although due cost the numbers are low.
They make a plan to visit an airstrip, fly to an event, etc as a group, have a beer when they get back.
I'm now with an Aero Club with no planes, no training and until recently, no Clubhouse.
The new Clubhouse only opens for meetings. There's no social side to it although there may be 200+ members. (Aircraft and Hangar owners must be members).
So there is no where to meet up (and then decide to fly to a nearby field together etc.)
A real shame.
Your best bet is Buy into a LSA Syndicate. I'm in one myself and its the cheapest flying you will get if planning on doing a few hours a year.
Some syndicates require a minimum number of hours.
If you only plan on doing a few hours a year, hiring an aircraft would be best.
Unfortunately because of the present 600KG limit, LSA aren't quite the same as slightly heavier built GA aircraft (C172), but its a price you have to pay for lower cost flying ($300 per hour for a C172).
There are LSA aircraft available in Syndicates at the present time in the Brisbane area.
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Try some other places. Take a nice country drive up to Toowoomba and check out the Darling Downs Aero Club which does have a number of aircraft to hire, training and club events (night flying, competitions, fly-aways) if that is what you are looking for. You could meet other pilots to do trips with and each pay for a leg of the flying. Other places to try would be Sunshine Coast, Caboolture or Northern Rivers at Lismore.
There are plenty of breakfasts etc on so maybe convince your friends to cost share with you to go to Straddie or Watts Bridge.
There are plenty of breakfasts etc on so maybe convince your friends to cost share with you to go to Straddie or Watts Bridge.
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I briefly had similar thoughts and a 'what next' feeling when I finished my PPL training but just keep finding excuses to fly and the social aspect will follow.
You'll probably find your friends outside of flying will be keen to be involved (just make sure they understand the day out is contingent on adequate weather! Most do and those that don't aren't worth having along anyway...) A flying holiday trip is awesome too.
Also, have a think about your next rating. Not wanting to sound condescending at all but you haven't quite climbed the mountain yet! The next bit of your climb will be just as much fun as the early training 👍
You'll probably find your friends outside of flying will be keen to be involved (just make sure they understand the day out is contingent on adequate weather! Most do and those that don't aren't worth having along anyway...) A flying holiday trip is awesome too.
Also, have a think about your next rating. Not wanting to sound condescending at all but you haven't quite climbed the mountain yet! The next bit of your climb will be just as much fun as the early training 👍
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I wouldn't be put off too much about RAAus only because of 2POB.
You may take a few friends and relatives up now you can (new PPL), but I wouldn't expect them to be regular Paxs with you. Certainly not sharing the cost.
Unless you expect to fill a 4 seater to the V8 Supercars or Sporting events, (in which case you must plan to get there a few days in advance, or they will not be happy after buying tickets, when your stuck on the ground half way there.
You are more likely to get Paxs (interested in flying away and sharing costs), that are other pilots. (Usually Aero Club Friends).
Well that was my experience anyway.
Do a few hours in GA, but consider RAAus if you want to fly more than a 'few' hours on your budget. IMHO.
You may take a few friends and relatives up now you can (new PPL), but I wouldn't expect them to be regular Paxs with you. Certainly not sharing the cost.
Unless you expect to fill a 4 seater to the V8 Supercars or Sporting events, (in which case you must plan to get there a few days in advance, or they will not be happy after buying tickets, when your stuck on the ground half way there.
You are more likely to get Paxs (interested in flying away and sharing costs), that are other pilots. (Usually Aero Club Friends).
Well that was my experience anyway.
Do a few hours in GA, but consider RAAus if you want to fly more than a 'few' hours on your budget. IMHO.
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Do a few hours in GA, but consider RAAus if you want to fly more than a 'few' hours on your budget. IMHO.
So there is at least one syndicate with a couple of C172s out of Archerfield which has a similar hire rate per hour but with a fair bit higher ongoing costs (more like $1300 pa instead of $200). But is actual GA and you can take 3 moderate mass pax (4 with reduced fuel).
So it's all not so straight-forward for me to understand.
Also, have a think about your next rating.
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You lot really are a bunch of whingers.
OK, well if people are not prepared to drive for an hour or so for a club atmosphere, good flying and cheaper prices, either stay at Archerfield and suck it up, or hire an expensive aircraft from Archerfield to fly to another location (Toowoomba, Sunshine Coast, Caboolture), then hire a cheaper aircraft there, fly around, do the club things, and fly the more expensive one back to Archerfield.
Of course that is ludicrous, expensive, and would take longer to get to Archerfield, preflight, fly to another location, tie down etc than it would be to drive!!!
Consider yourselves blessed you are in that region, not in Sydney, where driving to Bankstown or Camden can take a good two hours each way in heavy traffic from Sydney suburbs, and there are no other viable options.
OK, well if people are not prepared to drive for an hour or so for a club atmosphere, good flying and cheaper prices, either stay at Archerfield and suck it up, or hire an expensive aircraft from Archerfield to fly to another location (Toowoomba, Sunshine Coast, Caboolture), then hire a cheaper aircraft there, fly around, do the club things, and fly the more expensive one back to Archerfield.
Of course that is ludicrous, expensive, and would take longer to get to Archerfield, preflight, fly to another location, tie down etc than it would be to drive!!!
Consider yourselves blessed you are in that region, not in Sydney, where driving to Bankstown or Camden can take a good two hours each way in heavy traffic from Sydney suburbs, and there are no other viable options.
Agree VAG277.
Another point is that the only entity who would consider renting a plane to our "newly-minted PPL" holder with nil hours on his licence, is the flying school he got it from at Archerfield.
I can't see many(if any) aircraft owners lining up to rent their plane to such a low-time pilot for a little while yet.
Another point is that the only entity who would consider renting a plane to our "newly-minted PPL" holder with nil hours on his licence, is the flying school he got it from at Archerfield.
I can't see many(if any) aircraft owners lining up to rent their plane to such a low-time pilot for a little while yet.
I can't see many(if any) aircraft owners lining up to rent their plane to such a low-time pilot for a little while yet.
They get to know you and understand your abilities and ambitions, and you benefit from the mentoring of others who have been there, done that.
Better yet - Move to TWB. Great little airfield and the place has a whole new international airport minutes down the road. One of the few greeny free places in Australia with any brains left..
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Which is all the more reason to get involved in a social setting with other flyers and their partners.
Last edited by Possum1; 18th Mar 2017 at 00:43.
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Re 'next rating'
Yes, my suggestions didn't address the financial aspects... Sorry!
Just an idea though - if you were to plug away slowly at something like Aeros/Tailwheel/CSU Retract then you could do one or two hrs a month and be safe (dual) and then keep learning and having fun. Of course, you'll take a bit more time but if the idea of the excercise is to fly then that's fine.
Re Night VFR - have a chat to people around Brisie before you pull the trigger there as where I fly (Adelaide based) there is a large portion of the year where night VFR isn't that practical due weather. Having said that, doing some night circuits dual is much more fun than sitting at home watching yet another B grade reality TV show
Yes, my suggestions didn't address the financial aspects... Sorry!
Just an idea though - if you were to plug away slowly at something like Aeros/Tailwheel/CSU Retract then you could do one or two hrs a month and be safe (dual) and then keep learning and having fun. Of course, you'll take a bit more time but if the idea of the excercise is to fly then that's fine.
Re Night VFR - have a chat to people around Brisie before you pull the trigger there as where I fly (Adelaide based) there is a large portion of the year where night VFR isn't that practical due weather. Having said that, doing some night circuits dual is much more fun than sitting at home watching yet another B grade reality TV show
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OP, you have had the same whinge on 3 different sites now I think. How did you get all the way to PPL without figuring this out already?
There have been a lot of good suggestions so far. We all face the same issues, we make a plan and mostly save as much money as we can to fly.
The CPL's often have it much harder and they still somehow succeed.
There have been a lot of good suggestions so far. We all face the same issues, we make a plan and mostly save as much money as we can to fly.
The CPL's often have it much harder and they still somehow succeed.