Avalon Airshow 3-5 March 2017
Oshkosh is directed at GA. Avalon is not. A comparison is like comparing apples and oranges.
Some USAF guys told me the US shows they go to are "airport" shows, not national events. They were impressed with the numbers at Avalon. They don't go to Oshkosh.
Some USAF guys told me the US shows they go to are "airport" shows, not national events. They were impressed with the numbers at Avalon. They don't go to Oshkosh.
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can see where Down and Welded is coming from, but isn't it pretty much 'horses for courses'..? There's no doubt that Avalon has a certain 'sameness' about it every time, but I mainly go to see the military jets get put through their paces, as I never get sick of seeing that and it's the only chance to see them up so close. I still get excited watching them even at my age (yeah I know, I need to get a life!). Some of the other stuff is a bit 'ho-hum' but that gives you a chance to wander around and be entertained by the likes of the pretentious wankers getting a guided tour of a G650, (as if they're actually going to buy one - I mean seriously, as if anyone who's in the market for one of these is going to inspect one & buy it on the spot at Avalon).
If you don't like Avalon, some of the other smaller airshows are also worth going to like Tyabb, and also Temora when they are on.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Avalon doesn't satisfy everyone, but judging by the size of the crowds that turn up every time its on, there are plenty of people who still like it. For some, especially those looking for heaps of GA stuff, its not so good.
For GA buffs, there's no doubt Oshkosh is the pinnacle. Hopefully I can get over there to witness it 1st hand while I'm still upright.
PS - fl610 Dear God, nooooo! Who in their right mind would want to watch 5 sets of women's tennis! I'd rather pay them the extra money to NOT play 5!
If you don't like Avalon, some of the other smaller airshows are also worth going to like Tyabb, and also Temora when they are on.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Avalon doesn't satisfy everyone, but judging by the size of the crowds that turn up every time its on, there are plenty of people who still like it. For some, especially those looking for heaps of GA stuff, its not so good.
For GA buffs, there's no doubt Oshkosh is the pinnacle. Hopefully I can get over there to witness it 1st hand while I'm still upright.
PS - fl610 Dear God, nooooo! Who in their right mind would want to watch 5 sets of women's tennis! I'd rather pay them the extra money to NOT play 5!
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gods Country
Age: 53
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE Traffic Jams. In 2009 I flew to Melbourne, stayed in the city and hired a car to get to Avalon. This year I flew to Melbourne, got an Uber to my hotel in North Melbourne, tram to Southern Cross and took the train and shuttle bus to the airshow. MUCH easier option and much quicker to get there and back!
rjtjrt and bentleg--in their own ways--have missed my point. rjtjrt, re-read my 4th paragraph (if you want to... really, it doesn't matter). I totally understand about population comparisons and the critical mass thingy. And of course, I'm not suggesting that Avalon could compete as a GA spectacle with the likes of Oshkosh. What I'm trying to articulate is [1] Avalon, as a regular public event is too much the same over time. The organisers should not be relying on the first-time attendance of excited dads and their awestruck kids to measure their public success. They need to add new displays each year--and not just whiz-bang ones for the awestruck kids--and find ways to get regional countries to participate. [2] Picking up that last comment, it may not be helpful to market yourself as the 'Australian' international Airshow. After all, what other countries that conduct internationally-known airshows jam their nationality down everyones throat? ...this being the point missed by rjtjrt. If you were the chief of the Indonesian or Malaysian Air Force might you not feel more enthusiastic about participating in--for example--an Asia-Pacific Airshow than an Australian one). Why do we not even have, at the very least, active and enthusiastic Kiwi participation? [3] Do we need more professional event organising than we seem to be getting? (Are the Olympics opening and closing ceremonies organised by a geriatric bunch of old athletic has-beens? I don't think so.) [4] Do we need to actively seek out the critiques of attendees without keeling over into a wallowing morass of self-righteous indignation? YES, we do.
Just a very few of my considered thoughts.
Just a very few of my considered thoughts.
the likes of the pretentious wankers getting a guided tour of a G650, (as if they're actually going to buy one - I mean seriously, as if anyone who's in the market for one of these is going to inspect one & buy it on the spot at Avalon).
You wouldn't think they would bring G650's or similar from the US time and time again for no return would you?
Alternatively, think of it this way... why would a company such as Billabong / Quiksilver or any other major clothing brand put a retail store at Times Square NYC where the rent would likely be 100 times the value of their turnover, let alone profit - its product placement and marketing.
Some of the exhibits in the trade hall had some SERIOUS cash behind them, the setup alone many many thousands of dollars let alone rental for the hall space.
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 912
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oshkosh is directed at GA. Avalon is not. A comparison is like comparing apples and oranges.
You can directly compare any airshow on the face of the planet. Australia seems to think itself very special on the aviation front. The backslapping is embarrassing.
At Avalon, I reckon that the RAAF should have simply allowed the kiddies to hold an operational F35A pilot's helmet. For they are really impressive!
(I've heard that they cost around $500k each.)
Your thoughts, junior.VH-LFA?
(I've heard that they cost around $500k each.)
Your thoughts, junior.VH-LFA?
I do wish there was more stuff for the younger kids to be hands on involved in at Avalon. It was being on the wing of a DC-3 at age 6 that ignited the bug in me, and I'll never forget it.
WRT the JSF Helmet, considering the RAAF will only have 72 of them (one for each aircraft), I don't like anyone's chance other than the pilots and ALS crew getting their hands on them! Expensive piece of kit for sure, but when you consider what they can achieve and their cost relative to the entire program, probably worth it. I wonder how operable the aircraft is without it in the event of an inevitable U/S?
WRT the JSF Helmet, considering the RAAF will only have 72 of them (one for each aircraft), I don't like anyone's chance other than the pilots and ALS crew getting their hands on them! Expensive piece of kit for sure, but when you consider what they can achieve and their cost relative to the entire program, probably worth it. I wonder how operable the aircraft is without it in the event of an inevitable U/S?
WRT the JSF Helmet, considering the RAAF will only have 72 of them (one for each aircraft),
Standardising head sizes of all those JSF pilot candidates is going to be quite painful.
I'm sure that was tongue in cheek, but to satisfy your curiosity, the helmets themselves are all the one size, a mold that is individual to the pilot is placed inside the helmet which allows it to fit.
One of the knucks flying the JSFs merrily swung his helmet by the strap as he stood there talking to a few VSOs by the new jet.
I am assuming it wasn't the half million dollar helmet - cos he was looking pretty casual with it!
I am assuming it wasn't the half million dollar helmet - cos he was looking pretty casual with it!
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you were at the 2015 Avalon Airshow you could have trailed a real LM F35 helmet as did I. Not particular well moulded to my own pointy head but a LM rep was there holding it in place helping you get a feel of what it's like to use it - magic carpet ride is an understatement.
Re the the G650, well I had the private tour of the G550 and considering they've sold almost 500 of them I can understand why they keep turning up at Avalon.
Avalon Airshow 2017 was yet another great show, and again I would like to thank the participants, helpers and organisers for making it so.
Re the the G650, well I had the private tour of the G550 and considering they've sold almost 500 of them I can understand why they keep turning up at Avalon.
Avalon Airshow 2017 was yet another great show, and again I would like to thank the participants, helpers and organisers for making it so.
My 4th and last Avalon. Why? Because it's too much of the same (display-wise) and because it seems unable to attract even near-foreign display interest. In 2015 I think I recall even the Singaporeans flew. This year, not (at least on Friday). Both NZ and Canadian defence forces represented by C130 static displays. Even NZ?? Come on!
The F35s arrived, flew a couple of breaks, and landed. Lots of PA hype, but really, it was just another fast jet... with its cockpit canopy back-to-front. The Roulettes canned themselves due to a stiff breeze.
Uncle Sam's trusty Bone and KC135 were there as expected. The usual U.S. F16 did its usual routine with its excruciating, pre-recorded, media-wonk commentary. Most of the handling displays were the organiser's hardy perennials. Would love to have been surprised by something new. And who was really buying any GA light aircraft, corporate jets, or missiles? Was it at all worthwhile for the companies to have set them up? What meaningful business might have been transacted in those industry marquees? Any? Really? The Australian 'International' Airshow has become cringeworthy and provincial... a national embarrassment.
Is part of the problem that our organisers insist on calling it the Australian International Airshow? Might that bit of self-congratulatory knob-pulling actually put off some of the national forces in our region? There's nothing on the US airshow circuit that is labelled United States International Airshow. Paris is not called the French International Airshow. Farnborough is not presented as the UK International Airshow. Might Avalon be in the death-grip of an overly self-satisfied club of retired Air Marshals, industry sinecurists, and flying club life members? Does the whole thing need a total rethink? I think yes, and yes. For God's sake, yes!
Unless you're Ozbusdriver, there for the first time with a youngster who is going to be blown away by the noise and spectacle such as it is, it has become a bore. As for the High Flyer's Club... totally emblematic of the profiteering rip-off that this event has become.
Have no idea what I'm bitching about? Can't see what my problem is? Never seen a REAL, thrilling, entertaining airshow? You need to see Oshkosh, b'gosh! Until then, you're not on the same page as me.
The F35s arrived, flew a couple of breaks, and landed. Lots of PA hype, but really, it was just another fast jet... with its cockpit canopy back-to-front. The Roulettes canned themselves due to a stiff breeze.
Uncle Sam's trusty Bone and KC135 were there as expected. The usual U.S. F16 did its usual routine with its excruciating, pre-recorded, media-wonk commentary. Most of the handling displays were the organiser's hardy perennials. Would love to have been surprised by something new. And who was really buying any GA light aircraft, corporate jets, or missiles? Was it at all worthwhile for the companies to have set them up? What meaningful business might have been transacted in those industry marquees? Any? Really? The Australian 'International' Airshow has become cringeworthy and provincial... a national embarrassment.
Is part of the problem that our organisers insist on calling it the Australian International Airshow? Might that bit of self-congratulatory knob-pulling actually put off some of the national forces in our region? There's nothing on the US airshow circuit that is labelled United States International Airshow. Paris is not called the French International Airshow. Farnborough is not presented as the UK International Airshow. Might Avalon be in the death-grip of an overly self-satisfied club of retired Air Marshals, industry sinecurists, and flying club life members? Does the whole thing need a total rethink? I think yes, and yes. For God's sake, yes!
Unless you're Ozbusdriver, there for the first time with a youngster who is going to be blown away by the noise and spectacle such as it is, it has become a bore. As for the High Flyer's Club... totally emblematic of the profiteering rip-off that this event has become.
Have no idea what I'm bitching about? Can't see what my problem is? Never seen a REAL, thrilling, entertaining airshow? You need to see Oshkosh, b'gosh! Until then, you're not on the same page as me.
I will also throw in the fact that this event is more of a display of aircraft now than an airshow. Heavy reliance on RAAF, is cheating big time for an "International Airshow".
What is worse, is that if you do some digging, this event, the organisation that runs it and the organisation that owns that company, and many others, claims full charitable status.
On the same webpage, this organisation, claims to be is now run by Aerospace Australia Ltd who says this
Aerospace Australia Limited is also a member of the not-for-profit group headed by Aerospace Maritime and Defence Foundation of Australia Limited.
The corporate purpose of Aerospace Australia Limited is to promote the development of aviation and Australian industrial, manufacturing and information/communications technology resources with respect to aviation, aerospace and defence.
This event is advertised as a public airshow, but ASDU website now denies this.
It goes on to say that all invitees and performances are controlled fully by the RAAF.
Seriously, its become a big con job, funding lavish lifestyles for a select few. Its as dirty as the GP as far as hidden payments go.
To cap it all off, ticket sales are around 12 million, the organisation declares a pretty reliable 15 million in profits.
What Charity does this money go to ?
I am all for it being a Defence Expo, but dont expect the public to pay for it by pretending it is an airshow. You cant have it both ways.
On the same webpage, this organisation, claims to be is now run by Aerospace Australia Ltd who says this
Aerospace Australia Limited is also a member of the not-for-profit group headed by Aerospace Maritime and Defence Foundation of Australia Limited.
The corporate purpose of Aerospace Australia Limited is to promote the development of aviation and Australian industrial, manufacturing and information/communications technology resources with respect to aviation, aerospace and defence.
This event is advertised as a public airshow, but ASDU website now denies this.
It goes on to say that all invitees and performances are controlled fully by the RAAF.
Aerospace Australia Limited is also a member of the not-for-profit group headed by Aerospace Maritime and Defence Foundation of Australia Limited.
The corporate purpose of Aerospace Australia Limited is to promote the development of aviation and Australian industrial, manufacturing and information/communications technology resources with respect to aviation, aerospace and defence.
This event is advertised as a public airshow, but ASDU website now denies this.
It goes on to say that all invitees and performances are controlled fully by the RAAF.
Given on the website the trade days are advertised as "Australian International Aerospace and Defence Exposition" I am not overly surprised there wasn't much GA there.
If the banner said Australian Internation GA expo I may have been quite dissapointed.
https://www.airshow.com.au/airshow2017/index.asp
If the banner said Australian Internation GA expo I may have been quite dissapointed.
https://www.airshow.com.au/airshow2017/index.asp