AVDATA landing fees - automatic from CTAF calls?
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AVDATA landing fees - automatic from CTAF calls?
So, I made a CTAF call transiting overhead Bacchus Marsh on the way somewhere.
AVDATA keep sending bills, not replying to emails.
I'm just wondering if this is common, and whether anybody knows the algorithm they use to determine a landing aircraft vs transiting? Or does it just pick up three letters on the radio and send a bill ?
Yes I've considered & disregarded:
- Using ABC callsign
- Not talking (sometimes unsafe, other times safer!)
I would love to think that mumbling a callsign to defeat voice recognition could help, but again, bad airmanship. Clarity is good.
Anybody else have the same problem & potential solutions that are both safe & professional? Or is this a problem we just need to deal with ... ?
AVDATA keep sending bills, not replying to emails.
I'm just wondering if this is common, and whether anybody knows the algorithm they use to determine a landing aircraft vs transiting? Or does it just pick up three letters on the radio and send a bill ?
Yes I've considered & disregarded:
- Using ABC callsign
- Not talking (sometimes unsafe, other times safer!)
I would love to think that mumbling a callsign to defeat voice recognition could help, but again, bad airmanship. Clarity is good.
Anybody else have the same problem & potential solutions that are both safe & professional? Or is this a problem we just need to deal with ... ?
Normally they should listen for "landed and vacated" call or other call in the circuit indicating an intention to land.
Not much use calling the aerodrome operator, they usually just refer you back to Avdata.
A lot of airports are now installing hi definition cameras that capture an image of the aircraft exiting the runway.
Not much use calling the aerodrome operator, they usually just refer you back to Avdata.
A lot of airports are now installing hi definition cameras that capture an image of the aircraft exiting the runway.
Last edited by YPJT; 31st Jan 2017 at 23:21.
I've discovered that there are lots of places out there that will bill you for merely submitting a NIS plan to go there. There must be some software that polls Flightaware or something. I just tell AVDATA I'm not paying (and then never plan or go to those places again...).
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AVDATA is a privately owned business that appears to have little scruples in regards to making money. Their methodology is to bill first and hope no one complains. We had an AVDATA data recorder at the airfield about 13 years ago, despite telling them not to bill certain aircraft they did anyway, we then discontinued the service but they still sent bills out! (money was sent to someone else, not us, and took a bit of digging to unravel the situation). Took legal action before we finally got rid of them.
It was very disheartening to hear that RA-Aus would no longer pass on accounts for landing fees but recommended registering with AVDATA! Running a private airfield is VERY expensive, council owned ones should be a bit cheaper (no rates etc, more equipment etc) so I do not begrudge landing fees at all, but if I can I prefer to deal directly with the airfield rather than through AVDATA.
It was very disheartening to hear that RA-Aus would no longer pass on accounts for landing fees but recommended registering with AVDATA! Running a private airfield is VERY expensive, council owned ones should be a bit cheaper (no rates etc, more equipment etc) so I do not begrudge landing fees at all, but if I can I prefer to deal directly with the airfield rather than through AVDATA.
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Have received bills for landings from 2000+ miles away for a glider locked in it's trailer!
After half a dozen or so nastygrams despite my emails the letters only stopped when I advised that I copied bills to a member of Airservices board and threatened legal action for harrassment.
After half a dozen or so nastygrams despite my emails the letters only stopped when I advised that I copied bills to a member of Airservices board and threatened legal action for harrassment.
I have had similar with Avdata at Rottnest. I land there several times a month and pay my dues however one time they charged a fee (in this case it is an Island Entry Fee) for a missed approach. After much to-ing and fro-ing and the Rottnest Island Authority insisting that a missed approach counted as "using the island facilities" (where we got into an interesting discussion about who owns the air) I just told Avdata I would sign a stat dec to say I didn't land there that day, that shut them up.
They have to prove you did land there, you don't have to prove you didn't.
There are people out there who think it is clever to use other people's callsigns on the radio.
It's just dishonest.
On the subject of landing fees, Airservices often charge twice for a TNC. if you land outside of half an hour of when the computer estimates you should from your flight plan, you get charged twice. So always check the bills carefully, they try to cheat me out of a few hundred bucks every year.
They have to prove you did land there, you don't have to prove you didn't.
There are people out there who think it is clever to use other people's callsigns on the radio.
It's just dishonest.On the subject of landing fees, Airservices often charge twice for a TNC. if you land outside of half an hour of when the computer estimates you should from your flight plan, you get charged twice. So always check the bills carefully, they try to cheat me out of a few hundred bucks every year.
The precedent has been set many moons ago.
Avdata took a non payer to court...his bills, like those of other users contained all sorts of errors..ie the total amount was incorrect.
The judgement was ..that Avdata must make sure that the Invoice you get is TRUE and CORRECT in all respects.
If they cant do that you dont have to pay, until it is.
And it is not up to you to continually point out their errors..that is their problem to address. And ifthey cant be bothered to do that...then...?
I tried to find out from the local council...always crying poor...how much take Avdata got from the ldg fee, and how much the council got for the airport benefit.
"commercial in confidence" says they.
Avdata took a non payer to court...his bills, like those of other users contained all sorts of errors..ie the total amount was incorrect.
The judgement was ..that Avdata must make sure that the Invoice you get is TRUE and CORRECT in all respects.
If they cant do that you dont have to pay, until it is.
And it is not up to you to continually point out their errors..that is their problem to address. And ifthey cant be bothered to do that...then...?
I tried to find out from the local council...always crying poor...how much take Avdata got from the ldg fee, and how much the council got for the airport benefit.
"commercial in confidence" says they.
When you live....
The precedent has been set many moons ago.
Avdata took a non payer to court...his bills, like those of other users contained all sorts of errors..ie the total amount was incorrect.
Avdata took a non payer to court...his bills, like those of other users contained all sorts of errors..ie the total amount was incorrect.
I suggest they only pay airports when they've been paid
Originally Posted by Jabawocky
Sahgs, call them. A phone call usually gets a result straight away.
Shagpile,
Just ring them and tell them it wasn't your aircraft plus the fact you have sent them emails stating this with no response. I know you shouldn't have to and it is your time, but if you just bin the bills, sooner or later you will need to communicate with them to sort this out. Just ring them and get it over and done with in less than a minute.
Just ring them and tell them it wasn't your aircraft plus the fact you have sent them emails stating this with no response. I know you shouldn't have to and it is your time, but if you just bin the bills, sooner or later you will need to communicate with them to sort this out. Just ring them and get it over and done with in less than a minute.
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My experience is that a phone call usually fixes the problem. What I also can say - nearly every bill from them since owning an aircraft has had to be queried due to errors.