ADSB won't require AsA ground stations. Why are they silent on this?
Thread Starter
ADSB won't require AsA ground stations. Why are they silent on this?
From the General Aviation Operator website:
Aireon announced today the successful launch and deployment of the first ten satellites hosting its space-based automatic dependent surveillance broadcast (ADS-B) system.
Part of the Iridium NEXT satellite constellation, Aireon’s space-based ADS-B network will transform air traffic management capabilities, providing real-time air traffic surveillance and flight tracking across 100 percent of the planet. Currently, more than 70 percent of the earth, including oceanic and remote airspace, has no existing air traffic surveillance.
Aireon congratulates Iridium Communications and its partners, including Thales Alenia Space, Orbital ATK and SpaceX, on a successful first launch of the Iridium NEXT constellation, and looks forward to additional successes.
“Today is a landmark moment in history for global air traffic surveillance, air traffic safety and the aviation industry as a whole,” said Don Thoma, CEO, Aireon.
“This successful first launch brings us one step closer to changing the way the world flies by enabling the ability to track aircraft anywhere on the planet. Once our global ADS-B surveillance service is fully deployed, every ADS-B equipped aircraft can have its precise location accounted for 24/7.”
SpaceX is launching the Aireon ADS-B system with its Falcon 9 re-usable rockets.
Iridium has partnered with SpaceX for a series of seven launches over the course of 18 months out of Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. All 81 Iridium NEXT satellites are equipped with the Aireon payload.
Once in orbit, each satellite will undergo extensive testing by the Iridium team. After approximately 40-60 days Iridium will hand-off the ADS-B payloads to Aireon for verification of on-orbit technical specifications. Aireon will then conduct rigorous independent testing and validation of the space-based ADS-B system for approximately 60 days.
As part of this testing and validation process, Aireon’s ADS-B receivers, manufactured by Harris Corporation, will provide air traffic surveillance data through the Aireon network to the Service Delivery Points (SDPs) at partners NAV CANADA, NATS, ENAV, the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA), as well as the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) William J. Hughes Technical Center in Atlantic City, New Jersey.
“Few technologies exist today that by simply reimagining their implementation can have such a dramatic, positive impact on safety, efficiency and the environment,” said Neil Wilson, president and CEO, NAV CANADA.
“Aireon is poised to revolutionize air traffic management over much of the planet, and we’re looking forward to an aviation industry where everyone will reap the benefits of 100 percent global air traffic surveillance.”
Aireon, formed by Iridium Communications and investors NAV CANADA, ENAV, the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) and Naviair, will be operational in 2018. The advent of space-based ADS-B is expected to show a remarkable ability to increase safety and efficiency while simultaneously reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
The network will also provide a new service known as Aireon ALERT, a free global emergency-aircraft tracking service that will be hosted and operated by the IAA. Earlier this year, Aireon also announced a partnership with FlightAware, and together launched the GlobalBeacon flight tracking service. GlobalBeacon is designed to help airlines comply with the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Global Aeronautical Distress Safety System (GADSS) requirements, and will provide airlines with minute-by-minute flight tracking data.
“Many congratulations to both Aireon and Iridium on the success of their first launch,” said Juliet Kennedy, operations director for NATS. “We look forward to further successes with the remainder of the launch programme and what this will mean for operations over the North Atlantic, the world’s busiest area of oceanic airspace.”
Successful launch for start of worldwide ADS-B system | General Aviation Operator
Aireon announced today the successful launch and deployment of the first ten satellites hosting its space-based automatic dependent surveillance broadcast (ADS-B) system.
Part of the Iridium NEXT satellite constellation, Aireon’s space-based ADS-B network will transform air traffic management capabilities, providing real-time air traffic surveillance and flight tracking across 100 percent of the planet. Currently, more than 70 percent of the earth, including oceanic and remote airspace, has no existing air traffic surveillance.
Aireon congratulates Iridium Communications and its partners, including Thales Alenia Space, Orbital ATK and SpaceX, on a successful first launch of the Iridium NEXT constellation, and looks forward to additional successes.
“Today is a landmark moment in history for global air traffic surveillance, air traffic safety and the aviation industry as a whole,” said Don Thoma, CEO, Aireon.
“This successful first launch brings us one step closer to changing the way the world flies by enabling the ability to track aircraft anywhere on the planet. Once our global ADS-B surveillance service is fully deployed, every ADS-B equipped aircraft can have its precise location accounted for 24/7.”
SpaceX is launching the Aireon ADS-B system with its Falcon 9 re-usable rockets.
Iridium has partnered with SpaceX for a series of seven launches over the course of 18 months out of Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. All 81 Iridium NEXT satellites are equipped with the Aireon payload.
Once in orbit, each satellite will undergo extensive testing by the Iridium team. After approximately 40-60 days Iridium will hand-off the ADS-B payloads to Aireon for verification of on-orbit technical specifications. Aireon will then conduct rigorous independent testing and validation of the space-based ADS-B system for approximately 60 days.
As part of this testing and validation process, Aireon’s ADS-B receivers, manufactured by Harris Corporation, will provide air traffic surveillance data through the Aireon network to the Service Delivery Points (SDPs) at partners NAV CANADA, NATS, ENAV, the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA), as well as the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) William J. Hughes Technical Center in Atlantic City, New Jersey.
“Few technologies exist today that by simply reimagining their implementation can have such a dramatic, positive impact on safety, efficiency and the environment,” said Neil Wilson, president and CEO, NAV CANADA.
“Aireon is poised to revolutionize air traffic management over much of the planet, and we’re looking forward to an aviation industry where everyone will reap the benefits of 100 percent global air traffic surveillance.”
Aireon, formed by Iridium Communications and investors NAV CANADA, ENAV, the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) and Naviair, will be operational in 2018. The advent of space-based ADS-B is expected to show a remarkable ability to increase safety and efficiency while simultaneously reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
The network will also provide a new service known as Aireon ALERT, a free global emergency-aircraft tracking service that will be hosted and operated by the IAA. Earlier this year, Aireon also announced a partnership with FlightAware, and together launched the GlobalBeacon flight tracking service. GlobalBeacon is designed to help airlines comply with the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Global Aeronautical Distress Safety System (GADSS) requirements, and will provide airlines with minute-by-minute flight tracking data.
“Many congratulations to both Aireon and Iridium on the success of their first launch,” said Juliet Kennedy, operations director for NATS. “We look forward to further successes with the remainder of the launch programme and what this will mean for operations over the North Atlantic, the world’s busiest area of oceanic airspace.”
Successful launch for start of worldwide ADS-B system | General Aviation Operator
You really do have a short attention span. Australia has been using ADS-B for more than a decade, only possible with ground stations. same with Europe and SE Asia. Nav Canada has been doing the same. Several states either side of the North Atlantic saw the benefit of ADS-B surveillance across the ocean and established the consortium to develop space based surveillance. The report you posted identifies the need for extensive testing before being used operationally. Eventually, if the satellites provide coverage over this end of the world we might benefit - if operators are prepared to pay. There are no free lunches.
Thread Starter
The iridium system works to ground level all over Australia now. By trying to "show off" to be the first in the world with archaic ground based transceivers it costs more and our industry goes broke- unless you are a monopoly!
And as KittyKatKaper suggests, the Aireon solution requires antenna's that can 'see' the satellite and therefore would knock out a lot of the GA aircraft that have fitted. The airlines may benefit in airspace (oceanic) where there is only ADS-C surveillance as it would allow radar-like separation however using CPDLC or HF for air/ground comms may still be a limiting factor.
Thread Starter
Hold on. Pretty simple to mount an antenna on the top of an aircraft!
And it shows why we should not have rushed in. The old AWA DME is another example of the cost of being first and non standard.
And it shows why we should not have rushed in. The old AWA DME is another example of the cost of being first and non standard.
I have not had a chance yet to verify the information in the link I am about to provide (hope to do that later) but here is some info regarding the capability of the Aireon system vs ground based ADS-B receivers.
Strangely enough it is post made by in another thread that you started back in October 2015 regarding Aireon.
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...ml#post9140748
Strangely enough it is post made by in another thread that you started back in October 2015 regarding Aireon.
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...ml#post9140748
DME A
In reply to #6:
As I recall, DME A was superior to "International" DME, in particular that it operated on one frequency, as opposed to individual frequencies for each DME "I" installations. DME A eventually lost out, not because it was inferior, but because of market domination. A bit like the VHS/Beta video recording systems.
So, having a go with DME A wasn't a folly; if things were a little different, it would have been a world beater.
You seem to suggest that we, in Australia, should never have a go, just sit back and wait for someone else to innovate. Not the way I like to see the country headed.
I guess some people always think foreign has to be better, Aussies aren't up to it. Sad really. Still, there is Vegimite....
As I recall, DME A was superior to "International" DME, in particular that it operated on one frequency, as opposed to individual frequencies for each DME "I" installations. DME A eventually lost out, not because it was inferior, but because of market domination. A bit like the VHS/Beta video recording systems.
So, having a go with DME A wasn't a folly; if things were a little different, it would have been a world beater.
You seem to suggest that we, in Australia, should never have a go, just sit back and wait for someone else to innovate. Not the way I like to see the country headed.
I guess some people always think foreign has to be better, Aussies aren't up to it. Sad really. Still, there is Vegimite....
Well in the short time since my previous post I found the following on the Aireon website:
https://aireon.com/resources/technical-overview/
I apologise for the bum steer in the debate between the two systems.
Position Updates
Unlike traditional en-route radars, which rotate once every 12 seconds, Aireon’s space-based satellites can provide position updates up to twice per second, with an expected Update Interval (UI) performance of eight seconds, which would meet the five nautical mile (5 NM) application needs of en-route separation services, according to EUROCAE ED-129B and Eurocontrol GEN SUR specifications.
Unlike traditional en-route radars, which rotate once every 12 seconds, Aireon’s space-based satellites can provide position updates up to twice per second, with an expected Update Interval (UI) performance of eight seconds, which would meet the five nautical mile (5 NM) application needs of en-route separation services, according to EUROCAE ED-129B and Eurocontrol GEN SUR specifications.
I apologise for the bum steer in the debate between the two systems.
Dick just likes "copying the best". And that's only "best" in his opinion.
Doesn't see much point in Aus trying to be a leader. Just follow.
Whose going to pay for the satellite data Dick? The cost will almost certainly be borne by the end user somehow.
So what's really different?
Doesn't see much point in Aus trying to be a leader. Just follow.
Whose going to pay for the satellite data Dick? The cost will almost certainly be borne by the end user somehow.
So what's really different?
Growahead,
Only somebody who swallowed the propaganda, and does not understand the serious technical limitations of the old DME A would make a post like yours.
One of the "shortcomings" was the ability to indicate entirely the wrong distance --- hence the "regulations" on checking before descending below LSA --- no insignificant limitation.
The frequency was such that weather and TS also upset the operation of DME A, it was never going to be a competitor for 1000mc. DME/VORTAC/TACAN.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Australia was not the first to put ADS-B into operation, far from it.
The only thing Australia "pioneered" with ADS-B was "mandatory".
And the first was not 1090ES. That technologically and financially stupid decision came much later.
There is far too much myth and mythology surrounding aviation in Australia, as a former director of CASA said: " Australia is an aviation Galapagos, where all sorts of strange mutations have developed in splendid isolation from the real world".
Only somebody who swallowed the propaganda, and does not understand the serious technical limitations of the old DME A would make a post like yours.
One of the "shortcomings" was the ability to indicate entirely the wrong distance --- hence the "regulations" on checking before descending below LSA --- no insignificant limitation.
The frequency was such that weather and TS also upset the operation of DME A, it was never going to be a competitor for 1000mc. DME/VORTAC/TACAN.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Australia was not the first to put ADS-B into operation, far from it.
The only thing Australia "pioneered" with ADS-B was "mandatory".
And the first was not 1090ES. That technologically and financially stupid decision came much later.
There is far too much myth and mythology surrounding aviation in Australia, as a former director of CASA said: " Australia is an aviation Galapagos, where all sorts of strange mutations have developed in splendid isolation from the real world".
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'Archaic' ground-based ADS-B transceivers owned by AsA on Australian territory are worse than a satellite-based transceivers owned by a 3rd party based in an offshore location...c'mon Dick! Take a step back and have an objective look at that...
But yes, the Aireon capability will be good augmentation to terrestrial ADS-B networks worldwide. In comms hierarchy, a terrestrial network is preferable to a satellite network where practical.
Edited to replace 'receivers' with transceivers
But yes, the Aireon capability will be good augmentation to terrestrial ADS-B networks worldwide. In comms hierarchy, a terrestrial network is preferable to a satellite network where practical.
Edited to replace 'receivers' with transceivers
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ADSB will never replace VAR.
Last edited by Frank Arouet; 20th Jan 2017 at 08:55. Reason: Cone of silence activated
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DEVONPORT AND JACOBS WELL
Onya Frank!
Good reminder in post #7 Check Thrust.
There was a section on satellite based ADS/B in a 2006 paper prepared in Australia. None of the peer reviewers in CASA or AsA made adverse comment on the concept.
Pays to have a decent filing system and (despite the advancing years) some semblance of memory.
MJG
Back in Paradiise but still on line and trying to keep some folk honest.
Good reminder in post #7 Check Thrust.
There was a section on satellite based ADS/B in a 2006 paper prepared in Australia. None of the peer reviewers in CASA or AsA made adverse comment on the concept.
Pays to have a decent filing system and (despite the advancing years) some semblance of memory.
MJG
Back in Paradiise but still on line and trying to keep some folk honest.
Leady #13
Typical post from Leady; play the poster with a put down. The fact is that DME A, and other Australian developments were innovative and good products, so my point about waiting for others to come up with the goods is a valid point of view:
The Australian DME System
It would be nice if you could just make your point in a civilised discussion. You don't have a small dog, by any chance, do you?
The Australian DME System
It would be nice if you could just make your point in a civilised discussion. You don't have a small dog, by any chance, do you?
From Aireons' Technical Overview document my rough calculations indicate, that when an Iridium satellite fails it will create a moving 'black-spot' roughly 3000 km in diameter, which, for a fixed spot on the globe would cause upto 9 minutes or so of no service/coverage until the next satellite comes into view.