Lifestyle
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Lifestyle
Hi all,
My wife and myself are contemplating a move to Australia, and I'm just wondering what the lifestyle is like there, namely how many nights a month you can expect to be home, and what the odds of getting a job at Virgin Australia(turboprop, or mainline), or QANTAS(same deal) are. We would be hoping to live in Brisbane, but would be open to Sydney as well. I'm currently ATR type rated in flying in Canada. We don't have any VISA issues as she could fairly easily obtain one. I would however have to transfer my licenses over.
Thanks in advance for any info.
Marinth.
My wife and myself are contemplating a move to Australia, and I'm just wondering what the lifestyle is like there, namely how many nights a month you can expect to be home, and what the odds of getting a job at Virgin Australia(turboprop, or mainline), or QANTAS(same deal) are. We would be hoping to live in Brisbane, but would be open to Sydney as well. I'm currently ATR type rated in flying in Canada. We don't have any VISA issues as she could fairly easily obtain one. I would however have to transfer my licenses over.
Thanks in advance for any info.
Marinth.
If you have residency in Australia and get your licences sorted I would think Virgin would look at you for the ATR fleet.
I wouldn't go into the interview with the view that the job is a given, but if you approach it the right way you should be ok assuming your human (that isn't a given unfortunately having seen how some applicants behave).
Don't know about QantasLink or other operators.
If you get into the ATR operation then you can, at the appropriate time, move to long haul, NZ, short haul whatever takes your fancy and is inline with your seniority.
I suspect the progression would be ATR, SO on 777, then right hand seat on the 737 in NZ or Australia. From there you can move to the 330 or tripler as a FO.
Commands would easily I suspect be at least 15 years off.
To answer your particular questions, the ATR has 10 days off a month as far as I am aware, don't do a whole lot of overnights. More than likely you would end up in Canberra, at least initially (but that is just a guess on my part).
Once on the 737 expect to spend more time away but you do have the option for bidding for day trips, though success with the bidding system is somewhat random.
Best lifestyle I suspect is on the widebodies, the 330 starts Abu Dhabi at some point and there is discussion around Hong Kong, Singapore and Beijing, but nothing concrete there. The 777 does lax.
The 737 does plenty in oz and up to Bali, also the pacific islands, plenty of variety though the 737 guys and gals are working hard at the moment.
I wouldn't go into the interview with the view that the job is a given, but if you approach it the right way you should be ok assuming your human (that isn't a given unfortunately having seen how some applicants behave).
Don't know about QantasLink or other operators.
If you get into the ATR operation then you can, at the appropriate time, move to long haul, NZ, short haul whatever takes your fancy and is inline with your seniority.
I suspect the progression would be ATR, SO on 777, then right hand seat on the 737 in NZ or Australia. From there you can move to the 330 or tripler as a FO.
Commands would easily I suspect be at least 15 years off.
To answer your particular questions, the ATR has 10 days off a month as far as I am aware, don't do a whole lot of overnights. More than likely you would end up in Canberra, at least initially (but that is just a guess on my part).
Once on the 737 expect to spend more time away but you do have the option for bidding for day trips, though success with the bidding system is somewhat random.
Best lifestyle I suspect is on the widebodies, the 330 starts Abu Dhabi at some point and there is discussion around Hong Kong, Singapore and Beijing, but nothing concrete there. The 777 does lax.
The 737 does plenty in oz and up to Bali, also the pacific islands, plenty of variety though the 737 guys and gals are working hard at the moment.
Lifestyle will come down to rostering.
Virgin has a bidding system which allows you to slant your roster toward your needs.
Its alternating 11/12 off every 28 days with 6 weeks annual leave.
330/777 as a new joiner as an SO (777) yes forget as an FO likewise VAA command.
Tiger as I understand it is 3 off 5 on system
I'm not sure how the rosters work at VARA. I think they get 10 off. The other thing I'm not sure on is how likely it is for one to be able to move out of the ATR with the 10% rule.
I know that SO's take about 4ish years to get to Virgin Mainline at the current rate.
I think the licence transfer is Medical, Air Law and a check ride unlike going to Europe which would involve day 1 lift and drag all the way through to the Mars mission.
Brisbane is significantly cheaper and easier to get around than Sydney but you might find it uncomfortable in Summer (sub tropical climate)
Your timing couldn't be better all companies are recruiting heavily as QF are recruiting and some are taking the plunge into the contract world over in Asia.
Virgin has a bidding system which allows you to slant your roster toward your needs.
Its alternating 11/12 off every 28 days with 6 weeks annual leave.
330/777 as a new joiner as an SO (777) yes forget as an FO likewise VAA command.
Tiger as I understand it is 3 off 5 on system
I'm not sure how the rosters work at VARA. I think they get 10 off. The other thing I'm not sure on is how likely it is for one to be able to move out of the ATR with the 10% rule.
I know that SO's take about 4ish years to get to Virgin Mainline at the current rate.
I think the licence transfer is Medical, Air Law and a check ride unlike going to Europe which would involve day 1 lift and drag all the way through to the Mars mission.
Brisbane is significantly cheaper and easier to get around than Sydney but you might find it uncomfortable in Summer (sub tropical climate)
Your timing couldn't be better all companies are recruiting heavily as QF are recruiting and some are taking the plunge into the contract world over in Asia.
VARA ATR guys get 8 RDO with approx 2-3 overnights per 28 day roster. No bidding system so if you want a day off you have to swap after roster publish annual leave is even more difficult to get and with the way they run the ATR I wouldn't think it would even be around in 18 months two yrs.
I'm no expert but from what I've read on the recruitment thread they either go to the ATR or SO 777. The quickest way from there to 73 would be VANZ then VAA PER base.
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Depending upon your experience and whether you can live/work in NZ or not you may be able to get a B737 FO position with Virgin New Zealand. I heard they were looking a few months ago - Air New Zealand took a few of their pilots. I suspect there will be quite a bit more movement in NZ and Australia in the coming months.
Shoe in at qantas link dash 8. They're very keen and with some previous experience you may find a command rather fast. Classic or q400. Lots of bases not sure how they allocate
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I suspect the progression would be ATR, SO on 777, then right hand seat on the 737 in NZ or Australia.
Last edited by Hasselhof; 13th Dec 2016 at 08:20. Reason: clarification
Yeah clear as mud for me to. Best thing would be to ask AFAP or VIPA.
I think you get a GDOJ but if you get the ATR you are subject to the 10% limit so I guess it comes down to how many ATR pilots there are to work out how long. I guess once the 10% limit is reached then a junior SO could trump you. Thats my understanding only.
Qlink another option, QF lounge access, business class duty, good meals, good hotels and very good staff travel. I'm not sure what their progression is into mainline or Jetstar but the head honcho did send out an email regarding progression within the company so its come a long way from 10 years ago.
I think you get a GDOJ but if you get the ATR you are subject to the 10% limit so I guess it comes down to how many ATR pilots there are to work out how long. I guess once the 10% limit is reached then a junior SO could trump you. Thats my understanding only.
Qlink another option, QF lounge access, business class duty, good meals, good hotels and very good staff travel. I'm not sure what their progression is into mainline or Jetstar but the head honcho did send out an email regarding progression within the company so its come a long way from 10 years ago.
Hoff, as you say it is seniority based. If two pilots joined on the same day with the same experience and one went to the ATR and one went to the 777 then they would be subject to the same opportunities, however given the ATR is the fleet that is recruiting heavily and not many SO's are being appointed, then it is not unreasonable to assume that the existing SO's will have more seniority, so will be able to bid for a window seat on the jet before the new ATR guys. This opens opportunities for the ATR guys to move off the turboprop fleet and into the jet fleet, albeit as a SO.
It may not play out that way in all cases, but it seems a reasonable guess as to how it will go.
Once in the jet fleets NZ is likely to come up as an opportunity before mainline Australia I would think.
Similarly the right hand seat of the wide body Jets would come up realistically only for those pilots who are reasonably senior FO's and in some cases some narrow body captains are bidding back into the right hand seat for lifestyle reasons, some of which is driven by the removal of the ejet fleet.
It may not play out that way in all cases, but it seems a reasonable guess as to how it will go.
Once in the jet fleets NZ is likely to come up as an opportunity before mainline Australia I would think.
Similarly the right hand seat of the wide body Jets would come up realistically only for those pilots who are reasonably senior FO's and in some cases some narrow body captains are bidding back into the right hand seat for lifestyle reasons, some of which is driven by the removal of the ejet fleet.
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Friends of mine do something a bit different. Consider Png Air commuting contract. 3 week on 3 off, 5 brand new ATR with 5 more to come. Not everyone's cup of tea, but a damn sight quicker advancement than Oz and flying is always a challenge. Licence not an issue or Brisbane base. Also Alliance commute firm India if want heaps of money.....
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Thanks for all the helpful replies everyone, they're greatly appreciated!
Hasselhoff- the ATR is very much VARA and 10% cap is very much enforced, VARA crew which include ATR pilots have to do full assessments as if you are applying external (Psych test, sim ride and full panel interview) the ATR just operates on the VA AOC it's a little backwards really.
My advice if you want to work at VA go for SO on the 777 or NZ position you will fly a jet in VA domestically a lot quicker than joining VARA on the ATR or I think QLink will be a far better option seems to be well organised guys I know there are very happy.
My advice if you want to work at VA go for SO on the 777 or NZ position you will fly a jet in VA domestically a lot quicker than joining VARA on the ATR or I think QLink will be a far better option seems to be well organised guys I know there are very happy.
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Hasselhoff- the ATR is very much VARA
it is VARA just the aircraft are on the VA AOC working on VARA conditions therefore the crew are VARA crew operating VA aircraft. I think that's how it is at Cobham? Cobham crew operating QLink 717 aircraft.
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it is VARA just the aircraft are on the VA AOC working on VARA conditions therefore the crew are VARA crew operating VA aircraft. I think that's how it is at Cobham? Cobham crew operating QLink 717 aircraft.
VARA for starters IS owned by VAH. VAH operates the ATR under its own AOC, and the aircraft are registered as operating under the VAA AOC. The VARA CEO is not responsible for the ATR operation at all, the VAA CEO is. I also know that current successful applicants are getting employment contracts that don't mention VARA, only VAA.
My understanding is that when Skywest folded and VAH bought the company, they created VARA. Then as part of their restructuring they have moved the ATR operation away from VARA under the VAA banner.
The ATR pilots are still paid in accordance with the VARA EBA which came into force in 2015, however it expires on the 1/7/2018 but it has a clause in it that can be initiated for when the ATR moves over to the VAA AOC. I don't know if this has happened or not yet, I imagine that with agreement, the current EBA could probably remain in force until the new EBA is negotiated for 2018. As a result, given that every pilot on the ATR has a GDOJ number, I don't know how they will be able to enforce the 10% rule if it doesn't also apply to the other fleets such as VANZ or Tiger.
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As a side note, the closest thing that exists to Cobham in the Virgin world would be their tie up with Alliance. It's still not quite the same though as Alliance operate their own aircraft, rather than aircraft owned by the major airline. Plus there are differences in their contracts too obviously, however they would be a similar comparison.
Like I said, ATR crew are very much VARA they are not apart of VA, ATR,F100 and 320 crew do not get to "just bid" on to the VA fleet they have to go through the same external process as the applicants that you mention even then it's not garunteed. The 10% can and is currently being applied ( surely I don't need to explain why VARA put this in the EBA) so if VA wanted they could get anybody off the street to fly 73 domestically as long as there is no suitable candidates bidding from NZ. VA want to use Alliance on another ATR route, but, they need Union approval and because VA are enforsing the 10% it was rejected among a few other reasons.
I'm not sure what clause you're referring regarding negotiation when the ATR goes to the VA AOC it's definitely not in that 2015 EBA.
VANZ is different their EBA has their terms of group transfer etc. As part of the deed tiger, it looks like will be able to just bid with out any psych, sim or interview but they don't get a look in until sometime 2018.
I'm not sure what clause you're referring regarding negotiation when the ATR goes to the VA AOC it's definitely not in that 2015 EBA.
VANZ is different their EBA has their terms of group transfer etc. As part of the deed tiger, it looks like will be able to just bid with out any psych, sim or interview but they don't get a look in until sometime 2018.