They found the person in Melbourne doing fake radio calls !
19 year old suffering from autism and depression and not on medication...
Playing the sympathy card already
Playing the sympathy card already
I hope your comment re 'sympathy card' is in jest.
Autism and depression are real mate, Google them if in doubt.
We are not all lucky enough to be without problems. Some people suffer and do things that seem incomprehensible to 'us'.
Let's hope that if this individual does in fact have autism and depression, then he gets the help he requires and goes on to live a fulfilled and productive life.
Imagine a world where people were forever judged by mistakes they made, and never given an opportunity to correct those errors.....
Why do people immediately assume it's a 'sympathy card'? What a sad place this is.
Allthecoolnames 
I for one would like to know why and what aviation experience the said person has. Obviously he can talk aviation well enough on the radio to to get listened to. Where did he learn?
Hopefully he is not going to do it again. Some of you folk want revenge instead of justice. Not a good look.
I for one would like to know why and what aviation experience the said person has. Obviously he can talk aviation well enough on the radio to to get listened to. Where did he learn?
Hopefully he is not going to do it again. Some of you folk want revenge instead of justice. Not a good look.
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I do get the sympathy card bit.
I mean how many people with autism and/or depression in this world are dialling up frequencies and and talking to Flight Crew? Clearly he had done his research, got the equipment, sussed out frequencies, researched basic phrases to say...
He knew what he was doing. Sorry....
I mean how many people with autism and/or depression in this world are dialling up frequencies and and talking to Flight Crew? Clearly he had done his research, got the equipment, sussed out frequencies, researched basic phrases to say...
He knew what he was doing. Sorry....
Again, Google autism and depression, or better still talk to someone. You probably know someone with depression or autism. Autism is a spectrum disorder that has many forms.
Here, I've made it easy for you https://www.autismspectrum.org.au/content/what-autism
From their website:
These behaviours often manifest in an intense and focused interest in a particular subject matter.
Autism does not mean that a person can't function at all.
As for depression, well that doesn't mean one can't function 'normally' either.
So perhaps this person had the equipment and listened to calls. It's not difficult to detect patterns and standard phrases; hold on, that's how I learnt radio calls, but I digress.
Yes, he knew what he was doing, but filter that through the lens of depression and autism and put on your compassionate pants and it might be easier to understand how he did this (assuming he has been found guilty that is).
We are very quick to say 'let's wait for the investigation ' or 'the pilot did a great job of avoiding the school' when it's an aircraft accident, but wait for the investigation into this to establish the facts, no!
Great Mob mentality on show here.
Here, I've made it easy for you https://www.autismspectrum.org.au/content/what-autism
From their website:
These behaviours often manifest in an intense and focused interest in a particular subject matter.
Autism does not mean that a person can't function at all.
As for depression, well that doesn't mean one can't function 'normally' either.
So perhaps this person had the equipment and listened to calls. It's not difficult to detect patterns and standard phrases; hold on, that's how I learnt radio calls, but I digress.
Yes, he knew what he was doing, but filter that through the lens of depression and autism and put on your compassionate pants and it might be easier to understand how he did this (assuming he has been found guilty that is).
We are very quick to say 'let's wait for the investigation ' or 'the pilot did a great job of avoiding the school' when it's an aircraft accident, but wait for the investigation into this to establish the facts, no!
Great Mob mentality on show here.
Yes, autism is a spectrum disorder and it manifests itself in different ways. However, taking your advice, Google reveals to me (as I suspected) that the majority of those with autism know the difference between right and wrong (moral reasoning), often quite strongly. As do people with depression.
Admittedly I'm on the slant of those that think that everyone seems to have an excuse for everything these days - and don't take responsibility for their own actions.
*This is of course not a slight against those with autism or depression.
*And, innocent until proven guilty, as others have said.
Have I covered off on all the PC ****e I needed to?
Admittedly I'm on the slant of those that think that everyone seems to have an excuse for everything these days - and don't take responsibility for their own actions.
*This is of course not a slight against those with autism or depression.
*And, innocent until proven guilty, as others have said.
Have I covered off on all the PC ****e I needed to?
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Allthecoolnames, you're not a member of Victorias judiciary are you..??
Seriously though, no one is saying that Autism and depression are not real and can affect peoples behaviour. But it seems that every time someone is up before the courts these days, their defence is that it wasn't their fault due to some illness/condition/past treatment/ethnicity etc etc. Enough with the excuses!
People need to take responsibility for their actions. This person made a conscious decision to do this. Nobody is saying he should forever be judged and not given a chance to rehabilitate, but this was not some 'mistake' or error of judgment. It was a deliberate action and needs to be dealt with accordingly.
If found guilty, a bit of time away to reflect on the error of his ways is justified in this case, and may well deter others from doing the same thing. While he's inside, by all means provide the medical/psychological help he needs. Its not a matter of revenge. Its called making someone accountable for their actions. Something that has been sadly lacking in our court system of late.
Seriously though, no one is saying that Autism and depression are not real and can affect peoples behaviour. But it seems that every time someone is up before the courts these days, their defence is that it wasn't their fault due to some illness/condition/past treatment/ethnicity etc etc. Enough with the excuses!
People need to take responsibility for their actions. This person made a conscious decision to do this. Nobody is saying he should forever be judged and not given a chance to rehabilitate, but this was not some 'mistake' or error of judgment. It was a deliberate action and needs to be dealt with accordingly.
If found guilty, a bit of time away to reflect on the error of his ways is justified in this case, and may well deter others from doing the same thing. While he's inside, by all means provide the medical/psychological help he needs. Its not a matter of revenge. Its called making someone accountable for their actions. Something that has been sadly lacking in our court system of late.
Joseph Your dismissive final line says a lot.....
Right and wrong can be subjective depending on the persons state of mind. That's why extenuating circumstances are considered during trials etc.
The mind is a powerful tool... If you're honest, I bet you've done things you knew were wrong but were able to 'justify'. We all have.
Right and wrong can be subjective depending on the persons state of mind. That's why extenuating circumstances are considered during trials etc.
The mind is a powerful tool... If you're honest, I bet you've done things you knew were wrong but were able to 'justify'. We all have.
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Autism and depression in the courts is a welcome change to "under the influence of alcohol and drugs at the time". That was just getting plane boring defence and easily provable!
But it seems that every time someone is up before the courts these days, their defence is that it wasn't their fault due to some illness/condition/past treatment/ethnicity etc etc. Enough with the excuses!
I think its not actually a excuse but a defence.
Also we need to look into why such a increase in Autism, particularly in kids the last years.
But it seems that every time someone is up before the courts these days, their defence is that it wasn't their fault due to some illness/condition/past treatment/ethnicity etc etc. Enough with the excuses!
I think its not actually a excuse but a defence.
Also we need to look into why such a increase in Autism, particularly in kids the last years.
If you're honest, I bet you've done things you knew were wrong but were able to 'justify'. We all have.
Joseph Your dismissive final line says a lot.....
Some defences are real and some are excuses. That is why we have a legal system that attempts to sort the wheat from the chaff.
I think we need to be more analytical with sweeping generalisations.
Where is the evidence for this statement? Perhaps it's true perhaps it's not. Perhaps those 'excuses' when properly tested after being claimed, are in fact upheld.
We learn more and more about the mind and it's effects all the time, however, because unlike a broken limb, it's not obvious, we tend not to believe it. How could someone's mind make them do that???
Now, if this person is found guilty, then of course there should be consequences, I have never claimed otherwise. Those consequences should reflect the damaged caused and the causal factors behind those actions.
I fear we are becoming a non thinking society that simply accepts what we are told without giving proper analytical consideration to it.
As for the increase in Autism diagnosis, there are a number of possible factors, diagnostic substitution, or a change in diagnostic criteria, are but two.
I think we need to be more analytical with sweeping generalisations.
But it seems that every time someone is up before the courts these days, their defence is that it wasn't their fault due to some illness/condition/past treatment/ethnicity etc etc. Enough with the excuses!
We learn more and more about the mind and it's effects all the time, however, because unlike a broken limb, it's not obvious, we tend not to believe it. How could someone's mind make them do that???
Now, if this person is found guilty, then of course there should be consequences, I have never claimed otherwise. Those consequences should reflect the damaged caused and the causal factors behind those actions.
I fear we are becoming a non thinking society that simply accepts what we are told without giving proper analytical consideration to it.
As for the increase in Autism diagnosis, there are a number of possible factors, diagnostic substitution, or a change in diagnostic criteria, are but two.
Bottums Up
Geez, I hope if I'm ever accused and being judged by my peers, there are no pilots on the jury!
Most have convicted this guy without knowing any facts, but based purely on media reports of what he did. Reports of possible medical factors are, mostly, dismissed as excuses to "get him off".
Bloody poor form from folk that like to consider themselves, in the main, professional.
Most have convicted this guy without knowing any facts, but based purely on media reports of what he did. Reports of possible medical factors are, mostly, dismissed as excuses to "get him off".
Bloody poor form from folk that like to consider themselves, in the main, professional.
Allthegood...my comment has created some lively debate. I wasn't trying to be as insensitive as I appeared...we all have our own battles. Autism is a defence and a good defence lawyer will use it. No I don't think they will get a beating with wet lettuce nor should they. It appears to be a federal offence and when and if convicted it will be a balance between a deterrent to other potential offenders and ensuring this person gets any help they may need.
You had me until "PC ****e", Joseph, at which point you demonstrated that you don't get the point. Maybe one day you'll be a suspect charged with something for which the mob is clamouring for your scalp. Then you'll learn the point the hard way. (I think CC would agree with this point.)
Anyway, I reckon that in this case there's a chance that the charges won't be proven, whether or not the suspect is suffering autism and depression. I don't know the specific charges laid, but if an element of the offences charged is, as suggested by the news reports, the endangerment of life, the prosecution is going to have to prove that life was, in fact, put in danger. (Yes: I realise it's silly to rely on news reports, but that's the only source I have about the nature of the charges laid.)
Hoax MAYDAY? How does that involve the endangerment of life?
If the life of the SAR responders who responded to the hoax MAYDAYS were put in danger, it would follow that their lives are put in danger every time they respond to a real MAYDAY.
Hoax ATC instruction to 'go around'? (This was the implication of the ABC report on the hoax ATC instructions.) How does that involve the endangerment of life?
A pilot of an aircraft on approach can always elect to go around, and the Tower knows this and is prepared for it. The Tower can always instruct an aircraft on approach to go around, and pilots of those aircraft know this and are prepared for it.
Whilst it would, of course, be possible to issue a number of hoax ATC instructions that, in combination, would create very real dangers of collision if not an actual collision, did that actually happen in fact in this case? Remember: The response of the usual spin doctors was the usual smooth rhetoric about no risk to safety, nothing to see here, move on.
Anyway, I reckon that in this case there's a chance that the charges won't be proven, whether or not the suspect is suffering autism and depression. I don't know the specific charges laid, but if an element of the offences charged is, as suggested by the news reports, the endangerment of life, the prosecution is going to have to prove that life was, in fact, put in danger. (Yes: I realise it's silly to rely on news reports, but that's the only source I have about the nature of the charges laid.)
Hoax MAYDAY? How does that involve the endangerment of life?
If the life of the SAR responders who responded to the hoax MAYDAYS were put in danger, it would follow that their lives are put in danger every time they respond to a real MAYDAY.
Hoax ATC instruction to 'go around'? (This was the implication of the ABC report on the hoax ATC instructions.) How does that involve the endangerment of life?
A pilot of an aircraft on approach can always elect to go around, and the Tower knows this and is prepared for it. The Tower can always instruct an aircraft on approach to go around, and pilots of those aircraft know this and are prepared for it.
Whilst it would, of course, be possible to issue a number of hoax ATC instructions that, in combination, would create very real dangers of collision if not an actual collision, did that actually happen in fact in this case? Remember: The response of the usual spin doctors was the usual smooth rhetoric about no risk to safety, nothing to see here, move on.
Do you think they've got the wrong guy?
No.
But nabbing the guy who made the transmissions is not the same as proving the elements of the offences charged.
But nabbing the guy who made the transmissions is not the same as proving the elements of the offences charged.
But nabbing the guy who made the transmissions is not the same as proving the elements of the offences charged.
Look, I've never said, "Lock him away and throw away the key." In fact, I haven't commented at all on appropriate penalty - I'll go further by saying, that, in my mind, in the whole scheme of things, the offence is not that big a deal - along a similar vein to Lead Balloon's discussion re: "endangerment of life". I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm drawing the connection inappropriately. Regardless, I'm certainly not "clamoring for his scalp." as others are.
But, my point is regarding the automatic inference that depression or autism is an excuse for such behaviour. Why are there reports surrounding his medical condition, if not to suggest an "excuse"?
If it transpires that the autism is medically found (legitimately) to be a contributing factor to the behaviour, well, then there is of course a valid excuse. My very basic reading into this (just this afternoon) suggests that moral reasoning is usually strong and prevalent amongst the majority of those on the spectrum.
I'm not being PC here - depression is a very real and terrible condition that afflicts many people in a terrible way. However, it forms no level of excuse in this case - that's simply my opinion.
I'm probably assisting in dragging this thread away from the real topic, for which I apologise. For me, this is a case of differing opinions and not one of anyone "not getting the point."
My poor decision to add the comment regarding "PC ****e" has not done anything to support my opinion - it was not well thought out in this case (there IS too much PC ****e in this world!) but I'll leave it there so the subsequent responses to what I wrote make more sense.
Ironically whilst I read this thread, the targeted advertising on pprune is now showing me where I can buy a cheap VHF transceiver from eBay !
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As the case is currently before the courts, I'd advise that extended comments and opinions about the case and the charged individual should be restrained until the case is heard and judgement handed down.
Discussion of pending cases on "social media" is nowadays considered to possibly be interference in the case, and can land social media commentators in hot water via contempt of court charges.
The AFP have all the facts and information on the case as we currently know it.
It is obvious that the AFP regards cases of ATC and airliner communication interference, with the greatest gravity - and I believe this is correct and in line with the intent and meaning of the laws associated with the charges.
The potential penalties for the offence/s reflect the gravity of the offending.
AFP Media Releases - Man charged following unauthorised radio transmissions at Victorian airports
Discussion of pending cases on "social media" is nowadays considered to possibly be interference in the case, and can land social media commentators in hot water via contempt of court charges.
The AFP have all the facts and information on the case as we currently know it.
It is obvious that the AFP regards cases of ATC and airliner communication interference, with the greatest gravity - and I believe this is correct and in line with the intent and meaning of the laws associated with the charges.
The potential penalties for the offence/s reflect the gravity of the offending.
AFP Media Releases - Man charged following unauthorised radio transmissions at Victorian airports
