Why dont Avplan and Ozrunways share data
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why dont Avplan and Ozrunways share data
Had a search around here but haven't been able to find anything relating to the data feed sharing between Avplan and Ozrunways (which is currently disabled) other than a few posts from people saying it was a good idea.
When Avplan and Ozrunways first started showing traffic there was a shared feed and all traffic from both could be seen. This quickly vanished and I was told it was disabled when I enquired.
This was a brilliant safety tool and I understand there's politics involved in sharing the data between two competitors but surely this is one case where common sense should prevail over profit.
Obviously, it's technically possible and was in place for a short time. But then quickly disabled.
Currently pilots are having to flick between OzR/Avplan and PlaneFinder or others to try see their friends who may be using the other app and even then - that only works if the other planes have ADS-B which most don't.
@Ozrunways and @Avplan people - is this something likely to ever re-appear in your apps? Can you play nice and share the data to improve GA safety even further than you already have?
When Avplan and Ozrunways first started showing traffic there was a shared feed and all traffic from both could be seen. This quickly vanished and I was told it was disabled when I enquired.
This was a brilliant safety tool and I understand there's politics involved in sharing the data between two competitors but surely this is one case where common sense should prevail over profit.
Obviously, it's technically possible and was in place for a short time. But then quickly disabled.
Currently pilots are having to flick between OzR/Avplan and PlaneFinder or others to try see their friends who may be using the other app and even then - that only works if the other planes have ADS-B which most don't.
@Ozrunways and @Avplan people - is this something likely to ever re-appear in your apps? Can you play nice and share the data to improve GA safety even further than you already have?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is a disgrace that they don't share traffic data.
It should be mandatory that they share safety related data, but it may take a coroner to tell get them to do so.
I can understand the commercial logic in the competitors not co-operating, but it is a low act that they don't act in the public good.
I have heard that Avplan were keen, but Ozrunways wanted to protect their advantage in a greater user base and decided to stop any connection. I have not been able to confirm that. If it is untrue please let us know why.
It should be mandatory that they share safety related data, but it may take a coroner to tell get them to do so.
I can understand the commercial logic in the competitors not co-operating, but it is a low act that they don't act in the public good.
I have heard that Avplan were keen, but Ozrunways wanted to protect their advantage in a greater user base and decided to stop any connection. I have not been able to confirm that. If it is untrue please let us know why.
It is a disgrace that they don't share traffic data.
We all have to remember that not all aircraft will be shown on any traffic system (some aircraft non Xponder equipped or turned off) and we all need to be aware of this and keep a look out as much as possible. I fear there's too much gadget gazing and not enough old fashioned lookout going on in some cockpits.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what about the other traffic not on either system.
Having electronic traffic doesn't mean we don't have to look out for other traffic, just we are aided in seeing some of it. The more we are aided in seeing the better.
We're (AvPlan EFB) more than happy to share traffic data with OzR - we've approached them multiple times and OzR don't want to do it.
We've recently added PIREPs and also quite happy to share this data as well, as I see it being a benefit for everyone.
We've recently added PIREPs and also quite happy to share this data as well, as I see it being a benefit for everyone.
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: QLD
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OzRunways are pretty secretive about how many active users they have. If they shared location data, AvPlan would potentially be able to figure it out and vice-versa. In a sense it's handing over real-time information on how successful your EFB is to the competition. That would be my guess anyway. It all comes down to protecting the $$$.
Last edited by Beef Noodle; 8th Nov 2016 at 00:17.
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Earth
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OzRunways are pretty secretive about how many active users they have. If they shared location data, AvPlan would potentially be able to figure it out and vice-versa. In a sense it's handing over real-time information on how successful your EFB is to the competition. That would be my guess anyway.
I've always wondered though whether features like this cause people to use the feature as a bit of a "poor man's TCAS" and making their outside scans a little less vigilant? On the other hand extra information to increase your SA is never a bad thing!
Id think the best way to implement this would be an independant party that provides a service where data could be uploaded to by trusted parties, and then retreieved by end user clients. Like flightaware but for GA...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's available on the web for anyone to see today, so I don't think the issue is commercial secrecy.
OzRunways are pretty secretive about how many active users they have. If they shared location data, AvPlan would potentially be able to figure it out and vice-versa. In a sense it's handing over real-time information on how successful your EFB is to the competition. That would be my guess anyway. It all comes down to protecting the $$$.
I think staring at a portable device looking for traffic that may be present is in itself a safety hazard. If indeed this sort of stuff makes us "safer" I am asking safer from what?
Safer from bird strike perhaps? Safer from Aussie Bob who never uses such gadgets? Safer at the scene of the last mid air? (VFR approach point at YSBK if I recall correctly)
I don't care if the data is shared or not. It will not show me. But I do have a window which I use regularly.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying this sort of thing is useless, but to harp on that lack of data sharing is a safety issue is drawing a pretty long bow. In any event, I hardly know anyone other than the odd private pilot and his mates that are using it anyway.
Safer from bird strike perhaps? Safer from Aussie Bob who never uses such gadgets? Safer at the scene of the last mid air? (VFR approach point at YSBK if I recall correctly)
I don't care if the data is shared or not. It will not show me. But I do have a window which I use regularly.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying this sort of thing is useless, but to harp on that lack of data sharing is a safety issue is drawing a pretty long bow. In any event, I hardly know anyone other than the odd private pilot and his mates that are using it anyway.
In any event, I hardly know anyone other than the odd private pilot and his mates that are using it anyway.
It would be far more useful to have live SSR and ADSB feeds being downloadable to these apps as it is on websites like flightaware.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's all incremental benefit. You get some additional situational awareness from the app you're using, you get some more with ADSB receiver and you get some more with your eyes out the window and some more with your ears on the radio. Add it all together...
You'd also be surprised how many operators are using them...All the HEMS rotary wings in Victoria, the bank runners, RAAus a/c, private a/c, RFDS...
You can have that too on either app for around USD$100, see here
You'd also be surprised how many operators are using them...All the HEMS rotary wings in Victoria, the bank runners, RAAus a/c, private a/c, RFDS...
That is very true. Even in GA there are more aircraft than not which wouldn't show up in any case. The vast majority of CPL students on NAV ex flights won't be using tablets so they won't show up. Many private pilots don't use them, and depending on your organization, a lot of GA charter pilots don't use them.
It would be far more useful to have live SSR and ADSB feeds being downloadable to these apps as it is on websites like flightaware.
It would be far more useful to have live SSR and ADSB feeds being downloadable to these apps as it is on websites like flightaware.
You can have that too on either app for around USD$100, see here
The most useful solution would be one which can download live ADSB & SSR information over your 3G/4G connection.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The question I have is how many aircraft in vicinity are not seen in the visual lookout method?
No one here can say.
However, you hear reports from US where they have a much more extensive electronic traffic system used by GA aircraft, that pilots are amazed by how much traffic is not seen in the visual lookout system. Yes I know, those pilots are all idiots who don't have a good lookout, unlike the gods who inhabit Australian cockpits.
I suspect the real reason we are pretty safe from collision is not our lookout, but the big sky principle.
No one here can say.
However, you hear reports from US where they have a much more extensive electronic traffic system used by GA aircraft, that pilots are amazed by how much traffic is not seen in the visual lookout system. Yes I know, those pilots are all idiots who don't have a good lookout, unlike the gods who inhabit Australian cockpits.
I suspect the real reason we are pretty safe from collision is not our lookout, but the big sky principle.
I suspect the real reason we are pretty safe from collision is not our lookout, but the big sky principle.
I use OzRunways on my Android Tablet and in the past week and a half since Traffic was finally added to the Android version it's helped me at least 4 times. My job requires a fair bit of time with my head in the cockpit down at VFR levels, I've had 2 occasions where traffic was given by ATC but no ID and I was able to find them and Identify them on OzRunways straight away and organise seperation and I've 2 other occasions where Traffic has been shown on Ozrunways that ATC didn't see.
I personally would love for everyone to be installing Ozrunways on their device, whether that's an iPhone, Tablet or Android Phone. We talk about ADS-B giving us greater safety but the cost of installing one being tens of thousands and the installation of OzRunways being free and only requiring a connection which using Telstra you'll be surprised at how wide the coverage can be!
Install it, stick it on your dash and leave it running plugged in to a power source and it could help you out eventually and will barely cost you a thing! Tell your friend you'll be going on a trip so they can track you as well and make sure you get there, lots of uses for it and most people have an iPhone or Android Device these days!
I personally would love for everyone to be installing Ozrunways on their device, whether that's an iPhone, Tablet or Android Phone. We talk about ADS-B giving us greater safety but the cost of installing one being tens of thousands and the installation of OzRunways being free and only requiring a connection which using Telstra you'll be surprised at how wide the coverage can be!
Install it, stick it on your dash and leave it running plugged in to a power source and it could help you out eventually and will barely cost you a thing! Tell your friend you'll be going on a trip so they can track you as well and make sure you get there, lots of uses for it and most people have an iPhone or Android Device these days!
The most useful solution would be one which can download live ADSB & SSR information over your 3G/4G connection.
Reliance on 3/4G is not an effective solution.
Welcome to the world of commercial reality.
It is my understanding that Avplan used to use the live web feed from OZRunways but don't any more as there used to be stacks of aircraft showing up on Avplan, but now it's few and far between.
There are so few aircraft showing up in Avplan from when I used it, I can't see why Ozrunways would bother feeding them in. Unless I am mistaken, is there a filter that's blocking them out or do they all show up by default?
It is my understanding that Avplan used to use the live web feed from OZRunways but don't any more as there used to be stacks of aircraft showing up on Avplan, but now it's few and far between.
There are so few aircraft showing up in Avplan from when I used it, I can't see why Ozrunways would bother feeding them in. Unless I am mistaken, is there a filter that's blocking them out or do they all show up by default?