Fee Help - RTO's - And the little guy
Thread Starter
Fee Help - RTO's - And the little guy
Once again the cost of compliance seems to be affecting the little guy. The introduction of Fee help back in 2009/10ish for flight training fees has created a new hurdle for flight training providers at the mum/dad level. I have been told the cost to "sign up" with an RTO to access fee help for a flight school is significant and no doubt with the added costs of higher administration and possibly overhaul of facilities to meet requirements.
Fee help subsidised course costs for an instrument rating can be as high as $30 000 - possibly higher but this is a figure easily accessible. The same cost at a smaller more traditional school ~ $16-17 000. Instructor rating roughly the same variation. I'd hate to see what a cpl course is!
The easy access to a government loan is extremely attractive I imagine to students coming through now as it was a struggle for myself and most I'm sure to raise the funds required to self fund a cpl etc. What is happening now is that the commercial students are pushed to the larger schools purely for financial purposes. Leaving smaller schools to pick up the small amount of weekend warrior style flying unless they have the cashflow or funding to join in with the big boys like some have managed to arrange at substantial cost.
Is there any accountability for the excessive fees now being charged by a few? Maybe the outcome of this article will provide stricter oversight of where the money is going - http://ab.co/2bI6YYd
Fee help subsidised course costs for an instrument rating can be as high as $30 000 - possibly higher but this is a figure easily accessible. The same cost at a smaller more traditional school ~ $16-17 000. Instructor rating roughly the same variation. I'd hate to see what a cpl course is!
The easy access to a government loan is extremely attractive I imagine to students coming through now as it was a struggle for myself and most I'm sure to raise the funds required to self fund a cpl etc. What is happening now is that the commercial students are pushed to the larger schools purely for financial purposes. Leaving smaller schools to pick up the small amount of weekend warrior style flying unless they have the cashflow or funding to join in with the big boys like some have managed to arrange at substantial cost.
Is there any accountability for the excessive fees now being charged by a few? Maybe the outcome of this article will provide stricter oversight of where the money is going - http://ab.co/2bI6YYd
Forgive me if I see this a bit simplistically, although this fee help scheme allows trainees to access funds for training more easily, in the long run they will pay heaps more for the same qualifications?
Given the rorts I've seen from some training providers to gouge this money out of the unsuspecting, plus the undoubtedly prohibitive repayment regime from the Government (cause you don't get nothing for nothing...), then later on these new pilots will need to pay for further training, jet endorsements, etc - it all looks like the pilots of the future will become a new lower class of financial conscripts / slaves to their debt - with nothing tangible to show for it. You don't get equity in a pilot licence, enough to convince a lender to fund your family home, anyway!
I would think that wannabe pilots to ought to do it one of the traditional ways - get a job and pay for it as you go - takes longer but has no interest rate attached, or get a personal loan from a bank / parents (if lucky enough). That way you own the qualification and go out into the industry (possibly) unencumbered - which is how you need to be if you're going to start by drilling around the NT in a C210...
It is of interest to me, because I've recently started a flying school and do not wish to provide fee help based on the principles above. I have had this discussion with several hopefuls and am interested in the wider view.
I have seen the utterly depressing financial situation some of the younger pilots starting out in GA have got themselves into - and wonder how they will be able to get ahead financially despite all their work / study...
Given the rorts I've seen from some training providers to gouge this money out of the unsuspecting, plus the undoubtedly prohibitive repayment regime from the Government (cause you don't get nothing for nothing...), then later on these new pilots will need to pay for further training, jet endorsements, etc - it all looks like the pilots of the future will become a new lower class of financial conscripts / slaves to their debt - with nothing tangible to show for it. You don't get equity in a pilot licence, enough to convince a lender to fund your family home, anyway!
I would think that wannabe pilots to ought to do it one of the traditional ways - get a job and pay for it as you go - takes longer but has no interest rate attached, or get a personal loan from a bank / parents (if lucky enough). That way you own the qualification and go out into the industry (possibly) unencumbered - which is how you need to be if you're going to start by drilling around the NT in a C210...
It is of interest to me, because I've recently started a flying school and do not wish to provide fee help based on the principles above. I have had this discussion with several hopefuls and am interested in the wider view.
I have seen the utterly depressing financial situation some of the younger pilots starting out in GA have got themselves into - and wonder how they will be able to get ahead financially despite all their work / study...
Thread Starter
Bear, certainly add the cost of the inflated fees, then the fee help administration fees, and interest on top of that! At 17 a lot of students won't recognise this though. Best of luck with your new school.
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get a personal loan from a bank / parents (if lucky enough). That way you own the qualification and go out into the industry (possibly) unencumbered
Thread Starter
I think the unecumbered bit related to working and saving or a bank of mum and dad loan. Not from the big 4, you'd be at a massive disadvantage trying to pay off a bank loan even at today's interest rates.
Youngsters see it as "free flying". They don't look ahead to the day when they might want to settle down and find that they have a huge encumbrance that will reduce their after tax income and make it very difficult to get any other kind of loan.
It is very difficult for the small 141 operators to compete with this.
The crazy thing is that some of the organisations who DO get access to this bottomless pot of gold seem to go belly up anyway. Where does all the money go I wonder. Certainly not into the entitlements of the staff and the creditors.
It's not like there is a desperate need for low hour sausage CPLs. Couldn't that money be better spent training people in the medical profession? If someone wants a CPL they can go out and earn it, I did 4 jobs at once to pay for mine.
It is very difficult for the small 141 operators to compete with this.
The crazy thing is that some of the organisations who DO get access to this bottomless pot of gold seem to go belly up anyway. Where does all the money go I wonder. Certainly not into the entitlements of the staff and the creditors.
It's not like there is a desperate need for low hour sausage CPLs. Couldn't that money be better spent training people in the medical profession? If someone wants a CPL they can go out and earn it, I did 4 jobs at once to pay for mine.
Did anything ever come of this?https://ministers.education.gov.au/b...-help-scammers
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There's a fair bit of change coming with the VET Fee-help loans. To participate in the 'new' loan scheme VET providers (RTOs) will have to meet four core criteria, including
(1) quality and repute
(2) funding courses that generate jobs
(3) practical caps on student numbers and
(4) costs for each student place to be set according to delivery expenses.
The devil's in the detail, of course, but sounds good in theory. If an RTO wants to charge twice the going rate, they'll have to demonstrate why they're twice as good, if they want to keep their access to government funding. And all will need to demonstrate that the chances of students getting jobs at the end are good.
And yes, it's not necessarily easy for mum and dad training organisations to become RTOs and access Vet fee-help. Funny how nobody wants government funding to be easy to get, unless they're the ones getting it!
There's literally hundreds of small RTOs across the country that manage it, though. The biggie is proving financial viability. If an RTO goes bust, the government picks up the tab i.e. tax dollars get used to cover the failings of the provider. Not something you'd want to be doing too often. Bigger players generally have access to bigger resources, so they're lower risk.
(1) quality and repute
(2) funding courses that generate jobs
(3) practical caps on student numbers and
(4) costs for each student place to be set according to delivery expenses.
The devil's in the detail, of course, but sounds good in theory. If an RTO wants to charge twice the going rate, they'll have to demonstrate why they're twice as good, if they want to keep their access to government funding. And all will need to demonstrate that the chances of students getting jobs at the end are good.
And yes, it's not necessarily easy for mum and dad training organisations to become RTOs and access Vet fee-help. Funny how nobody wants government funding to be easy to get, unless they're the ones getting it!
There's literally hundreds of small RTOs across the country that manage it, though. The biggie is proving financial viability. If an RTO goes bust, the government picks up the tab i.e. tax dollars get used to cover the failings of the provider. Not something you'd want to be doing too often. Bigger players generally have access to bigger resources, so they're lower risk.
As someone who is looking to commence training I have a question related to this. While some schools are charging up to $98,000 for 0-CPL training, i have notice 2 schools RVAC and 1 other closer to the 60k mark.
My question is how close is the 60k mark to what someone will pay if they are paying for there own training? (0 hours to CPL)
My question is how close is the 60k mark to what someone will pay if they are paying for there own training? (0 hours to CPL)
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$60k is probably a pretty reasonable figure, depending on what qualifications you get along the way. That's about what mine cost, albeit a few years ago. The problem now facing a new hire is the amount of CPL holders that have gone through the sausage factories has exploded. There's more competition than ever, because as was said "Free Flying".
