ABC's Q&A filming in Tamworth June 6th - action please
Censored? Hardly. It might be hard to accept but GA isn't exactly foremost (somewhere far to the rear most likely, if anywhere) in the minds of most Australians - it's hardly surprising it's considered a fringe issue.
The problem is you're trying to create an issue that doesn't exist in the public mind, rather than address an existing one.
The problem is you're trying to create an issue that doesn't exist in the public mind, rather than address an existing one.
Bizarre reasoning, Le p.
So the ABC gets to decide what's a "fringe" issue and gag anyone who wants merely to post a question about it on a taxpayer-funded program website, in the hope that it might get a little more public intention.
Here's one of the 'approved' questions, dealing with an issue that must be important to many people:
I can't recall the last time anyone I know said anything about illegal speed measuring devices.
My theory continues to be that the work experience kid who 'approves' the question was on detention or at an orthodontist's appointment yesterday. A deliberate decision not to publish questions about an issue judged by the ABC as a "fringe" issue would be a breathtakingly inappropriate action, even for the ABC.
So the ABC gets to decide what's a "fringe" issue and gag anyone who wants merely to post a question about it on a taxpayer-funded program website, in the hope that it might get a little more public intention.
Here's one of the 'approved' questions, dealing with an issue that must be important to many people:
"all governments extort money by use of illegal speed measuring devices see Federal weight&measures /speed measuring devices it says the cameras must be tested every six months ===
what will you do to correct this rip off
under Federal law state steal from motorists" - peter bucknell
what will you do to correct this rip off
under Federal law state steal from motorists" - peter bucknell
My theory continues to be that the work experience kid who 'approves' the question was on detention or at an orthodontist's appointment yesterday. A deliberate decision not to publish questions about an issue judged by the ABC as a "fringe" issue would be a breathtakingly inappropriate action, even for the ABC.
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Well I don't know if we have much chance of getting a question onto Q&A. As far as I can tell 4 people including myself have submitted a question and 4 others might have. I hope there are lots out there who have but are just keeping quiet or aren't posting on prune. As of a few moments ago 2,909 people had read this thread. If most of them put in a question re aviation - ANY question , we might be in with a chance.
The problem is there are only 30 to 40 thousand of us so the powers that be couldn't really give a s*#t . Aboriginals don't get much of a go and there are over 10 times as many of them. Campbell Newman sacked 21,000 people when he started and that's about half our number. If our numbers are small we have to be strong and loud. Get writing lads and ladies. After the election is too late.
The problem is there are only 30 to 40 thousand of us so the powers that be couldn't really give a s*#t . Aboriginals don't get much of a go and there are over 10 times as many of them. Campbell Newman sacked 21,000 people when he started and that's about half our number. If our numbers are small we have to be strong and loud. Get writing lads and ladies. After the election is too late.
And I can't recall the last time I hear someone I know mention GA other than on here and at work!
If that's your theory then why did you mention censorship in the first place other than to rile people?
If that's your theory then why did you mention censorship in the first place other than to rile people?
My original post mentioned alternatives. Either censorship or the work experience kid who 'approves' the questions was in detention or at the orthodondist.
You are the one suggesting that a deliberate decision has been made not to approve the publication of any question on the Q&A website about the 'fringe' issue of GA. If that is true, that is censorship. Plain and simple. As I said, it would be so breathtakingly inappropriate that I would not have considered even the ABC to have engaged in that behaviour.
If it is true, I will be writing to Media Watch. I would encourage anyone who sent in a question that has not appeared on the website (noting that the decision whether to ask a question during the actual event is a different decision) to also write to Media Watch.
My supplementary point is that if the 'filter' is on the basis of what's a 'fringe' issue and what's not a fringe issue, there are plenty of questions published about what are, in my opinion, fringe issues. There are plenty of questions that I would judge as being from the lunatic fringe. But that's just my personal opinion.
Which is kinda the point about the inappropriateness of censorship on the basis of the ABC's judgment of what's a 'fringe' issue ....
You are the one suggesting that a deliberate decision has been made not to approve the publication of any question on the Q&A website about the 'fringe' issue of GA. If that is true, that is censorship. Plain and simple. As I said, it would be so breathtakingly inappropriate that I would not have considered even the ABC to have engaged in that behaviour.
If it is true, I will be writing to Media Watch. I would encourage anyone who sent in a question that has not appeared on the website (noting that the decision whether to ask a question during the actual event is a different decision) to also write to Media Watch.
My supplementary point is that if the 'filter' is on the basis of what's a 'fringe' issue and what's not a fringe issue, there are plenty of questions published about what are, in my opinion, fringe issues. There are plenty of questions that I would judge as being from the lunatic fringe. But that's just my personal opinion.
Which is kinda the point about the inappropriateness of censorship on the basis of the ABC's judgment of what's a 'fringe' issue ....
Yes, that's me: paranoid. 
If it's 'filtering' on the basis of someone in the ABC's opinion of what's a 'fringe' issue, that's censorship.
It's OK to 'filter' defamatory and obscene material. It's not OK for a taxpayer funded broadcaster and website to decide that all questions about a particular subject matter that a group of people consider important is not deserving of publication.
But note the word "if".
If it's 'filtering' on the basis of someone in the ABC's opinion of what's a 'fringe' issue, that's censorship.
It's OK to 'filter' defamatory and obscene material. It's not OK for a taxpayer funded broadcaster and website to decide that all questions about a particular subject matter that a group of people consider important is not deserving of publication.
But note the word "if".
What if it's filtering on the grounds of "boring, uninteresting and irrelevant"? Again note the "if".
To quote the Oxford dictionary, censorship is: "The suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security"
Just because you can't get your voice heard doesn't make it censorship.
To quote the Oxford dictionary, censorship is: "The suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security"
Just because you can't get your voice heard doesn't make it censorship.
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If you submitted a question to this forum do you think your question was better than any of the following that found their way onto the QandA site?
A quick look through the message writers show:
David Anderson x 9 Questions
Pedro x 9 Questions
John Woods x 9 Questions
Barnacle Bob x 5 Questions
Samuel Crane x 3 Questions
Andrew Kearny x 2 Questions
Marilyn Beech x 2 Questions
Le Pingouin is right.....
30 May 2016 10:23:16pm "Politicians talk but say nothing, bad case of verbal diarrhoea" - Hele
30 May 2016 10:33:31pm "Steve is not a Qld Labor Mp !!! Why is your title popping up on the screen incorrectly!!!" - D kennedy
30 May 2016 9:56:22pm "Someone has been telling Lambie how to dress and look ,could she please get an English teacher" - steve rogers
30 May 2016 9:46:27pm "Can Nick & Jacquie be our first President and First Lady ??" - Jim Ent
30 May 2016 5:54:00pm "do you have any fans that u kiss" - milcent mae felix
30 May 2016 5:48:57pm "Have all questions got to be in by Friday afternoon? Please explain!" - Phil Kelly
30 May 2016 10:33:31pm "Steve is not a Qld Labor Mp !!! Why is your title popping up on the screen incorrectly!!!" - D kennedy
30 May 2016 9:56:22pm "Someone has been telling Lambie how to dress and look ,could she please get an English teacher" - steve rogers
30 May 2016 9:46:27pm "Can Nick & Jacquie be our first President and First Lady ??" - Jim Ent
30 May 2016 5:54:00pm "do you have any fans that u kiss" - milcent mae felix
30 May 2016 5:48:57pm "Have all questions got to be in by Friday afternoon? Please explain!" - Phil Kelly
David Anderson x 9 Questions
Pedro x 9 Questions
John Woods x 9 Questions
Barnacle Bob x 5 Questions
Samuel Crane x 3 Questions
Andrew Kearny x 2 Questions
Marilyn Beech x 2 Questions
Le Pingouin is right.....
Whether Lead Balloon or le Pingouin were correct is now irrelevant. Having wasted one hour of my life watching the programme, there were no questions from GA supporters. 
you guys still don't get it.
you guys still don't get it.
you are using the wrong model of political processes.
That is: make noise>>>media listens>>>media broadcasts>>>voters listen>>>politicians listen>>>government makes CASA change.
This fails at every level for reasons I and others have patiently explained before, to whit:
1.The media are overwhelmed with people clamouring to be heard, GA is not sufficiently newsworthy.
2. The general public are not listening, there are too many messages.
3. politicians ignore voters except in marginal seats.
4. GA and aviation regulation is about as popular with government as prison reform, it s safer for governments to let CASA go its merry way.
Here's an idea; I live in the electorate of Indi. it's held by an independent, Cathy McGowan. She took it from Tony Abbots darling Sophie Mirabella who is standing again. It's going to be a tight race this time again. why not spend your energy working to keep Sophie out and do the same in every marginal seat held by the government until they finally react?
can you raise enough resources to letter drop Benalla,Shepparton,Wangaratta with a message about jobs investment and growth in aviation in those areas and a plea to vote for Cathy? Wang airport is partially closed, the flying club and school are gone for subjects for starters, Mansfield can't get permission to build hangars thanks to NIMBYs, what are the issues at shep and Benalla?????
This is a simpler model: threaten politicians reelection prospects>>>politicians kick CASA in the ass.
you are using the wrong model of political processes.
That is: make noise>>>media listens>>>media broadcasts>>>voters listen>>>politicians listen>>>government makes CASA change.
This fails at every level for reasons I and others have patiently explained before, to whit:
1.The media are overwhelmed with people clamouring to be heard, GA is not sufficiently newsworthy.
2. The general public are not listening, there are too many messages.
3. politicians ignore voters except in marginal seats.
4. GA and aviation regulation is about as popular with government as prison reform, it s safer for governments to let CASA go its merry way.
Here's an idea; I live in the electorate of Indi. it's held by an independent, Cathy McGowan. She took it from Tony Abbots darling Sophie Mirabella who is standing again. It's going to be a tight race this time again. why not spend your energy working to keep Sophie out and do the same in every marginal seat held by the government until they finally react?
can you raise enough resources to letter drop Benalla,Shepparton,Wangaratta with a message about jobs investment and growth in aviation in those areas and a plea to vote for Cathy? Wang airport is partially closed, the flying club and school are gone for subjects for starters, Mansfield can't get permission to build hangars thanks to NIMBYs, what are the issues at shep and Benalla?????
This is a simpler model: threaten politicians reelection prospects>>>politicians kick CASA in the ass.
Last edited by Sunfish; 6th Jun 2016 at 20:40.
31 March: Draft airport lease proposals available for comment
The Council has released a draft lease agreement for users of the Benalla Airport as part of the Benalla Airport Master Plan, and is seeking community and user feedback.
Under the Master Plan, the airport is currently undergoing a $1.64 million redevelopment, with $715,253 from the Federal Government through the National Stronger Regions Fund, $500,000 from the State Government through the Regional Jobs and Infrastructure Fund, $421,550 from the Council and $8,000 from Airport user contributions. The redevelopment will improve the site for all users and increase its potential for expanded commercial use.
Currently there are 24 lessees of hangar space at the Benalla Airport. One third of the current lessees pay $151.64, or $2.92 per week, and 79% of the lessees pay less than $465 a year, or $9 a week. The total income from the site in 2014-15 was $9180.
While consultation on the draft agreements is under way, the Council is seeking further information to benchmark costs at other comparable facilities.
“Notwithstanding the strong shared volunteer maintenance arrangements at the site, the airport still costs the Council and ratepayers more than $35,000 per annum to manage at a basic level, excluding staff costs to support the users of the site,” said CEO Tony McIlroy.
“Lease arrangements must be reviewed to ensure that we are operating with a business model that supports the future growth of the site, for the benefit of all users,” Mr McIlroy said.
“There has been limited capital investment in the site over an extended period and while this may not disadvantage current users it does not support growth or broadening the use of the airport and ensuring future generations of recreational flying can continue in the town. It also doesn't allow us to strengthen and diversify our tourism and employment at the site,” he said.
“We have received a number of submissions about the draft agreement and this and other feedback will be considered as we further develop the model, which will be brought to the Planning and Development Committee on Wednesday 20 April 2016.”
There will be further opportunity for community consultation in June and July.
The Council has released a draft lease agreement for users of the Benalla Airport as part of the Benalla Airport Master Plan, and is seeking community and user feedback.
Under the Master Plan, the airport is currently undergoing a $1.64 million redevelopment, with $715,253 from the Federal Government through the National Stronger Regions Fund, $500,000 from the State Government through the Regional Jobs and Infrastructure Fund, $421,550 from the Council and $8,000 from Airport user contributions. The redevelopment will improve the site for all users and increase its potential for expanded commercial use.
Currently there are 24 lessees of hangar space at the Benalla Airport. One third of the current lessees pay $151.64, or $2.92 per week, and 79% of the lessees pay less than $465 a year, or $9 a week. The total income from the site in 2014-15 was $9180.
While consultation on the draft agreements is under way, the Council is seeking further information to benchmark costs at other comparable facilities.
“Notwithstanding the strong shared volunteer maintenance arrangements at the site, the airport still costs the Council and ratepayers more than $35,000 per annum to manage at a basic level, excluding staff costs to support the users of the site,” said CEO Tony McIlroy.
“Lease arrangements must be reviewed to ensure that we are operating with a business model that supports the future growth of the site, for the benefit of all users,” Mr McIlroy said.
“There has been limited capital investment in the site over an extended period and while this may not disadvantage current users it does not support growth or broadening the use of the airport and ensuring future generations of recreational flying can continue in the town. It also doesn't allow us to strengthen and diversify our tourism and employment at the site,” he said.
“We have received a number of submissions about the draft agreement and this and other feedback will be considered as we further develop the model, which will be brought to the Planning and Development Committee on Wednesday 20 April 2016.”
There will be further opportunity for community consultation in June and July.
I wish I could get hangar space for less than $500/ year.At Parafield the annual fee for outside hardstand is over $2000/year in a hangar more like $5000 if you can get it.
Benalla is not Parafield. It is two hours drive from Melbourne. It floods, taxiways are poor and there is no power or water except for the hangars near what passes for a 'tarmac'. The fuel facility is from 'The Beverly Hillbillies'.
Most of the hangars at Benalla are privately owned but the owners lease the land underneath their own building from the Council. The initial proposed rental increase is to $10 per square metre per year for the dirt under your own building, twice that figure for any commercial enterprise. Plus an unspecified annual fee for common areas upkeep determined by Council and 20 million bucks insurance cover...for the dirt under your own building.
Most of the hangars at Benalla are privately owned but the owners lease the land underneath their own building from the Council. The initial proposed rental increase is to $10 per square metre per year for the dirt under your own building, twice that figure for any commercial enterprise. Plus an unspecified annual fee for common areas upkeep determined by Council and 20 million bucks insurance cover...for the dirt under your own building.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 8th Jun 2016 at 07:54.
The Benalla Aerodrome document does not mention the economic benefits of having the aerodrome, apart from the direct rental income. I will bet that if the aerodrome were shut down, the cost to the local economy would be in excess of $35,000 PA plus "staff costs to support the users of the site".
But I think local councils should extend this concept to other transport modes. I reckon local councils should put up toll gates on all roads that are maintained by the council, and charge all non-ratepayers for using those roads. After all, it's user pays and those 'outsiders' contribute nothing to the local economy, do they.
But I think local councils should extend this concept to other transport modes. I reckon local councils should put up toll gates on all roads that are maintained by the council, and charge all non-ratepayers for using those roads. After all, it's user pays and those 'outsiders' contribute nothing to the local economy, do they.
"..all roads that are maintained by the council.."
That would need to be legally defined. In my local area there are many roads that are the responsibility of the council.
That doesn't equate to them being maintained.
That would need to be legally defined. In my local area there are many roads that are the responsibility of the council.
That doesn't equate to them being maintained.