Suitable 'Replacement' for a C-172RG...?
Thread Starter
Suitable 'Replacement' for a C-172RG...?
I am engaged in a 'discussion' looking for a modern aircraft replacement for a C-172RG.
As I have said in another post,
'It has oft been said that the only replacement for a DC-3, is another DC-3.'
Well, after some research, it seems that the only replacement for a C-172RG, might be another 'lower time' C-172RG.
Nothing else seems to fill the 'niche'....
The 'economics' are becoming fairly well stretched in our search for a 'modern
CSU / retractable' equivalent.
The replacement aircraft type must be suitable for CPL training and be a 'distinct advantage' over the present aircraft.
Any suggestions?
Cheers
As I have said in another post,
'It has oft been said that the only replacement for a DC-3, is another DC-3.'
Well, after some research, it seems that the only replacement for a C-172RG, might be another 'lower time' C-172RG.
Nothing else seems to fill the 'niche'....
The 'economics' are becoming fairly well stretched in our search for a 'modern
CSU / retractable' equivalent.
The replacement aircraft type must be suitable for CPL training and be a 'distinct advantage' over the present aircraft.
Any suggestions?
Cheers
The 2010 doesn't have retracts and I assume they are needed for endo's in this scenario. A Cirrus suffers from the same problem but also with prop too being auto, so you'd need another aircraft in your stable to use either of those as the primary trainer.
Tough decision really !
Tough decision really !
It's easy to just say "how about a Pioneer 400," however what are the downsides of such a change?
- Presumably it is GA LSA registered only? Can you obtain a CPL in an LSA? (just wondering)
- It only has 2 seats because it's LSA and only the kit built version has 4 seats
- It runs a Rotax 100 hp so fuel might be an issue to supply premium for it, otherwise maintenance increases and can a GA school use premium easily?
- It may have a CSU, however it is an electric unit and not hydraulic as a normal CSU old school aircraft would be
- It has a timber spar and as a result a suitably qualified LAME would be needed to sign it off
- It has fabric on the airframe (I think), so again a suitable LAME would be needed to sign it off
- It doesn't have a mixture control (could be a good or a bad point really), but makes it harder to switch someone over to a 210 afterwards
... not a simple replacement.
- Presumably it is GA LSA registered only? Can you obtain a CPL in an LSA? (just wondering)
- It only has 2 seats because it's LSA and only the kit built version has 4 seats
- It runs a Rotax 100 hp so fuel might be an issue to supply premium for it, otherwise maintenance increases and can a GA school use premium easily?
- It may have a CSU, however it is an electric unit and not hydraulic as a normal CSU old school aircraft would be
- It has a timber spar and as a result a suitably qualified LAME would be needed to sign it off
- It has fabric on the airframe (I think), so again a suitable LAME would be needed to sign it off
- It doesn't have a mixture control (could be a good or a bad point really), but makes it harder to switch someone over to a 210 afterwards
... not a simple replacement.
Thread Starter
Hey Mr 'O',
The Arrow series -
PA-28RT-201 Arrow IV
Four-place, retractable landing gear landplane, Lycoming IO-360-C1C6 engine of 200 hp (149 kW), gross weight 2,750 lb (1,247 kg). First certified on 13 November 1978. Features a T tail.[15]
Doesn't say when the last one was built, but our dear C-172RG is 1981 vintage.
No difference age / technology wise.....
Mr Styx,
Thanks, but the 182RG is really no different from the 172RG as a basic CPL trainer and 'cruising' machine....same era, same technology.
Yeah Jaz, but with a bit less fuel, and a couple of not-so-heavies, its OK
Any more..??
Cheers and Thanks anyway..
The Arrow series -
PA-28RT-201 Arrow IV
Four-place, retractable landing gear landplane, Lycoming IO-360-C1C6 engine of 200 hp (149 kW), gross weight 2,750 lb (1,247 kg). First certified on 13 November 1978. Features a T tail.[15]
Doesn't say when the last one was built, but our dear C-172RG is 1981 vintage.
No difference age / technology wise.....
Mr Styx,
Thanks, but the 182RG is really no different from the 172RG as a basic CPL trainer and 'cruising' machine....same era, same technology.
Yeah Jaz, but with a bit less fuel, and a couple of not-so-heavies, its OK
Any more..??
Cheers and Thanks anyway..
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 15th Mar 2016 at 13:59.
Please, please buy the Arrow that shares the same hangar with our fun bird. We have to push it out and in each time that we go flying..
(And that becomes even harder as the Piper's tyres become flatter..)
(And that becomes even harder as the Piper's tyres become flatter..)
Thread Starter
T'ain't easy is it?
The last C-177 I had a go at was in 1969 or thereabouts, there were 2 of them in WA, DZA & DZB, and they 'had limitations'. And yes I know there is a RG model with some improvements, but same problem i.e. vintage and technology...
I'm open to all suggestions.
But now you do begin to see the challenges put to a guy who wants to get a 'modern' 'suitable' CPL trainer which can double as a club rental aircraft for 'general use', and possibly the odd charter...
And this is probably why we still fly 30 - 40 year old aeroplanes.....
Don't blame us, and yes, I'm still searching....
Cheers ....
The last C-177 I had a go at was in 1969 or thereabouts, there were 2 of them in WA, DZA & DZB, and they 'had limitations'. And yes I know there is a RG model with some improvements, but same problem i.e. vintage and technology...
I'm open to all suggestions.
But now you do begin to see the challenges put to a guy who wants to get a 'modern' 'suitable' CPL trainer which can double as a club rental aircraft for 'general use', and possibly the odd charter...
And this is probably why we still fly 30 - 40 year old aeroplanes.....
Don't blame us, and yes, I'm still searching....
Cheers ....
In the past couple of years, I have "invested" approx $120K into my C172RG for exactly this reason. The aircraft is a good fit for CPL training, SEA IR and for "hire and fly" and I can't think of a better option that prepares pilots for entering the GA industry as it stands today.
The aircraft is now SIDs compliant (and did require some corrosion work and fuel tank repair), undercarriage sorted with the better MLG actuators. Avionics-wise, it has an Aspen 1000 PFD, JPI EDM 930 and Garmin 750 / 430W as well as ADSB transponder. No vacuum system anymore - the SAI340 quattro saw that off! All integrated in setup by the avionics lads who did it as a complete package, so good enough for those wanting "glass" but in keeping with my preference for a traditional scan for trainees, I've kept a standby ASI, altimeter and VSI in the usual positions around the Aspen. Re-upholstered interior, and a nicely finished panel fascia and the aircraft should now be a good solution for several years to come, with weight savings to boot.
As above, you can get a 172RG quite cheaply - so spend the money on it and I reckon for about a total investment of up to $250K you will have a really good aircraft that fits your intent perfectly. The added bonus is that in "restoring" the aircraft, you get to identify and deal with the hidden gremlins and hopefully avoid them hassling you in the years ahead.
The aircraft is now SIDs compliant (and did require some corrosion work and fuel tank repair), undercarriage sorted with the better MLG actuators. Avionics-wise, it has an Aspen 1000 PFD, JPI EDM 930 and Garmin 750 / 430W as well as ADSB transponder. No vacuum system anymore - the SAI340 quattro saw that off! All integrated in setup by the avionics lads who did it as a complete package, so good enough for those wanting "glass" but in keeping with my preference for a traditional scan for trainees, I've kept a standby ASI, altimeter and VSI in the usual positions around the Aspen. Re-upholstered interior, and a nicely finished panel fascia and the aircraft should now be a good solution for several years to come, with weight savings to boot.
As above, you can get a 172RG quite cheaply - so spend the money on it and I reckon for about a total investment of up to $250K you will have a really good aircraft that fits your intent perfectly. The added bonus is that in "restoring" the aircraft, you get to identify and deal with the hidden gremlins and hopefully avoid them hassling you in the years ahead.
Thread Starter
Thanks Mr Bear,
We may well go down this track, its marvellous what a new paint job can do...
Bob,
Tch Tch Tch...
Cheers
We may well go down this track, its marvellous what a new paint job can do...
Bob,
Tch Tch Tch...
Cheers
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The answer is simple,
V35B or F33A (for the sporty look and a few knots) or a A36 with tip tanks and a TAT Turbo IO550.
It is not a direct replacement but if I had to fly around the place in a gutless cut less or the Beech you know what I would choose.
V35B or F33A (for the sporty look and a few knots) or a A36 with tip tanks and a TAT Turbo IO550.
It is not a direct replacement but if I had to fly around the place in a gutless cut less or the Beech you know what I would choose.
Thread Starter
Oi know Jab,
I had the pleasure of ferrying one 'brand new' A-36 (TYZ) from BK to JT waaayy baaack on New years Day 1969, it may have been the first one in WA, not too sure about that.
Nice machine....BUT.....$$$'s for trng..?
Cheers
I had the pleasure of ferrying one 'brand new' A-36 (TYZ) from BK to JT waaayy baaack on New years Day 1969, it may have been the first one in WA, not too sure about that.
Nice machine....BUT.....$$$'s for trng..?
Cheers
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 16th Mar 2016 at 03:36.