Buying Hand Held Transeiver - Aus
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Buying Hand Held Transeiver - Aus
I am in the market for a Hand Held Transceiver. A fairly simple task I would think, Then again, possibly not.
Reading the reviews, no company has made a good, simple, legal, Transceiver (for Aus).
Add to that the issue with buying overseas, as then no one will repair if required, Some threads also claim the overseas versions (eg: Icom) are illegal to use here as they may be inferior. I've also read claims the Authority have gone to Airshows and fined people listening on these overseas purchased models of Transceivers, although Aus versions of the same Transceivers are available here. (eg: Icom A6 bought overseas).
Some are legal only for ground use, air use or both.
Anyone using any of the following Transceivers, or what different Brand / Model do you have that you would recommend.
Must be Hand Held Transceiver, Air Band, (Nav band or GPS good, but not required) if not too much extra cost.
For Ground use, but carried in Aircraft for backup, and I would like to install an antenna at home to plug in at home to improve reception range.
Icom IC-A15
Looks good but has the below Statement on one Aussie website
Icom has just received special permission from the ACMA to recommence sale of the IC-A15 airband portable radio as a non-standard device in the interim period before a fully compliant radio is available.
Users should be made aware that these units may not meet the full performance requirements of the current A/NZS standard and should evaluate the supplied performance characteristics against their needs.
The radios will be supplied with documentation outlining the conditions of supply and will be marked so that users can be sure they are receiving an appropriately configured device.
Icom A6
Appears it was removed from sale for a period (possibly, headset would not work with it as advertised) and other criticisms about complicated programming, battery life , battery indicator (or lack of). Lack of accessories that come with the unit and must be bought separately (at inflated prices).
Poor charger that will overcharge (ruin) battery if left on.
Icom A24 (Same criticisms as the A6)
Yaesu FTA 750
Poor / Cumbersome Software
Poor Transmission
Poor GPS
Buttons too small
Locks up when trying to use a GPS function when no signal
Yaesu FTA 230
Poor squelch in aircraft
Small buttons
These are some of the comments I've read on each. There are some good reviews of each of these models too.
Any opinions?
Reading the reviews, no company has made a good, simple, legal, Transceiver (for Aus).
Add to that the issue with buying overseas, as then no one will repair if required, Some threads also claim the overseas versions (eg: Icom) are illegal to use here as they may be inferior. I've also read claims the Authority have gone to Airshows and fined people listening on these overseas purchased models of Transceivers, although Aus versions of the same Transceivers are available here. (eg: Icom A6 bought overseas).
Some are legal only for ground use, air use or both.
Anyone using any of the following Transceivers, or what different Brand / Model do you have that you would recommend.
Must be Hand Held Transceiver, Air Band, (Nav band or GPS good, but not required) if not too much extra cost.
For Ground use, but carried in Aircraft for backup, and I would like to install an antenna at home to plug in at home to improve reception range.
Icom IC-A15
Looks good but has the below Statement on one Aussie website
Icom has just received special permission from the ACMA to recommence sale of the IC-A15 airband portable radio as a non-standard device in the interim period before a fully compliant radio is available.
Users should be made aware that these units may not meet the full performance requirements of the current A/NZS standard and should evaluate the supplied performance characteristics against their needs.
The radios will be supplied with documentation outlining the conditions of supply and will be marked so that users can be sure they are receiving an appropriately configured device.
Icom A6
Appears it was removed from sale for a period (possibly, headset would not work with it as advertised) and other criticisms about complicated programming, battery life , battery indicator (or lack of). Lack of accessories that come with the unit and must be bought separately (at inflated prices).
Poor charger that will overcharge (ruin) battery if left on.
Icom A24 (Same criticisms as the A6)
Yaesu FTA 750
Poor / Cumbersome Software
Poor Transmission
Poor GPS
Buttons too small
Locks up when trying to use a GPS function when no signal
Yaesu FTA 230
Poor squelch in aircraft
Small buttons
These are some of the comments I've read on each. There are some good reviews of each of these models too.
Any opinions?
Last edited by Acrosport II; 19th Jan 2016 at 02:02.
Ahhh yes another great story of Australian "Innovation"...
As I understand it no handheld radios are legal to import or sell in Australia. The Icom IC-A15 has an exemption that allows it to be imported and sold but it must be sold with the warning that it dosent meet the requirements ie the text you quote below.
I am a bit vague of all the details but as I understand the story is the Australian standard for Airband handheld radios was amended in 2010 and again in 2012. This changed the technical requirements for something to do with testing. Standards Australia were told (by Icom and others) that no manufacturer met this standard but stubbornly pushed on with the changes. ACMA adopt the Australian standard as the legal requirements. The legislation has a 12 month grandfathering period. Icom write to ACMA pointing out that no radio meets the requirements leaving the industry with no radios. ACMA [sarcasm]helpfully[/sarcasm] issues an exemption to allow non-complying radios to be sold in australia.
If you were a radio maker would you spend $500,000 to develop and test a new "Australian special" radio that you were only likely to sell at best 500 units per year? Would you as a consumer pay a $500 premium for a radio with an australian c-tick and no other additional features? Why cant we just adopt a convenient international standard? It seems regulatory burden and rule by exemption are not confined to casa...
As I understand it no handheld radios are legal to import or sell in Australia. The Icom IC-A15 has an exemption that allows it to be imported and sold but it must be sold with the warning that it dosent meet the requirements ie the text you quote below.
I am a bit vague of all the details but as I understand the story is the Australian standard for Airband handheld radios was amended in 2010 and again in 2012. This changed the technical requirements for something to do with testing. Standards Australia were told (by Icom and others) that no manufacturer met this standard but stubbornly pushed on with the changes. ACMA adopt the Australian standard as the legal requirements. The legislation has a 12 month grandfathering period. Icom write to ACMA pointing out that no radio meets the requirements leaving the industry with no radios. ACMA [sarcasm]helpfully[/sarcasm] issues an exemption to allow non-complying radios to be sold in australia.
If you were a radio maker would you spend $500,000 to develop and test a new "Australian special" radio that you were only likely to sell at best 500 units per year? Would you as a consumer pay a $500 premium for a radio with an australian c-tick and no other additional features? Why cant we just adopt a convenient international standard? It seems regulatory burden and rule by exemption are not confined to casa...
Since Australia no longer manufactures much of anything, I fail to see why we maintain most Australian Standards at all. Safety helmets of all sorts are a prime example.Why not simply adopt European or American standards?
I have an Icom A6, bought in Australia from Skylines years ago. Might carry it as an emergency backup or for use marshalling or suchlike.
I have an Icom A6, bought in Australia from Skylines years ago. Might carry it as an emergency backup or for use marshalling or suchlike.
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Sunfish,
I have an Icom A6, bought in Australia from Skylines years ago. Might carry it as an emergency backup or for use marshalling or suchlike.
I have an Icom A6, bought in Australia from Skylines years ago. Might carry it as an emergency backup or for use marshalling or suchlike.
Apparently the charger does not switch off itself, so it will overcharge and damage the battery.
Therefore it wouldn't suit sitting at home in a charger been left on during the day.
Some other models (cant remember which) say they can be powered by 12V but will not charge. I believe their 12V connectors puts out 11.5V or something silly like that.
You didn't say whether you thought the Icom A6 was a good Hand held.
Acro, my eyes glazed over reading the manual. It has way too many features for me - banks of frequency memories etc. I can make it change frequencies, adjust squelch and adjust the volume find the PTT and that is all I want. I've never used it in anger.
I carry it on outback trips along with three EPIRB/PLB, a satphone and this thing fully charged against the rest failing.
I carry it on outback trips along with three EPIRB/PLB, a satphone and this thing fully charged against the rest failing.
I paid $180 from Spruce for a Vertex VXA 220. Works a treat for "emergency" purposes.
For me, handhelds that have a good speaker with loud volume rate high on my desirable list. The ultra compact ones suffer in this area. Eg; I wouldn't use a compact one as a running hangar radio, but the 720 works a treat.
What do you need to use it for, cockpit backup with a GA headset?
Generally people buy hand helds, read about the features, program in their local CTAF and area frequency and promptly forget about all of the features, including the squelch setting like yours truly.
For me, handhelds that have a good speaker with loud volume rate high on my desirable list. The ultra compact ones suffer in this area. Eg; I wouldn't use a compact one as a running hangar radio, but the 720 works a treat.
What do you need to use it for, cockpit backup with a GA headset?
Generally people buy hand helds, read about the features, program in their local CTAF and area frequency and promptly forget about all of the features, including the squelch setting like yours truly.
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Sunfish, I read saxaphone at first and wondered why you didn't carry something smaller like a clarinet, then saw satphone and thought maybe a saxaphone would be better. I really must stop the drinking ....
cheers
A172
cheers
A172
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Squawk7700
I paid $180 from Spruce for a Vertex VXA 220. Works a treat for "emergency" purposes.
For me, handhelds that have a good speaker with loud volume rate high on my desirable list. The ultra compact ones suffer in this area. Eg; I wouldn't use a compact one as a running hangar radio, but the 720 works a treat.
What do you need to use it for, cockpit backup with a GA headset?
Generally people buy hand helds, read about the features, program in their local CTAF and area frequency and promptly forget about all of the features, including the squelch setting like yours truly.
I paid $180 from Spruce for a Vertex VXA 220. Works a treat for "emergency" purposes.
For me, handhelds that have a good speaker with loud volume rate high on my desirable list. The ultra compact ones suffer in this area. Eg; I wouldn't use a compact one as a running hangar radio, but the 720 works a treat.
What do you need to use it for, cockpit backup with a GA headset?
Generally people buy hand helds, read about the features, program in their local CTAF and area frequency and promptly forget about all of the features, including the squelch setting like yours truly.
So may also have to look into Antenna on house to improve reception, that can plug into aerial socket (BCN) I believe.
So Icom A24 or Yaesu FTA 750 may be better options, (although some reviews Ive read are not that good for either model). They may have many features I do not end up using.
I do not want a ground based unit only, it must be portable.
Last edited by Acrosport II; 19th Jan 2016 at 09:31.
Someone at our airport runs the VXA720 from 20 Kms away in a shed and that picks up traffic well including those in the circuit, but not from late final. You possibly may not need an external aerial.
The VXA 220 has two voltage input sockets - one that charges the battery and one that only charges the head unit so no issues with frying the battery.
My other radio is a Vertex Standard VXA 710 - take a look, an attractive unit with lots of features including VOR, fm radio and led strobe... BUT the speaker is next to useless and sounds like it's software based versus the old-school sound of the 220.
The Vertex models are all fully waterproof too which we proved on one occasion accidentally.
(I don't work for Vertex. I also bought a Marine VHF off them too which works very well, much better than the Chinese imported ones everyone is getting around with these days)
Hopefully one day the regulators will catch up when they realize how many of these are actually being imported.
The VXA 220 has two voltage input sockets - one that charges the battery and one that only charges the head unit so no issues with frying the battery.
My other radio is a Vertex Standard VXA 710 - take a look, an attractive unit with lots of features including VOR, fm radio and led strobe... BUT the speaker is next to useless and sounds like it's software based versus the old-school sound of the 220.
The Vertex models are all fully waterproof too which we proved on one occasion accidentally.
(I don't work for Vertex. I also bought a Marine VHF off them too which works very well, much better than the Chinese imported ones everyone is getting around with these days)
Hopefully one day the regulators will catch up when they realize how many of these are actually being imported.
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Have carried an Icom A6 for 10 years as backup no problems
The approved unit not so good, multipile failures
So when the call is "Mayday Mayday Mayday XXX 8 mile north yyy engine failure at 800 foot"
What do you want to call on????
The approved unit not so good, multipile failures
So when the call is "Mayday Mayday Mayday XXX 8 mile north yyy engine failure at 800 foot"
What do you want to call on????
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Squawk7700
Someone at our airport runs the VXA720 from 20 Kms away in a shed and that picks up traffic well including those in the circuit, but not from late final. You possibly may not need an external aerial.
The VXA 220 has two voltage input sockets - one that charges the battery and one that only charges the head unit so no issues with frying the battery.
My other radio is a Vertex Standard VXA 710 - take a look, an attractive unit with lots of features including VOR, fm radio and led strobe... BUT the speaker is next to useless and sounds like it's software based versus the old-school sound of the 220.
The Vertex models are all fully waterproof too which we proved on one occasion accidentally.
(I don't work for Vertex. I also bought a Marine VHF off them too which works very well, much better than the Chinese imported ones everyone is getting around with these days)
Hopefully one day the regulators will catch up when they realize how many of these are actually being imported.
Someone at our airport runs the VXA720 from 20 Kms away in a shed and that picks up traffic well including those in the circuit, but not from late final. You possibly may not need an external aerial.
The VXA 220 has two voltage input sockets - one that charges the battery and one that only charges the head unit so no issues with frying the battery.
My other radio is a Vertex Standard VXA 710 - take a look, an attractive unit with lots of features including VOR, fm radio and led strobe... BUT the speaker is next to useless and sounds like it's software based versus the old-school sound of the 220.
The Vertex models are all fully waterproof too which we proved on one occasion accidentally.
(I don't work for Vertex. I also bought a Marine VHF off them too which works very well, much better than the Chinese imported ones everyone is getting around with these days)
Hopefully one day the regulators will catch up when they realize how many of these are actually being imported.
Thanks, Had a look at those models. They are not as common in the shops now. Perhaps replaced by the Yaesu 550 & Yaesu 750.
Cheers
Last edited by Acrosport II; 22nd Jan 2016 at 08:00.
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Deaf
Have carried an Icom A6 for 10 years as backup no problems
The approved unit not so good, multipile failures
So when the call is "Mayday Mayday Mayday XXX 8 mile north yyy engine failure at 800 foot"
What do you want to call on????
Have carried an Icom A6 for 10 years as backup no problems
The approved unit not so good, multipile failures
So when the call is "Mayday Mayday Mayday XXX 8 mile north yyy engine failure at 800 foot"
What do you want to call on????
Hey Deaf,
Are you saying an Icom A6 you bought overseas was a good radio for 10 years, yet an Australian Icom A6 your bought here failed multiple times.
Sounds weard. Can you please elaborate.
Last edited by Acrosport II; 22nd Jan 2016 at 07:07.
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djpil
have an Icom IC-A15 which works really well with a longer antenna.
Supporting aviation communications & operations | ACMA
have an Icom IC-A15 which works really well with a longer antenna.
Supporting aviation communications & operations | ACMA
The A15 looks good, They say the new legal replacement should be out 2015-2016.
2015 is now over, I wonder when (if at all) the replacement will be out in 2016.
Whats everyone's take on this Icom A15 exemption.
They can be bought now, but are they going to cancel the exemption when the new model comes out, and make them illegal, or will they be legal to own and use for as long as it keeps working.
Strange scenario. Id wait for the new model if it was out soon, but dont want to wait a year or so. And will they include the Typical Aussie inflated price (because they are the only legal model).
Last edited by Acrosport II; 22nd Jan 2016 at 08:01.
AcroSport, sorry I shouldn't have buried the link in the text.
My reading on the overall situation is:
I don't think that the new model will ever eventuate, the economics just don't work out. Why would you develop a radio for such a small market? There are what, 30,000 pilots in Australia? Even if half of them fork out for a radio that's only 15,000 units. If they are replaced every 10 years that's only 1500 units per year. If the development cost is $500,000 (a low guess number) and you want to recover over 3 years you need over $100 per radio before you have even built, marketed or shipped anything? This assumes that you get the whole market so the reality is that this is an even higher number.
My reading on the overall situation is:
I don't think that the new model will ever eventuate, the economics just don't work out. Why would you develop a radio for such a small market? There are what, 30,000 pilots in Australia? Even if half of them fork out for a radio that's only 15,000 units. If they are replaced every 10 years that's only 1500 units per year. If the development cost is $500,000 (a low guess number) and you want to recover over 3 years you need over $100 per radio before you have even built, marketed or shipped anything? This assumes that you get the whole market so the reality is that this is an even higher number.
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Originally Posted by Sunfish
Since Australia no longer manufactures much of anything, I fail to see why we maintain most Australian Standards at all. Safety helmets of all sorts are a prime example.Why not simply adopt European or American standards?
The simple answer to that is like CASA, ACMA suffers from a strong culture of "not invented here" syndrome when it comes to their regulatory functions. It's how a whole bunch of people in Belconnen keep themselves employed.
There is no reason at all for ACMA to maintain its own set of standards; in fact, ACMA's standards are copied mostly from ETSI (Europe) standards, and to a lesser extent FCC (U.S.) standards. Compliance with ETSI or FCC standards is sufficient in most other countries in the world, but not here.
The ACMA standards introduce just enough incompatibility with the rest of the world to keep all but the largest manufacturers of radio equipment out of our tiny and insignificant market, and even then they'll only bother at all with high volume product lines such as land mobile radios.
Manufacturers will sometimes jump through the silly and superfluous regulatory hoops for VHF/UHF land mobile or UHF CB radios, but they aren't going to bother for more obscure products such as airband handhelds.
Some Googling indicates that the difference is that the Australian technical specifications that the radio must meet are slightly tighter (better) than overseas, allowing use of the radio both in the air and for ground use (some manufacturer's models are restricted to airborne use only).
That suggests that Icom Japan just needs to make minor changes to the circuitry and the radio will meet both the Australian specifications, and slightly exceed those of overseas countries.
So if correct this does not mean a new model especially for Australia, but instead just some minor changes - improvements - to the current model.
That suggests that Icom Japan just needs to make minor changes to the circuitry and the radio will meet both the Australian specifications, and slightly exceed those of overseas countries.
So if correct this does not mean a new model especially for Australia, but instead just some minor changes - improvements - to the current model.
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It doesn't really work like that.
If Icom makes any changes to the model that affect the characteristics of its emissions, they have to go through the testing and type approval process again in every market in which they wish to sell that radio. That will cost a few hundred thousand dollars. All just to meet a silly Australian requirement for an extra 2dB of 5rd order intermod rejection or something similarly ridiculous.
Not really worth it just to sell 100 radios or so a year in Australia.
If Icom makes any changes to the model that affect the characteristics of its emissions, they have to go through the testing and type approval process again in every market in which they wish to sell that radio. That will cost a few hundred thousand dollars. All just to meet a silly Australian requirement for an extra 2dB of 5rd order intermod rejection or something similarly ridiculous.
Not really worth it just to sell 100 radios or so a year in Australia.
