The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Drones and Sydney NYE Telecast

Old 2nd Jan 2016, 09:58
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
if you noticed where the drone footage was from, it was above Ft Dennison. right in the middle of fireworks restricted zone, i am pretty certain, that CASA would have only allowed it to fly there, after filing a flight plan, and risk assessment forms, probably done after the last NYE show.. so, even if it was hit by a firework, it would have crashed into the harbour a safe distance from everyone.. even those flying over the fireworks on a harbour scenic 2 would be in no danger, min 2100ft and all.
Ultralights is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2016, 10:10
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,861
Received 167 Likes on 94 Posts
There didn't seem to be all that many scenics on the night, the odd chopper and the ApplicancesOnline blimp had been flying for much of the day and into the night.
Squawk7700 is online now  
Old 2nd Jan 2016, 10:58
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Unfortunately I don't know him that well but the UAV operator was Rotorworks. I would be certain they would have all required permits and licences. If you want to see what I could see look up "Surf 2 Summit Media" on Facebook.

Ultralights, from the photos there, you're spot on. They were right at Fort Denison. Looks like they were pretty well set up for the night!

Last edited by TrimSet; 2nd Jan 2016 at 11:15. Reason: Added video
TrimSet is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2016, 20:30
  #24 (permalink)  
Keg

Nunc est bibendum
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,583
Received 11 Likes on 2 Posts
Yes Lookleft, that's my impression of the risk assessment too.

so, even if it was hit by a firework, it would have crashed into the harbour a safe distance from everyone..
So the risk assessment included historical data or research of the performance of a UAS after struck by fireworks that indicated it would crash straight down?

Maybe it did. Like I said, I'd love to read the risk assessment on this one.
Keg is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2016, 20:56
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,861
Received 167 Likes on 94 Posts
Originally Posted by Keg
Yes Lookleft, that's my impression of the risk assessment too.



So the risk assessment included historical data or research of the performance of a UAS after struck by fireworks that indicated it would crash straight down?

Maybe it did. Like I said, I'd love to read the risk assessment on this one.
Drones could do anything when hit by fireworks... It's electronics after all and a knock could upset the gyros and it could spear off in any direction and into anyone. All the failsafes in the world may not stop it... Refer to ATSB report for loss of control of a UAV at the Melbourne MCG.

But, are they safer than a single engined Squirrel overhead at night? Probably.
Squawk7700 is online now  
Old 2nd Jan 2016, 22:07
  #26 (permalink)  
601
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 1,472
Received 17 Likes on 13 Posts
So the risk assessment included historical data or research of the performance of a UAS after struck by fireworks that indicated it would crash straight down?
On that basis, no "first of type" or "first time this has been tried" would ever get off the ground, correct?

Or would you set up a firework display or a series of displays in the middle of nowhere and fly a UAV through the display hoping that it would get hit to determine how it would react?

How many times would you need to do this to get sufficient "historical data" and how many hits would you need to determine that the struck UAV would not do other than crash straight down?
601 is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2016, 22:18
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,244
Received 188 Likes on 84 Posts
On that basis, no "first of type" or "first time this has been tried" would ever get off the ground, correct?
What a stupid question! First of type go through rigorous design and testing before they even take-off.

The statement
yes it was pure luck that they didn't get hit by any of the fireworks
suggests that this experiment was done with a lot of fingers crossed.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2016, 02:13
  #28 (permalink)  
Keg

Nunc est bibendum
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,583
Received 11 Likes on 2 Posts
Exclamation

G'day 601. I'd want to know how well the UAV flies after having one of its rotors smashed and the thing turned on its side. Maybe it'd plummet straight down. Maybe it wouldn't. I'd want to know how well it recovers from a hit to the electronic control box. IE when the 'link' is cut. Then do that with the rotor out. Then a couple of rotors out.

We aren't talking about a first flight of a type. We're talking about flying a known type into a completely hostile environment. It's basically a combat zone but one with hundreds of thousands of people hanging around as close as possible to an exclusion zone that was designed for fireworks, not errant UAVs.

Fly just above the fireworks, beside them, heck, even from below and to the side. Through them though?
Keg is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2016, 12:34
  #29 (permalink)  
601
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Age: 77
Posts: 1,472
Received 17 Likes on 13 Posts
First of type
By type I was referring to the operation NOT the aerial vehicle.
601 is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2016, 12:51
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
These multirotor autopilots sacrifice altitude control for the inner control loops which provide aircraft attitude stability through differential thrust. A loss or partial loss of power to one or more motors in an autopilot mode will cause the remaining motors to reduce power and the aircraft will descend. Of course the most likely scenario is the machine immediately loses stability and crashes.

The wreckage will be found very close to where the original issue occurred in either case.

The likelihood of a "fly away" event due to getting hit by fireworks is so remote it does not need additional control measures to reduce that risk further.
asdf84000 is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2016, 19:41
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,861
Received 167 Likes on 94 Posts
Have a read of the ATSB report on the Melbourne MCG drone as it lost control (and had a fly-away occurrence) possibly due to saturated frequency airwaves due to the high number of mobile phones due to the footy match. How many phones etc were there for NYE???
Squawk7700 is online now  
Old 3rd Jan 2016, 19:45
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
i thought it was television transmissions from vans parked below it that was teh cause of that one? as mobile phones are ona differeing frequency, but television is pretty close.
Ultralights is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 03:05
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,861
Received 167 Likes on 94 Posts
Originally Posted by Ultralights
i thought it was television transmissions from vans parked below it that was teh cause of that one? as mobile phones are ona differeing frequency, but television is pretty close.
Right you are UL, hence my use of the term "etc" to cover the full spectrum of frequencies :-)
Squawk7700 is online now  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 10:42
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Squawk7700
Have a read of the ATSB report on the Melbourne MCG drone as it lost control (and had a fly-away occurrence) possibly due to saturated frequency airwaves due to the high number of mobile phones due to the footy match. How many phones etc were there for NYE???
From ATSB report summary, my bolding.

The operator’s investigation into the accident concluded that radio frequency interference was the most likely cause of the accident.
...
The operator acknowledged that further testing and analysis was required before the primary cause of the accident could be confirmed beyond doubt.


Given the profile of this incident, it would have been very beneficial to the sector for the ATSB to have conducted or arranged an independent investigation into the cause of this accident and based the report on actual evidence.

The availability of autopilot telemetry would show very specifically what went wrong.
asdf84000 is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2016, 10:23
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: NSW
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Investigation: AO-2015-112 - In-flight break-up involving a DJI S900 remotely piloted aircraft, at Toowoomba, Qld on 19 September 2015

Although short, this one makes for some interesting reading. This one could have ended very differently!
Creepy Beard is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2016, 23:05
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK/OZ
Posts: 1,886
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Squawk7700

But, are they safer than a single engined Squirrel overhead at night? Probably.
Probably NOT.

In the period 2000 to 2013 there were over 150 crashes of helicopters and a few fixed wing, whilst engaged in aerial filming or photography.
Whilst there were scores of crew injured or killed in these accidents, no member of the public was reported injured or hospitalised.

Yet filming drones have already injured bystanders and members of the public.

So whilst drones are far safer than helicopters for their crew they are not yet safer for the public.

I'd agree that unless a independently powered kill switch with a dedicated receiver was used, then there was a risk of partial damage by fireworks and loss of control that could send the craft off into a crowd, rather than straight down.

Note: The incredible record of filming pilots keeping the public safe was broken last year when a news chopper fell from a rooftop helipad and crashed into a car, killing its driver.


Mickjoebill
mickjoebill is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2016, 11:22
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Whilst there were scores of crew injured or killed in these accidents, no member of the public was reported injured or hospitalised.
Does this not prove that there are huge areas available in which to crash even sizable aircraft with little risk of hitting a person?

Drone operators both recreational and professional must continue to improve performance in managing the risks, but let's not overstate the real risk to the public.
asdf84000 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.