Swinburne Bachelor of Aviation 2016

[colebertos]

Hi Guys,

I have applied for the Bachelor of Aviation at Swinburne, coming from a rather low socio-economic background I see it as my only real chance at a career in aviation. So far I've spent ever penny I've ever been able to save just getting myself to Melbourne.

I received an e-mail the other week telling me I had been shortlisted and i'm required to attend an interview and skills assessment at CAE at Moorabbin airport next week; is there anyone on here that has attended such an interview? are there any pointers that they could give me? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

My grandfather was a well renowned bush pilot in Tassie and as such I've inherited the aviation bug at a young age, this opportunity really means a heap to me; I'm really trying to give it my best shot!

Thanks in advance to anyone that could help me out!

[peterc005]

The integrated courses are tough to complete, take a lot of work and have a high drop out rate.

The interview is probably a "filter" to knock out those who have no chance of completing the course before they start and incur a significant debt.

Show that you understand a bit about the aviation industry, what is involved to complete and the course, and more than anything have the motivation.

If you have the required ENTER score getting in won't be too hard. There are a few tricks to improving your chances of completing an integrated course. Mainly being prepared and dedicated, and not just trying to cruise along.

[rpiya1]

Hey,
I recently went over to New Zealand and went through the assessment session for CTC Aviation and was successful. (CTC Aviation and CAE Oxford are both European companies that compete with each other so I think the assessment will be similar). The selection involved the PILAPT Aptitude tests which test hand eye coordination, multitasking, use of joystick etc. If possible you should purchase joystick for $15 on Gumtree and get used to it. Download FlightGear if you want (Free). After that there was a mental arithmetic test (15 Questions to complete in 15 Minutes). I found it pretty easy but some people found it difficult. Depends on your knowledge I guess. After that I had to present a mini lecture to see if I have the communication skills to become a flight instructor - don't think this will apply to you as I was applying for training with a guaranteed flight instructor job at the end. Finally there was an hour interview about yourself, aspirations, customer service abilities etc. Have some examples for this and should be fine. I would feel that CAE would have a similar selection process minus the mini lecture.


Best of luck.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hi Mr C,

I do not know whether this applies to your situation or not, but, in respect of flying training 'generally', students should be very wary of paying substantial $$'s UP FRONT!

On these pages you will read of some wannabees who are asked to pay 'in advance', only to find that sometimes the money just 'disappears'....

Pay-as-you-go may be an answer....if you are able to arrange that.

Rotsa Ruck
Cheers

[Seabreeze]

Read the fine print

I note that rpiya1 says:

"I was applying for training with a guaranteed flight instructor job at the end. "

rpiya1, I strongly recommend that you check the fine print: I have never seen such a guarantee in writing as no training school can guarantee you will even pass a CPL let alone an instructor rating if they have an objective assessment process.

Seabreeze

[colebertos]

Thanks for all your help guys!

I am confident with the structure of the program, from what I understand it is an identical program to that of the Qantas Cadetship.

The reason I have chosen to do the bachelor is because it allows me to defer the majority of the costs under the help/hecs loan scheme.

Unfortunately I was put in a situation during year 12 where I had to drop out of school and work, as such I don't have the entry score or ATAR. I moved to Melbourne in July to start an Advanced Diploma of Engineering Technology, also at Swinburne, as a pathway into the bachelor of aviation, I have achieved a GPA of 4 (High Distinction) in all the units completed so far; I'm really praying that this is enough to demonstrate I am capable.

Im the type of guy who will move heaven and earth to be a part of the aviation industry, and I hope the effort I have put in and the sacrifices i've made in the past 12 months demonstrates that to the interviewers and assessors.

Thanks again for all your help guys! If you have any other pointers I'm all ears!

[dartman2]

Having been in the industry for a while and having gone through both the GA and military training systems, I personally would not waste your money.

If you really want to fly apply to your preferred branch of the ADF. If you can get one or two flying postings followed by a degree in Engineering, Law, Medicine etc you will have a far more rewarding (satisfaction and financial) career all funded by the Commonwealth and reasonably well paid.

If you apply and get knocked back or fail the course at least you gave it a go.

[Squawk7700]

I know someone that completed their CPL with a rural based training provider on the promise of getting a job at the end.

The training provider did indeed hold up their end of the arrangement. They gave the fresh CPL a job... ONE job... from the local airfield to Moorabbin (80 miles) in their Cherokee 6 and return. After that, it was goodbye.

Agreed... read the fine print !!

(PS: This is a true story and the operator is still happily running his outfit. I am still dumbfounded as to how this situation could have occurred; it musn't have been discussed in much detail)

[colebertos]

The ADF was actually my first choice, I attended a YOU Session and completed the aptitude test and recieved and almost perfect mark. Unfortunately due to some mild asthma (feel a bit wheezy once every year) I was unable to sign up. :/

I've looked at private training providers, all are way out of my budget, all the cadetships seem to have gone belly up. This program is really shaping up to be my best option, and as long I dedicate myself to it, I see myself being quite successful by the end of it.

I know not many people are a fan of these bachelor programs, because a licence is basically worthless unless you have the hours to back you up, but I'm not expecting to be in the right hand seat of an a320 any time soon; I fully believe in starting off in GA, and if I had the money, or even access to the money it is where I would be starting, but unfortunately, as much as my family would love to help me achieve my dreams, they can't do it at the expense of not being able to put food on the table.

[ChaseIt]

Been through it, if you are can't afford to pay for the flying elsewhere then go for it! Otherwise if you have the coin spend it up north after you finish the university side of things.

As for the interview you just have to want it! Have the drive, determination, passion etc. Above all else don't lie, if they ask you how many gold balls could fit in a jumbo don't make up a random figure maybe say it depends on the type of jumbo and config but you have no idea...

Things may be a bit different to when I did it but honesty, integrity and determination I believe are what got me through it.

Good luck kid

[rpiya1]

Hey Seabreeze,
The flight instructor position is a condition offer of employment provided you pass all the licences.

Basically you fund 30k of personal funds + 70k of student loans for the PPL, CPL, and Ratings. They then fund/scholarship of $40,000 for the Instructor Rating.

You only spend 100k overall which is comparable to other VET-FEE HELP Approved Flight Training Organisations. Flight Training Adelaide is $110K I believe.

At the end of the course, worst case scenario is that they don't offer you a position as a Flight Instructor. You've still only spent the same amount as another VET-FEE Help Approved course but also have a Instructor Rating which you didn't pay the 40k for. You can then maybe use that to find hours somewhere else.

Furthermore CTC Aviation has a great brand image and run the cadetships for Qatar Airways, British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, Royal Brunei Airlines and also run some of the crew resourcing programs for other airlines.

However as Dartman2 said, the ADF is the best if you can get in. I was a bit too late with my applications so I only had my Assessment Day a few weeks ago and I'm now waiting for the ADFA Officer Selection Board in April. CTC is my back up plan.

CTC Wings

[flyingminer]

Colebertos,
How'd your assessment day go mate? I've got mine in a couple of weeks

[melbournerebels]

Swinburne/ CAE Skills assessment and interview

Hi all,
I too have my skills assessment and interview next week and would love to hear anything about it as I am financially making a gamble for it.

I would love to hear anything about it as I am very eager to get accepted into the course to pursue a career in aviation.

Thank-you very much for you time in reading this, i am looking forward to hearing from you soon.

[melbournerebels]

Also this may be worth a read

https://captaingordon.wordpress.com/...ford-aviation/

[colebertos]

Hi guys, sorry for the sluggish reply.
The skills assessment & interview went well.

I started off with the interview, it was a joint interview with a flight instructor from CAE and a representative from Swinburne. Basic what would you do in this situation type of questions, a couple of questions I was asked off the top of my head were
'have you ever had to work with someone you didn't get along with?',
'have you ever done something you've regretted?',
'ever diagnosed and rectified an issue before it became a bigger problem?'
and found that they were the same questions all interviewees were asked.

My interviewers were really good and the interview ended with a casual conversation about home and ended up leaving with a couple of good tips for a career in aviation.

Skills assessment involved some basic maths questions, some spatial awareness (Be careful as the questions are asked in a strange way and it took me a couple to realise what was going on, the multiple choice answers are there twice) and hand-eye co-ordination which involved a joystick and using the y axis and rotational movement to keep a target centred on a ball.

I wore business attire, but pretty soon felt over dressed when all but one other candidate was wearing smart/casual, but still better to look professional i guess

Thanks all for your help!

[mcgrath50]

I wore business attire, but pretty soon felt over dressed when all but one other candidate was wearing smart/casual, but still better to look professional i guess

The others were under dressed.

[Centaurus]

and hand-eye co-ordination which involved a joystick and using the y axis and rotational movement to keep a target centred on a ball.

Ah! Ye olde bouncing ball tests. I wonder how many hundreds of would be pilots have bombed out on those hand and eye coordination tests and been told `you'll never make a pilot`

The RAAF ran a similar bouncing ball test at the recruiting centre in Rushcutters Bay in Sydney 60 years ago. A candidate I knew underwent the test and failed. Fortunately for him the flight sergeant who operated the bouncing ball test knew the candidate's father from WW2 where they had served in the same squadron.

He told the candidate that he would never make a pilot because the contraption never fails. However, since the flight sergeant knew the candidate's father from the old days, he said he would let the candidate through the test but warned him he would certainly never get through a RAAF Pilot course.

The candidate whose name was Mike started his pilot training course at RAAF Base Uranquinty in NSW. I was his flying instructor there and on 17 January 1956 I did Mike's first dual flight in a Tiger Moth A17-705. Over the following months I taught him to fly the Tiger Moth and Wirraway. He then went to RAAF Point Cook for final advanced flying training which included dive bombing and air to ground machine gun firing. He eventually graduated as a Sergeant Pilot with the coveted Wings on his chest.

Mike was posted to Mustangs and Vampires. In the few years he flew Sabres, and other types and became the CO of a RAAF C130A Hercules squadron as a Wing Commander. One of his postings was CO in charge of the recruiting centre at Rushcutters Bay where he had failed the bouncing ball aptitude test many years before.

One evening when all the recruiting staff had gone home for the day, he opened the door to where the bouncing ball machine was kept and switched on its power. He ran the full test on himself and guess what? He failed! So much for the infallible device who proved he would never make a pilot.

So to all those bright-eyed and bushy tailed candidates going for the pilot aptitude test at Oxford CAE or wherever, if you miss out and fail the bouncing ball test, don't think you will never make a pilot. Just go and learn to fly somewhere else.

[flyingminer]

Just out of curiosity, what is a good score for the coordination test with the joystick? I had my assessment today and there were two blokes who scored 91 and 75. I got 183...so was interested to know how one is scored? And what is a good score?

[melbournerebels]

I only got sixty something, the sideways controls didn't seem to be working or was that just me?

[colebertos]

My score was 198 from memory, the side to side movement was substituted for the rotational movement on the joystick.

I found taking a couple of deep breaths, relaxing and just focusing on the task really helped