The General Aviation Industry is Being Destroyed
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The General Aviation Industry is Being Destroyed
In an article in this morning’s Australian newspaper under the heading “CASA Boss to Tackle Regulation Problems” (reproduced in entirety below) there is absolutely no mention of the real problem with the new rules – and that is the cost increases that result from these new rules.
Let me quote some of the comments,
It’s as if Mr Skidmore, because of his military background, has no idea that the problem with the new regulations is the drastically increased costs that come from them. The general aviation industry is being destroyed and because of this.
I wonder if Mr Skidmore has been told by the Minister “whatever you do, don’t mention cost.” Then again, if you’re from a military system that could lose $1.4 billion of taxpayers’ money on the Super Seasprite project and hold no one accountable and no doubt promote the people that were involved, you can see what happens.
I don’t think Mr Skidmore understands that it won’t matter how much more consultation you take, if you won’t admit that the problem is higher costs compared to our competitor countries you actually get nowhere. Here in the article it says,
Note once again, no mention of cost.
I predict that things will get worse and worse. I suggest to everyone that they get out of aviation as soon as you can, sell your planes because you are going to be in for huge losses in the future. Here is the full article...
Let me quote some of the comments,
“complaints continue about the implementation of the previous rule packages……anomalies raised by the regulations have already been introduced.
…..conceded the authority had not done well with implementing the new rules”
…..conceded the authority had not done well with implementing the new rules”
I wonder if Mr Skidmore has been told by the Minister “whatever you do, don’t mention cost.” Then again, if you’re from a military system that could lose $1.4 billion of taxpayers’ money on the Super Seasprite project and hold no one accountable and no doubt promote the people that were involved, you can see what happens.
I don’t think Mr Skidmore understands that it won’t matter how much more consultation you take, if you won’t admit that the problem is higher costs compared to our competitor countries you actually get nowhere. Here in the article it says,
“on the problems with recently implemented regulations Mr Skidmore said “I don’t think we’ve sorted it out too well at this stage.”
I predict that things will get worse and worse. I suggest to everyone that they get out of aviation as soon as you can, sell your planes because you are going to be in for huge losses in the future. Here is the full article...
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority is poised to launch an online tool and hold a series of meetings in an attempt to avoid the problems that have dogged the implementation of new aviation rules and upset many in the flying community.
Complaints continue about the implementation of previous rule packages, particularly the Part 61 pilot licensing and Part 141/142 flight training regulations.
CASA chief Mark Skidmore is keen to avoid a repeat of problems as new rules are rolled out in areas such as flight regulations, air transport operations, sports aviation and limited category aircraft operations.
He is also diverting more resources inside CASA to try some of the issues and anomalies raised by the regulations that have already been introduced.
Mr Skidmore conceded the authority had not done well with implementing new rules in the past and needed to work out how to do it better into the future.
“The other part of it is if we look at the regs that we still have remaining there’s about 12 and some of them are significant,’’ he said. “What I want to do — well want and need I guess, you can probably put them together — is work with the aviation community to actually understand what’s the best timeline for these.’’
He said some people wanted new regulations implemented immediately while others said they were unable to handle the pace.
“And my own resources are actually fairly stretched with regards to actually implementing them so I want to get a better idea. Before I come out with it I’d like to talk to people and get a better idea of how we can do this.’’
CASA is holding a series of consultation meetings starting this month in Launceston, Hobart, Moorabbin, Darwin, Albury, Bankstown and Brighton Le Sands in Sydney.
It is also launching an online consultation tool in the coming weeks that will allow members of the aviation community to be part of the consultation process.
“It’s not just for this, but I see it as an opportunity into the future … for other areas like Flight Planning 2030 forums that I’m having,’’ Mr Skidmore said. “We’ll have an opportunity for people to be able to feed in information to us without actually having to be there for the forums.
“I also want to try and get to is a stage where we’ll have feedback available on the websites as well.’’
On the problems with recently implemented regulations, Mr Skidmore said: “I don’t think we’ve sorted it out too well at this stage so I’ve actually told my team that I want to get more focus on (Parts) 61, 141, 142.
“I’m actually taking some resources off other areas and putting them together and saying let’s get some more focus on to this and let’s make sure we solve these concerns.’’
Mr Skidmore was appointed last year in the wake of the Aviation Safety Regulation Review as part of moves to mend the fractured relationship between CASA and the aviation industry by fostering greater consultation.
The review headed by former Qantas executive David Forysth found the regulator’s ‘‘hardline approach” to enforcement was inappropriate and had led to a lack of trust between CASA and operators.
The government also brought in new CASA board members, appointed industry veteran Jeff Boyd as chairman and issued a fresh statement of expectations to the authority. The process continued yesterday with the appointment to the board of Philippa Stone, a lawyer with experience on the Airservices Australia board and with the International Air Services Commission.
Mr Skidmore said the regulator was also “rolling on whole bunch of different programs to try to get, I think, better communication and consultation with the industry’’.
He said he been out in the aviation community attempting to get an understanding of people’s concerns.
“It is important that we understand how it’s going to impact people,’’ he said. “I don’t want to roll things out there to people without understanding what it really means to them because that just doesn’t make any sense to me.
The CASA boss is aware that he will not be able to please everyone. “There will still be some people who won’t be happy because they’ll complain it should have been done earlier, it should have been done later — you’ll never come up with the absolute sweet, perfect solutions but we’ll do the best we damn well can.’’
Complaints continue about the implementation of previous rule packages, particularly the Part 61 pilot licensing and Part 141/142 flight training regulations.
CASA chief Mark Skidmore is keen to avoid a repeat of problems as new rules are rolled out in areas such as flight regulations, air transport operations, sports aviation and limited category aircraft operations.
He is also diverting more resources inside CASA to try some of the issues and anomalies raised by the regulations that have already been introduced.
Mr Skidmore conceded the authority had not done well with implementing new rules in the past and needed to work out how to do it better into the future.
“The other part of it is if we look at the regs that we still have remaining there’s about 12 and some of them are significant,’’ he said. “What I want to do — well want and need I guess, you can probably put them together — is work with the aviation community to actually understand what’s the best timeline for these.’’
He said some people wanted new regulations implemented immediately while others said they were unable to handle the pace.
“And my own resources are actually fairly stretched with regards to actually implementing them so I want to get a better idea. Before I come out with it I’d like to talk to people and get a better idea of how we can do this.’’
CASA is holding a series of consultation meetings starting this month in Launceston, Hobart, Moorabbin, Darwin, Albury, Bankstown and Brighton Le Sands in Sydney.
It is also launching an online consultation tool in the coming weeks that will allow members of the aviation community to be part of the consultation process.
“It’s not just for this, but I see it as an opportunity into the future … for other areas like Flight Planning 2030 forums that I’m having,’’ Mr Skidmore said. “We’ll have an opportunity for people to be able to feed in information to us without actually having to be there for the forums.
“I also want to try and get to is a stage where we’ll have feedback available on the websites as well.’’
On the problems with recently implemented regulations, Mr Skidmore said: “I don’t think we’ve sorted it out too well at this stage so I’ve actually told my team that I want to get more focus on (Parts) 61, 141, 142.
“I’m actually taking some resources off other areas and putting them together and saying let’s get some more focus on to this and let’s make sure we solve these concerns.’’
Mr Skidmore was appointed last year in the wake of the Aviation Safety Regulation Review as part of moves to mend the fractured relationship between CASA and the aviation industry by fostering greater consultation.
The review headed by former Qantas executive David Forysth found the regulator’s ‘‘hardline approach” to enforcement was inappropriate and had led to a lack of trust between CASA and operators.
The government also brought in new CASA board members, appointed industry veteran Jeff Boyd as chairman and issued a fresh statement of expectations to the authority. The process continued yesterday with the appointment to the board of Philippa Stone, a lawyer with experience on the Airservices Australia board and with the International Air Services Commission.
Mr Skidmore said the regulator was also “rolling on whole bunch of different programs to try to get, I think, better communication and consultation with the industry’’.
He said he been out in the aviation community attempting to get an understanding of people’s concerns.
“It is important that we understand how it’s going to impact people,’’ he said. “I don’t want to roll things out there to people without understanding what it really means to them because that just doesn’t make any sense to me.
The CASA boss is aware that he will not be able to please everyone. “There will still be some people who won’t be happy because they’ll complain it should have been done earlier, it should have been done later — you’ll never come up with the absolute sweet, perfect solutions but we’ll do the best we damn well can.’’
Dick, why don't you just call him up and ask him if he understands all this? It's got to be more productive and illuminating than constantly ranting and grandstanding on Pprune, if not as personally gratifying.
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I believe the point Dick is making is that Skidmore doesn't or won't listen. Therefor PPRune is the proper forum to air these concerns. I do know CAsA read these forums because I posted only yesterday a glaring mistake made with regard the CAsA Launceston soiree to glean yet more industry input and during the subsequent posts the CAsA site made the necessary amendments to the stuff up.
What exactly is it that urges people to try to shut Dick up?
What exactly is it that urges people to try to shut Dick up?
I believe the point Dick is making is that Skidmore doesn't or won't listen. Therefor PPRuNe is the proper forum to air these concerns.
What exactly is it that urges people to try to shut Dick up?
Frank, itsnotthatbloodyhard is ex-military himself so I would expect that kind of response. Moving from the military to an airline as he has will usually make you forget about those little people that fly GA.
I'll happily have Dick campaigning for reducing my costs any day of the week
I'll happily have Dick campaigning for reducing my costs any day of the week
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I think he protests too much. The R&F see through that sort of thing.
Dick is doing something. Skidmore is doing nothing.
Dick is doing something. Skidmore is doing nothing.
Last edited by Frank Arouet; 11th Sep 2015 at 04:28. Reason: Why did the auto censor remove "d*th"?
How about some facts?
A breakdown of the operating costs of an aircraft and a GS organisation would add some credibility to the rants on this site.
What evidence does anyone have that nothing is being done? The Minister delivered the government response to the ASRR to CASA at the beginning of June 2015.
Skidmore has established and run a successful aviation business in the past and he is an aircraft owner so has some awareness of the industry outside the RAAF.
A few fact checks would make all this more credible!!
A breakdown of the operating costs of an aircraft and a GS organisation would add some credibility to the rants on this site.
What evidence does anyone have that nothing is being done? The Minister delivered the government response to the ASRR to CASA at the beginning of June 2015.
Skidmore has established and run a successful aviation business in the past and he is an aircraft owner so has some awareness of the industry outside the RAAF.
A few fact checks would make all this more credible!!
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I think he protests too much. The R&F see through that sort of thing.
Dick is doing something. Skidmore is doing nothing.
Dick is doing something. Skidmore is doing nothing.
You and I agree on many things, and just like Leadsled we probably agree on far more than we disagree, but I have to say on this topic, from my direct involvement with both individuals over the years, one has done far more on the positive side of the ledger.
On the statement you made above, we will not be able to agree. The evidence strongly supports the opposite in my experience. Even as recently as yesterday.
Cheers
The first rule of making a complaint is to tell the person you are complaining to what you want...
While I admire your sentiment Dick many times I think you fail to get what you want because you do not articulate what needs changing to fix things. Take the new part 61 for instance, what bits would you want changed to reduce cost to industry? Would it be flight reviews or what?
While I admire your sentiment Dick many times I think you fail to get what you want because you do not articulate what needs changing to fix things. Take the new part 61 for instance, what bits would you want changed to reduce cost to industry? Would it be flight reviews or what?
The second rule of complaining is not to make it personal....
You can speak with passion, emotion and enthusiasm but stick to the logic of your argument. As soon as you attack the individual your chances of getting what you want drop dramatically. When you are complaining, you only get what you want when the other person concedes something. Are they likely to help someone out who has just insulted them?
You can speak with passion, emotion and enthusiasm but stick to the logic of your argument. As soon as you attack the individual your chances of getting what you want drop dramatically. When you are complaining, you only get what you want when the other person concedes something. Are they likely to help someone out who has just insulted them?
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It is only the Director that can make the necessary change in culture so that the organisation concentrates on removing every unnecessary cost.
There is no hint of that. Unfortunately the opposite if you read his recent letters.
Re Part 61 it's simple. Remove every requirement that resulted in an increase in cost as there was no safety issue being addressed .
Mr Skidmore just talks about how it could have been better implemented not that it should not have been implemented at all.
GA is being destroyed by military people who are no doubt genuine but don't understand the fine margins in GA.
There is no hint of that. Unfortunately the opposite if you read his recent letters.
Re Part 61 it's simple. Remove every requirement that resulted in an increase in cost as there was no safety issue being addressed .
Mr Skidmore just talks about how it could have been better implemented not that it should not have been implemented at all.
GA is being destroyed by military people who are no doubt genuine but don't understand the fine margins in GA.
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edsbar And what about Part 66? Oh that's right we have all dropped out pants, bent over and had sand thrown up our arse before being well and truely f&@$d over
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edsbar Part 66 isn't mentioned in that article so obviously you have no issues 
No WA , QLD or SA ? No flying there ?. Maybe those locations aren't announced yet ? Link on website anyone ?
Launceston, Hobart, Moorabbin, Darwin, Albury, Bankstown and Brighton Le Sands in Sydney
Therefor PPRuNe is the proper forum to air these concerns.
As for this being a proper forum for airing these concerns, I think you're having a lend of yourself if you think venting on here achieves anything beyond gratifying the cheer squad.
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It's clear that nothing works. That's why I have made the warning to get out before more money is lost.
It's clear Mr Truss gives no direction in relation to reducing costs.
And I understand he has informed his party that he plans to stand again.
Mr Albanese does not appear to have any vision in relation to the GA part of his shadow portfolio .
A good Chairman but you need more than that- note how Mr Skidmore supports the system and its previous decisions.
That's probably why Mr Mrdak supported the employment of Mr Skidmore.
Bankstown is getting worse and worse- almost dead!
And I don't see the slightest light on the horizon .
It's clear Mr Truss gives no direction in relation to reducing costs.
And I understand he has informed his party that he plans to stand again.
Mr Albanese does not appear to have any vision in relation to the GA part of his shadow portfolio .
A good Chairman but you need more than that- note how Mr Skidmore supports the system and its previous decisions.
That's probably why Mr Mrdak supported the employment of Mr Skidmore.
Bankstown is getting worse and worse- almost dead!
And I don't see the slightest light on the horizon .
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Dick our estimate between 15 and 20% increase in overheads due to the new regulations, unfortunately more to come which I firmly believe are unsustainable. We are losing a lot of work to New Zealand because their cost base is considerably less than ours. They have sensible regulations, maintenance costs alone are a third cheaper than here.
When it takes 18 months and a couple of hundred K to obtain an AOC, when it costs a hundred grand to gain approval to operate a new type, its mico managed madness, what safety issue were they trying to fix??
We now have unqualified inexperienced people in CAsA dictating how aircraft are to be operated. Its only a matter of time and there will be a major incident, who will accept liability?
Regarding Bankstown, it wont exist in Five years if the development sharks get hold of it. Whats next' privatize our national parks perhaps?
When it takes 18 months and a couple of hundred K to obtain an AOC, when it costs a hundred grand to gain approval to operate a new type, its mico managed madness, what safety issue were they trying to fix??
We now have unqualified inexperienced people in CAsA dictating how aircraft are to be operated. Its only a matter of time and there will be a major incident, who will accept liability?
Regarding Bankstown, it wont exist in Five years if the development sharks get hold of it. Whats next' privatize our national parks perhaps?
I've an idea no_one: Lets's get some independent experts to do a review of aviation safety regulation in Australia. Let's get them to gather submissions and distil the key issues of concern - objectively and stripped of anything personal or emotional - and make recommendations for improvement.
Then Mr Skidmore would have some recommendations, made by independent experts based on their objective assessment of the submissions, for much-needed improvement.
Oh wait - that's right, precisely that kind of review was done and precisely those kinds of recommendations were made, and Mr Skidmore dismissed them as "one person's opinion."
He's now defendiing Part 61. His handling of the CVD issue shows that he's not willing or able to be convinced by objective evidence and objective risk assessments.
He's well and truly captured by the people who've run CASA for the last couple of decades. But for the money he's paid, I'd actually pity him.
Then Mr Skidmore would have some recommendations, made by independent experts based on their objective assessment of the submissions, for much-needed improvement.
Oh wait - that's right, precisely that kind of review was done and precisely those kinds of recommendations were made, and Mr Skidmore dismissed them as "one person's opinion."
He's now defendiing Part 61. His handling of the CVD issue shows that he's not willing or able to be convinced by objective evidence and objective risk assessments.
He's well and truly captured by the people who've run CASA for the last couple of decades. But for the money he's paid, I'd actually pity him.
short flights long nights
Being a victim of 89, I have been overseas for 24 years. I went to Jandakot today for the first time in 20 years. I was shocked at what I saw. The place is almost dead. Seriously, I could have let of a atom bomb there, and not killed anyone.
This whole user pays thing, has killed GA.
It's very very sad.
If I was put in charge, I would change the whole system back to how it was..a regulatory system helping the industry.
And much to Dicks disgust, reopen flight service units all around the country.
And ban landing fees, circuit fees, all Casa fees, the whole bloody lot.
I fear GA in Australia is on the way out. And that is very, very sad.
This whole user pays thing, has killed GA.
It's very very sad.
If I was put in charge, I would change the whole system back to how it was..a regulatory system helping the industry.
And much to Dicks disgust, reopen flight service units all around the country.
And ban landing fees, circuit fees, all Casa fees, the whole bloody lot.
I fear GA in Australia is on the way out. And that is very, very sad.
