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Reporting Of Incidents?

Old 7th Sep 2015, 03:42
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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A simple factual report is all that is needed.
Is that actually going to come from someone who was driving past at the time?

The whole opening post / thread is operating under an assumption that the Pilot in Command isn't going to bother to report this... guilty until proven innocent. It would take a brave man to not report this at the risk of his licence, fines, jail, not to mention issues with his insurance company.

What's gained if he is right- everything, most probably at the cost of some more training....
More training? It would be a moderately rare occurence for the ATSB or CASA to request more training for such an event.

It seems that there would be little to be gained by a third-party to report this kind of incident.

I know of an incident where a third-party reported it and got the rego wrong which left an innocent party to defend themselves to prove that they were not involved. The reporter simply needed to pss off and butt out! which is what most of us think should happen here!
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 04:17
  #22 (permalink)  
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Exactly what I did Squark, what i wanted to check was if I can get into any trouble by NOT reporting.

BTW since I've been sailing since age 9, I can judge wind speed and direction pretty well. I thought the bloke was going to taxi to the other end of the strip until he gunned it. What got my attention was him dragging it off the ground only to settle back heavily about Five seconds later after starting to drop the right wing. The aircraft finished up with the nose a meter from the fence after demolishing part of the airstrip sign with its right wing. Very lucky guys. I'm glad he had the presence of mind to abort the takeoff when he did.
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 04:24
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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When it comes to an incident/accident, I don't think "silence" is an appropriate response.
Some people know to do the right thing, others only do when pushed and others don't know what is right.
Unfortunately aviation is in the public area for all to see the results of a bad decision. We must all accept that our actions in these aircraft can and will be called into question from time to time and reasonably so.
Hence if u don't know to do the right thing, would the knowledge that big brother is watching make you do the right thing?
I hope it would not need to.

Anyway as I said too many mates lost due to stupid stuff becoming a part of the operational culture..... Safety, safety, safety..........
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 04:26
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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So why did you start the thread as a hypothetical? If you wanted to know if you were required to report it why didn't you just look up the requirements of the TSI Act or ring the ATSB? If you wanted to stir things up and have people dump on you - well done mission accomplished.
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 04:48
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Exactly what I did Squark, what i wanted to check was if I can get into any trouble by NOT reporting.
Get some sleep, you are obviously still tired from the weekend.

For future reference; Motorists on their way from Coles to their house are not required to report aviation incidents to the ATSB or CASA. I'm sure that's in the CAO's somewhere If you witness a crime on the other hand, call Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000.

BTW since I've been sailing since age 9, I can judge wind speed and direction pretty well.
I presume there was a dam nearby then.
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 05:09
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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I think you boys need to take a chill pill.

Not suggesting the following technique but in this type of situation (where you haven't used very good judgement nor P charts) it's been known that the application of full flap and subsequent "ballon" followed by a "missed approach" style clean up could save your arse, and airframe damage.

Just saying, not condoning :P
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 06:45
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Folks,
For your consideration and delectation, despite the fact that Australia is a signatory to the relevant conventions, the Australian definition of an accident is a little different to ICAO Annex 13, I do hope Australia has filed a difference.

It is not a big difference, but probably bears on whether what Sunny saw was an accident or an incident.

Tootle pip!!

3 Definitions TSIA ACT 2003
In this Act, unless the contrary intention appears: accident means an investigable matter involving a transport vehicle where:
(a) a person dies or suffers serious injury as a result of an occurrence associated with the operation of the vehicle; or
(b) the vehicle is destroyed or seriously damaged as a result of an occurrence associated with the operation of the vehicle; or
(c) any property is destroyed or seriously damaged as a result of an occurrence associated with the operation of the vehicle.

ICAO Annex 13
Accident.
An occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until such time as all such persons have disembarked, in which:
a) a person is fatally or seriously injured as a result of:
— being in the aircraft, or
— direct contact with any part of the aircraft, including parts which have become detached from the aircraft, or
— direct exposure to jet blast,
except when the injuries are from natural causes, self-inflicted or inflicted by other persons, or when the injuries are to stowaways hiding outside the areas normally available to the passengers and crew; or
b) the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure which:
— adversely affects the structural strength, performance or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and
— would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component, except for engine failure or damage, when the damage is limited to the engine, its cowlings or accessories; or for damage limited to propellers, wing tips, antennas, tires, brakes, fairings, small dents or puncture holes in the aircraft skin; or
c) the aircraft is missing or is completely inaccessible.

Last edited by LeadSled; 7th Sep 2015 at 06:51. Reason: typo
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 10:21
  #28 (permalink)  
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Aircraft is sitting here, so presumably all protocols are being followed.

12 -14 knots? Anyone who sails knows that this is the top end for a number One light genoa. …and can judge it to a tee.
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 11:49
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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I still recall a QF 747 having an 'incident' in Bangkok. A golf course was involved from what I remember.
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 13:45
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Para377,
Hence the remarks in my original post.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 15:17
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Sunfish, when you bent the firewall of the hired Cessna 172 at Moorabbin, how many people driving past on Centre Dandenong road lodged an ATSB incident report?
Come on Sunny, a few of us still waiting on your answer to this.
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 20:38
  #32 (permalink)  
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YPJT, there was nothing to see except for the folk in the tower. They thought my landing technique was so bad they called me in before I could do even worse. How that came to be is another story.

It is however rather rare to see a major "bounce" on take off which is what got my attention on Sunday.
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Old 7th Sep 2015, 23:55
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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So Sunny did you provide the pilot with your name and number so that he could include in his report of the incident to the ATSB that there was a witness?
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Old 8th Sep 2015, 03:36
  #34 (permalink)  
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Question

Struth, you blokes!

Why is there so much finger pointing and general hostility on this site these days?
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Old 8th Sep 2015, 06:42
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Pinky,
It just reflects the attitudes in GA in Australia, in part a result of the atmosphere generated by CASA. But only in part, there has long been a very unhealthy atmosphere around aviation in Australia, unlike every other country, in which I have flown.
In particular, the differences in attitude between AU and US/NZ/CA could not be a more stark contrast.
Could this have something to do with the reasonably healthy state of GA in US/NZ/CA versus the serious malaise in AU.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 8th Sep 2015, 06:48
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe it is also that in NZ/USA/CA, pilots do not go to anonymous forums looking for justification to be a snitch.
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Old 8th Sep 2015, 06:58
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Or maybe it's just the Australian nanny state culture. We need to prescribe rules for everything verse trusting citizens to do the right thing and accept individual responsibility.
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Old 8th Sep 2015, 11:48
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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It appears so.....
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Old 8th Sep 2015, 12:15
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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YPJT, Greenie,
Probably they are all elements of the problem here in AU.
We have really made a mess of aviation in Australia.
Tootle pip!!
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