An Ode to Flyboat North - Why is he so angry?
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An Ode to Flyboat North - Why is he so angry?
I’ve been a PPRuNer for many years. It helped me make the transition from the military to the airlines many years ago with the help of Keg and many others who helped me with what to expect from the recruitment process. It’s also been an invaluable, albeit informal, source of information, gossip, anger management and a great place to vent with people of the same profession.
There are also, of course, people not in the profession who have an interest in flying and use PPRuNe to help demystify what happens on the other side of the security door. Of course their questions and input is most welcome.
Never, have I ever come across an individual on this forum that seems to have the sole motive of stirring the pot. Determined to denigrate the profession in general, and Qantas pilots in particular.
In an attempt to try and work this guy out, I did a little bit of research. My quest was to work out why he hates pilots so much. It’s been an interesting voyage of discovery.
So what makes Flyboat North so angry? Here are some of his posts from the not distant past.
23 Apr 2013
Then 22 May 2013 Under Jetstar Pilot Cadet Program
The Next Day:
After Questions from other forum members on the same day, the following:
Further:
So our resident expert has all the info on the Jetstar recruitment process, yet it seems has now gone cool on not only the idea of a Jetstar cadetship, but has also decided that the whole cramped confines of a flight deck are not for him.
Yet, on 13 Jun 2013, the following from our intrepid aviation expert:
Further, on the same day, under the thread ANZ SO Recruitment:
So, it seems he’s telling everyone the flying game is not for him, yet is now actively seeking to convert his license so he can fly in NZ.
Although, it appears he’s had a change of heart. 30 July 2013 under the thread Virgin Australia Cadetship 2012 & 2013:
Then, on the same day, under the thread Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme we have:
Not to be put off we have this on 12 Mar 2014, now looking to SIA:
I did read further, but it seems I now have my answer. That is, why is Flyboat North so angry at the world, and pilots in particular?
Reading between his lines, its pretty clear he tried and failed. He’s tried Jetstar, Virgin, AirNZ, AirNZ Regional and others, but it seems nobody wants his services.
Now that’s OK. Not everyone is cut out to be a pilot. That’s not to say he’s not suited to another profession. This is a realization faced by many that have tried the flying game and either decided it’s not for them, or had the decision made for them. That’s life, get over it. Unfortunately a small percentage of people just can’t let go of a grudge. Maybe they are part of the entitled generation where every child gets a prize, and a sense of failure isn’t realized until quite late in life.
Unfortunately for us, FBN has decided his way of getting back at the pilot profession is to scream and yell and stamp his feet in a rather embarrassing display of an adult tantrum.
There are also, of course, people not in the profession who have an interest in flying and use PPRuNe to help demystify what happens on the other side of the security door. Of course their questions and input is most welcome.
Never, have I ever come across an individual on this forum that seems to have the sole motive of stirring the pot. Determined to denigrate the profession in general, and Qantas pilots in particular.
In an attempt to try and work this guy out, I did a little bit of research. My quest was to work out why he hates pilots so much. It’s been an interesting voyage of discovery.
So what makes Flyboat North so angry? Here are some of his posts from the not distant past.
23 Apr 2013
VET Funding for MECIR in Melb
Hold a CPL and wish to complete MECIR which flying schools in Melbourne area currently have this approval, my understanding is that Oxford and TVSA currently are signed off. Does anyone know the mechanisms/rules of doing training under VET in terms of could you do it part time etc ? Any other schools got the tick in the box yet ? Thanks and feel free to PM
Hold a CPL and wish to complete MECIR which flying schools in Melbourne area currently have this approval, my understanding is that Oxford and TVSA currently are signed off. Does anyone know the mechanisms/rules of doing training under VET in terms of could you do it part time etc ? Any other schools got the tick in the box yet ? Thanks and feel free to PM
Here is the deal:
• 60 ab-initios per year 30 each flying school
• Junior FO wage for first two years , base around 60K
• onto standard contract after two years or when you get ATPL ,whichever comes first, standard aus contract that is
• Out of pocket Oxford - around 40K
• Out of pocket CTC - around 100K
• No repayment of company loan , around 45K until year 3 of employment
• Based in either Syd, Melb , Brisbane when you graduate
• first 18 months increased checks supervision.
So 60 less positions per year for direct entry pilots , Virgin not hiring , so therefore some don't like these programs
• 60 ab-initios per year 30 each flying school
• Junior FO wage for first two years , base around 60K
• onto standard contract after two years or when you get ATPL ,whichever comes first, standard aus contract that is
• Out of pocket Oxford - around 40K
• Out of pocket CTC - around 100K
• No repayment of company loan , around 45K until year 3 of employment
• Based in either Syd, Melb , Brisbane when you graduate
• first 18 months increased checks supervision.
So 60 less positions per year for direct entry pilots , Virgin not hiring , so therefore some don't like these programs
Back Up
• Pretty easy really just call Simon Lutton from the AFAP on 03 9928 5737 he will confirm the arrangements - knows them well as he played a role in negotiating them
• Google Jetstar Pilot EBA 2008 , junior FO around $60K base for two years then onto standard payscale of around $90K base
• Add at least 20% to base
The people who don't like these programs are:
• Those who don't get selected
• Flying schools who don't have the training contracts
• Pretty much every GA/Regional pilot in Australia who aspires to the majors - as every cadet place means one less direct entry. Tough gig for these people as QF - not hiring, Virgin - not hiring (small cadetship) , Jetstar - QF transfers and cadets only. Sorry guys flying a jet with the majors - it just ain't gonna happen for most of you
• Military pilots - who are looking to transition to an airline job - none there unless you like sand
• Pretty easy really just call Simon Lutton from the AFAP on 03 9928 5737 he will confirm the arrangements - knows them well as he played a role in negotiating them
• Google Jetstar Pilot EBA 2008 , junior FO around $60K base for two years then onto standard payscale of around $90K base
• Add at least 20% to base
The people who don't like these programs are:
• Those who don't get selected
• Flying schools who don't have the training contracts
• Pretty much every GA/Regional pilot in Australia who aspires to the majors - as every cadet place means one less direct entry. Tough gig for these people as QF - not hiring, Virgin - not hiring (small cadetship) , Jetstar - QF transfers and cadets only. Sorry guys flying a jet with the majors - it just ain't gonna happen for most of you
• Military pilots - who are looking to transition to an airline job - none there unless you like sand
After Questions from other forum members on the same day, the following:
Not on the course - sitting in a confined space with other blokes - not for me I think.
Done a bit , not a whole lot , just wouldn't aspire to the flight deck of a Boeing or Airbus - but goodluck to those that do.
I would think that those who are trying to get an job with an rpt Jet operator in Aust, it really would be very grim wouldn't it.
How many DEs would have been hired by Virgin , Jetstar in 2011,12,13 , forget Qantas obviously - wouldn't be many would it ?
Some chances with FIFO but hardly big numbers.
I would think that those who are trying to get an job with an rpt Jet operator in Aust, it really would be very grim wouldn't it.
How many DEs would have been hired by Virgin , Jetstar in 2011,12,13 , forget Qantas obviously - wouldn't be many would it ?
Some chances with FIFO but hardly big numbers.
Yet, on 13 Jun 2013, the following from our intrepid aviation expert:
Converting Aust CPL to NZ CPL
I know this has been asked , just couldn't find the thread.
As we know there is a fast track method of conversion via TTMRA.
The thread I saw mentioned some "mountain awareness" training maybe ten hours that would have to be done for an Aust CPL to convert to NZ CPL.
Obviously this would have to be done in NZ - anyone got any good recommendations , for a 500 or so hour CPL , but fly really for personal business travel. So perhaps not looking so much at the "airline type" academies.
Would actually like to combine it with a CIR , to take advantage of the exchange rate.
One more question. Those converting an Australian ATPL to NZ ATPL - do they have to do this or not necessary considering the higher levels they fly at
I know this has been asked , just couldn't find the thread.
As we know there is a fast track method of conversion via TTMRA.
The thread I saw mentioned some "mountain awareness" training maybe ten hours that would have to be done for an Aust CPL to convert to NZ CPL.
Obviously this would have to be done in NZ - anyone got any good recommendations , for a 500 or so hour CPL , but fly really for personal business travel. So perhaps not looking so much at the "airline type" academies.
Would actually like to combine it with a CIR , to take advantage of the exchange rate.
One more question. Those converting an Australian ATPL to NZ ATPL - do they have to do this or not necessary considering the higher levels they fly at
Do Australians have to first convert from a CASA licence to a NZ licence prior to lodging an application ?
Or can this be done once an offer is made ?
Or can this be done once an offer is made ?
Although, it appears he’s had a change of heart. 30 July 2013 under the thread Virgin Australia Cadetship 2012 & 2013:
How accurate is the PATS website in saying HECS debt of $75K plus company loan of $40K which you are required to pay back from year 1 - meaning first year of training or work.
So incur a debt of $115K - that is just for the FTA part ? What about aircraft endorsements etc , more $$ you have to pay or bond ?
But paid a "training" wage of around $50K whilst at FTA, so clear say $42K whilst at FTA.
The website is contradictory in that it states no contribution expected from student during training , company funds the part up to pre PPL , but clearly a debt is incurred ??
$115K sounds about right for the FTA program ??
So incur a debt of $115K - that is just for the FTA part ? What about aircraft endorsements etc , more $$ you have to pay or bond ?
But paid a "training" wage of around $50K whilst at FTA, so clear say $42K whilst at FTA.
The website is contradictory in that it states no contribution expected from student during training , company funds the part up to pre PPL , but clearly a debt is incurred ??
$115K sounds about right for the FTA program ??
Is the advanced program open now to non HKID holders or not. When you look at the cadet recruitment website it says HK only.
Is this actually correct - I knew the ab-initio was HKID only - and quite correct doing that I think.
If advanced is now open to HKID only - does anyone know when or if this restriction might be lifted.
Tried contacting company directly , never respond to an email, never answer a phone call
Is this actually correct - I knew the ab-initio was HKID only - and quite correct doing that I think.
If advanced is now open to HKID only - does anyone know when or if this restriction might be lifted.
Tried contacting company directly , never respond to an email, never answer a phone call
Noticed on the afap website (www.afap.org.au click jobs) that SIA flying school are advertising for flying instructors , little bit confused really. How do they still have students if no SIA cadetship hiring since a long time (couple of years) . Are they private students or are they just trickle feeding through the last couple of ever SIA cadets , or private sponsor maybe ?
When did SIA last actually hire cadets ?
When did SIA last actually hire cadets ?
Reading between his lines, its pretty clear he tried and failed. He’s tried Jetstar, Virgin, AirNZ, AirNZ Regional and others, but it seems nobody wants his services.
Now that’s OK. Not everyone is cut out to be a pilot. That’s not to say he’s not suited to another profession. This is a realization faced by many that have tried the flying game and either decided it’s not for them, or had the decision made for them. That’s life, get over it. Unfortunately a small percentage of people just can’t let go of a grudge. Maybe they are part of the entitled generation where every child gets a prize, and a sense of failure isn’t realized until quite late in life.
Unfortunately for us, FBN has decided his way of getting back at the pilot profession is to scream and yell and stamp his feet in a rather embarrassing display of an adult tantrum.
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I for one get quite a laugh out of his ramblings.
He does have a habit of either going missing or changing the subject when questions are asked of his 'facts'.
Don't hate the world cos you couldn't make the grade FBN!
He does have a habit of either going missing or changing the subject when questions are asked of his 'facts'.
Don't hate the world cos you couldn't make the grade FBN!
IsDon - what made this thread magic is that when I view it there is an ad for a "Diploma of Counselling" at the end😆
Fly is angry for sure. A deep sense of frustration that projects itself as spite and venom in rants and raves that is quite transparent when you look at their post history. I would be interesting to know what this person is like. I'm sure someone out there knows who they are and the real-life persona they project. Do they manage to hide their rage and contempt in person, or is it there for all to see? A interesting study of human psychology it would make!
Fly is angry for sure. A deep sense of frustration that projects itself as spite and venom in rants and raves that is quite transparent when you look at their post history. I would be interesting to know what this person is like. I'm sure someone out there knows who they are and the real-life persona they project. Do they manage to hide their rage and contempt in person, or is it there for all to see? A interesting study of human psychology it would make!
Gees Don! On a Sunday arvo no less! I hope it's just 4 am in dallas!
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Gees Don! On a Sunday arvo no less! I hope it's just 4 am in dallas!
I just thought, he's such a character he deserved a thread of his own.
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Firstly, let me state that I am not a mate of "Flyboat North" nor do I have any idea who this person is.
If the above examples are some of their worst work, then I say they are nowhere near the worst on this web site.
Some people see the glass as half empty, others see it as half full. I believe the difference is less than 1%?
Nothing to see here folks, move along.
If the above examples are some of their worst work, then I say they are nowhere near the worst on this web site.
Some people see the glass as half empty, others see it as half full. I believe the difference is less than 1%?
Nothing to see here folks, move along.
Firstly, let me state that I am not a mate of "Flyboat North" nor do I have any idea who this person is.
If the above examples are some of their worst work, then I say they are nowhere near the worst on this web site.
If the above examples are some of their worst work, then I say they are nowhere near the worst on this web site.
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IsDon well done,
One of the more gentlemanly and definitely the best take-downs on my 18 years of lurking on pprune
FBN has the wrong attitude to get a job in aviation, but keep trolling the replies sometimes make my day
One of the more gentlemanly and definitely the best take-downs on my 18 years of lurking on pprune
FBN has the wrong attitude to get a job in aviation, but keep trolling the replies sometimes make my day
I don't get in here much anymore, and I'm well removed from cadet threads etc, but from the writing, subject, grammar and syntax it sounds like s/he's a strategist consultant -on the QF payroll.
Andreas Lubitz : Germanwings
Lubitz left Montabaur at the age of 20 in 2007 to begin his commercial pilot's training in the northern German city of Bremen.
It was a year into his training that he appears to have suffered the breakdown and took a break, before returning to qualify.
A mother of a schoolmate told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung that he had told her daughter he had taken a break from his pilot training because he was suffering from depression.
"Apparently he had a burnout, he was in depression," said the woman, whom the paper did not name.
She said her daughter had seen him again just before Christmas and that he had appeared normal. She added he was a "lovely boy". "He had a good family background," she told the paper.
By the time of the accident he was still relatively inexperienced, having notched up only 630 hours of flying time, compared to the flight's captain, who had flown for more than 6,000 hours and had worked for Lufthansa for 10 years.
The Uniklinik hospital in Dusseldorf confirmed that it had treated Lubitz in recent weeks but said it was not for depression.
Investigators are working on the theory that Lubitz was motivated by the fear he could lose his pilot’s licence over his health, according to German press reports.
But the focus has moved from issues with Lubitz’s eyesight to his mental health.
A source close to the investigation told Bild newspaper that Lubitz had recently visited several different doctors about the same problem.
One theory being considered is that he was trying to avoid a psychiatric diagnosis.
Lubitz visted the University Hospital Düsseldorf three times between February and March 10 this year.
Sources also told the newspaper that Lubitz wanted a break from work – but did not want to take sick leave for fear it could endanger his career.
It was a year into his training that he appears to have suffered the breakdown and took a break, before returning to qualify.
A mother of a schoolmate told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung that he had told her daughter he had taken a break from his pilot training because he was suffering from depression.
"Apparently he had a burnout, he was in depression," said the woman, whom the paper did not name.
She said her daughter had seen him again just before Christmas and that he had appeared normal. She added he was a "lovely boy". "He had a good family background," she told the paper.
By the time of the accident he was still relatively inexperienced, having notched up only 630 hours of flying time, compared to the flight's captain, who had flown for more than 6,000 hours and had worked for Lufthansa for 10 years.
The Uniklinik hospital in Dusseldorf confirmed that it had treated Lubitz in recent weeks but said it was not for depression.
Investigators are working on the theory that Lubitz was motivated by the fear he could lose his pilot’s licence over his health, according to German press reports.
But the focus has moved from issues with Lubitz’s eyesight to his mental health.
A source close to the investigation told Bild newspaper that Lubitz had recently visited several different doctors about the same problem.
One theory being considered is that he was trying to avoid a psychiatric diagnosis.
Lubitz visted the University Hospital Düsseldorf three times between February and March 10 this year.
Sources also told the newspaper that Lubitz wanted a break from work – but did not want to take sick leave for fear it could endanger his career.
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So it sounds like this guy has finished the J* cadetship and didn't make the cut after. Fair enough and it is a tough road....
That being said, it is funny that he excludes himself completely as being above working in GA yet he probably would've had the hours by now (if he went GA) to qualify for those jobs that he so passionately wants, but will sit on his hands until its handed to him on a silver platter.
This guy embodies all the negative traits we could associate with cadets and I'm glad that for once the industry has excluded such a character.
Sincerely,
Someone that made it via GA...
Unhumbly
That being said, it is funny that he excludes himself completely as being above working in GA yet he probably would've had the hours by now (if he went GA) to qualify for those jobs that he so passionately wants, but will sit on his hands until its handed to him on a silver platter.
This guy embodies all the negative traits we could associate with cadets and I'm glad that for once the industry has excluded such a character.
Sincerely,
Someone that made it via GA...
Unhumbly
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FBN & his less obnoxious cousin BNEA320, fall into one of three categories,: bull****ters, deliberate agents of misdirection & disinformation or just plain mental illness.
The really interesting observation is their lack of emotional response to criticism of them on these boards. They just ignore pages of criticism about them. Very few emotionally engaged individuals can sit back an ignore multiple posts pillorying them without a hint of anger. This leads to the conclusion that their "heart" really isn't in it, they are emotionally disconnected from the deliberate controversy they seek to stir up. This is the "tell": They don't genuinely believe what they are writing.
There are some excellent references for the first two of these categories. On Bull**** by Harry Frankfurt, which builds on an earlier essay The Prevalence of Humbug by Max Black.
Disinfo / Agitprop agents: The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies.
The disinfo reference will also give a guide on how to spot and "Angel" on the board, and general techniques to manipulate forums.
The really interesting observation is their lack of emotional response to criticism of them on these boards. They just ignore pages of criticism about them. Very few emotionally engaged individuals can sit back an ignore multiple posts pillorying them without a hint of anger. This leads to the conclusion that their "heart" really isn't in it, they are emotionally disconnected from the deliberate controversy they seek to stir up. This is the "tell": They don't genuinely believe what they are writing.
There are some excellent references for the first two of these categories. On Bull**** by Harry Frankfurt, which builds on an earlier essay The Prevalence of Humbug by Max Black.
Disinfo / Agitprop agents: The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies.
The disinfo reference will also give a guide on how to spot and "Angel" on the board, and general techniques to manipulate forums.
Last edited by CurtainTwitcher; 25th Aug 2015 at 02:32.
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The subject of this thread made a post on another thread that was such that it provoked me to make the comment quoted below;
A few other fellow Ppruners made comments of their own.
His post that provoked my comment subsequently disappeared.
Flyboat North; I have been a PPRuNe member for quite some time now, but I can honestly state that I have never ever read a post with such venom, bitterness, hatred and twisted content such as yours.
I enjoy reading posts from ppruners such as Ida down and Teresa green (where is he these days?)
If you do not, feel free to skip over them, but do not denigrate such people.
I enjoy reading posts from ppruners such as Ida down and Teresa green (where is he these days?)
If you do not, feel free to skip over them, but do not denigrate such people.
A few other fellow Ppruners made comments of their own.
His post that provoked my comment subsequently disappeared.
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I guess what got to me was this particular individual who seems to make it his sole purpose to troll these forums in a misguided attempt to bolster his self esteem by denigrating the professions, achievements and employers of the professional aviators on this forum.
That prompted me to research why this person does what he does. Once I found that out I thought the others on this forum that have been attacked by this troll may be interested in his motivation.
I didn't destroy this person's credibility. By his actions he did a pretty good job of that all on his lonesome.
