North up or Track up
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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If you were taught to map read correctly back in your day VFR PPL stage, you would have had a map on your lap orientated to 'track up' so that you could read 'map to ground' comparing the map and the outside world in the same orientation.
For the North Uppers, have you seen those tests where they show you a multisided figure, drawn with many different faces, then they give three more similar drawings, only one of which is the same object from a different angle? Well that is what you are doing to yourself if you fly North Up, giving the brain extra, unnecessary work. Great on a nice day, when all is peace and quiet, but when things start going wrong you may need all your available brain power to cope with the aeroplane. Relating the map to the ground you are just comparing two, (hopefully!), identical pictures and not having to do mental gymnastics trying to orientate yourself! Just my two penneth.
Thread Starter
Great on a nice day, when all is peace and quiet, but when things start going wrong you may need all your available brain power to cope with the aeroplane. Relating the map to the ground you are just comparing two, (hopefully!),
It's not normally an issue for me, as don't we all read the Melways or Sydways with North up?
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Ive not had the privilege of too much time in a glass cockpit.
With a map on the knee, track up in flight. A map in planning on the ground or quick enroute diversion, accurate track finding, north up.
Melways or other road maps when actually used to navigate by on the go, track up. Stopped and planning, north up.
With a map on the knee, track up in flight. A map in planning on the ground or quick enroute diversion, accurate track finding, north up.
Melways or other road maps when actually used to navigate by on the go, track up. Stopped and planning, north up.
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If you were taught to map read correctly back in your day VFR PPL stage, you would have had a map on your lap orientated to 'track up' so that you could read 'map to ground' comparing the map and the outside world in the same orientation. It makes sense to set up your GPS map the same way - heading up or track up. Much less mental re-arranging required with less potential errors to form the correct picture in your head!
Not many crossroads, rivers or railway lines out in the Pacific or even Bass Strait but those old sailors managed to get where they were going with North up all the way. So far, I have too.
How good are you at plotting a quick compass course on your paper chart folded track up?
Kaz
You can't get track up on airbus (as far as I am aware) and on embraer jets. All heading up..much prefer track up..
Metric is also available if desired.
The feminine side...
After decades of a map in the lap, track up, so the ground features were in relationship to the intended travels, it all worked out OK with stick, pencil, clock and compass. And correct turn for any diversion was never a problem
That the nautical nav chap, may plot the course north up..as we do, off the chart, the helmsman chappie/ess just points the ship in the direction of the compass course reqd...and his/her view in a sense would be 'track up' as any particular land or island would pass on the appropriate side. Hopefully.
That the nautical nav chap, may plot the course north up..as we do, off the chart, the helmsman chappie/ess just points the ship in the direction of the compass course reqd...and his/her view in a sense would be 'track up' as any particular land or island would pass on the appropriate side. Hopefully.
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Sorry Captain, but I learned to navigate from people who knew how to use sextant, clock and compass before aeroplanes took to the sky. They navigated across the oceans at the time when even radio aids were in their absolute infancy so I sort of reckon I learned the real shebang.
have worked alongside RAF Tornado crews and I am pretty sure the Nav uses North up.
I have my own thoughts that 99% of those that call and say that they are 5 or 10 miles to the east when they are actually to the west are using track up
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+1 for North up. VFR recreational/commuter pilot.
My instructor told me to "do it the way that feels right and helps you paint a mental picture. There is no 'right' way"
When I did my flight test, the ATO asked me about it in the early stages of my flight. She said "I notice on your maps you fly north up. Why?"
I said it just feels right. Plus I don't have to stare at it to read it sideways or upside down.
ATO said "Great"
When I asked if it was common, I was told, "It's like left handed people, they do stuff a little different but the result is the same and right handed people accept them even though it looks odd." with a smile.
I am into a bit of large scale RC flying and have done since I was a kid. Is it possible that makes me more comfortable with left from right tracking back towards myself?
My instructor told me to "do it the way that feels right and helps you paint a mental picture. There is no 'right' way"
When I did my flight test, the ATO asked me about it in the early stages of my flight. She said "I notice on your maps you fly north up. Why?"
I said it just feels right. Plus I don't have to stare at it to read it sideways or upside down.
ATO said "Great"
When I asked if it was common, I was told, "It's like left handed people, they do stuff a little different but the result is the same and right handed people accept them even though it looks odd." with a smile.
I am into a bit of large scale RC flying and have done since I was a kid. Is it possible that makes me more comfortable with left from right tracking back towards myself?
Why resort to the squat to piss insult/justification? Maybe little merit in any valid argument?
Sure Amelia Earhart kicked the siht out of any that make the gender argument in terms of flying (and espescially navigational) ability.
(oops....damn cats gotten out again!!!)
Only "valid" excuse I've heard for the north up argument is that they couldn't read words orientated any other way.
Sure Amelia Earhart kicked the siht out of any that make the gender argument in terms of flying (and espescially navigational) ability.
(oops....damn cats gotten out again!!!)
Only "valid" excuse I've heard for the north up argument is that they couldn't read words orientated any other way.
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At typical GA speeds / altitudes there is no doubt, it is north up!! 
It is an interesting thought.... I did a lot of RC flying as a kid too and as you see I ended up in the church of north up as well.
I am into a bit of large scale RC flying and have done since I was a kid. Is it possible that makes me more comfortable with left from right tracking back towards myself?
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For GA flying, why does it have to be one or the other? The handheld Garmin 795 I use for GA flying does both automagically. North up when zoomed out (for seeing the bigger picture) and track up when zoomed in for tracking purposes. Having both as an option when needed would certainly aid in better situational awareness.
Maps, track up. Charts for in-cockpit use, track up.
It's much easier to directly relate to the outside world.
Naval Charts, north up. Not enough space for track up, nor is one moving fast enough for it to matter, and there's too much writing and symbology that would be harder to absorb at an angle. I was taught and teach North Up for charts on offshore yachts. I was taught and teach making up a track up sketch map for pilotage situations.
High Level aircraft nav charts, if the same conditions apply as for naval charts, then North Up.
What may be causing the confusion was the plan view display on the Tornado F3, which could only show North Up. It could have a few green nav points and lines dropped in, and also gave a God's Eye view on the radar tracks.
The moving map in the GR version was pretty much always Track Up, I believe. That was certainly how moving maps were used in other RAF mud movers (e.g. Jag, Harrier).
There were benefits to North Up when on Combat Air Patrol, due to the racetrack pattern flown, and it could also be better than track up to relate 'Bullseye' calls from 'Magic' (AWACS).
The other TV Tab displayed the Radar picture and was effectively always Track Up.
The pilot had a single TV and could switch between either. I always carried a real map, track up, for stuff like escort missions.
As a civvy light aircraft instructor, I always taught track up.
And for completeness:
Land orienteering, track up
underwater scuba navigation, track up.
(I've taught both of those, too).
It's much easier to directly relate to the outside world.
Naval Charts, north up. Not enough space for track up, nor is one moving fast enough for it to matter, and there's too much writing and symbology that would be harder to absorb at an angle. I was taught and teach North Up for charts on offshore yachts. I was taught and teach making up a track up sketch map for pilotage situations.
High Level aircraft nav charts, if the same conditions apply as for naval charts, then North Up.
What may be causing the confusion was the plan view display on the Tornado F3, which could only show North Up. It could have a few green nav points and lines dropped in, and also gave a God's Eye view on the radar tracks.
The moving map in the GR version was pretty much always Track Up, I believe. That was certainly how moving maps were used in other RAF mud movers (e.g. Jag, Harrier).
There were benefits to North Up when on Combat Air Patrol, due to the racetrack pattern flown, and it could also be better than track up to relate 'Bullseye' calls from 'Magic' (AWACS).
The other TV Tab displayed the Radar picture and was effectively always Track Up.
The pilot had a single TV and could switch between either. I always carried a real map, track up, for stuff like escort missions.
As a civvy light aircraft instructor, I always taught track up.
And for completeness:
Land orienteering, track up
underwater scuba navigation, track up.
(I've taught both of those, too).
Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 13th Aug 2015 at 18:34.
Whatever works and gets the stude able to navigate to the required standard.
Personally I prefer North up for my own orientation. Some people prefer track up, Problems arise when an instructor insists on one or the other without allowing for differences between individuals and insists that thiers is the only way. I use aircraft GPS and car sat nav North up as well.
Personally I prefer North up for my own orientation. Some people prefer track up, Problems arise when an instructor insists on one or the other without allowing for differences between individuals and insists that thiers is the only way. I use aircraft GPS and car sat nav North up as well.
