Proof that DAS Skidmore is a new broom
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but cannot confirm, that a career spent in a rigid hierarchy does not make for free thinking and a light approach to regulation, but I'd love to be proved wrong.
On my first day in DCA it seemed to me over-endowed with office upon dreary office of Public Service shell-backs whose main ambition in life was to knock back any ideas from the aviation industry outside DCA; and also from those unfortunates inside the Department that dared make waves and suggest improvements. In 2015, I sense that attitude has not changed.
Perhaps it was inevitable that as formerly keen and dynamic RAAF pilots joining DCA as junior public servants rose over the years to higher seniority in the Public Service, they learned to cover their arses by becoming more cautious in decision making, lest some Assistant Secretary gnome on the Executive Floor mark him down as a trouble-maker and thus cause the perceived perpetrator to remain in the lower class of ranks for the rest of his chair-borne career. I again sense things haven't changed much in this regard.
Last edited by Tee Emm; 24th Aug 2015 at 14:50.
TeeEmm,
I rather suspect that if you were back there today, you would find that what has been named "the iron ring" have raised risk aversion to a whole new level since Sir Don's day --- and it was bad then.
Tootle pip!!
I rather suspect that if you were back there today, you would find that what has been named "the iron ring" have raised risk aversion to a whole new level since Sir Don's day --- and it was bad then.
Tootle pip!!
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in the magazine thing that accompanies the Aviation Trader there is an article on page 7 about the guy in Dubbo.
The article is called Wings out West.
The guy is ex-raaf. from the article the sun is shining on this guy. being ex-raaf I'll bet he never has a refusal from CAsA, never has an adversarial ramp check, and if the local economy is robust enough he should prosper.
I'd love for the writer of the article, to ensure a uniform reporting style, to conduct a similar article on Gerald Repacholi. As far as I know all he has ever tried to do is run a similar aviation business.
Gerald is not ex-raaf and has suffered a life of CAsA embuggerment.
The different experiences of trying to run an aviation business would be eye opening I'm sure.
The article is called Wings out West.
The guy is ex-raaf. from the article the sun is shining on this guy. being ex-raaf I'll bet he never has a refusal from CAsA, never has an adversarial ramp check, and if the local economy is robust enough he should prosper.
I'd love for the writer of the article, to ensure a uniform reporting style, to conduct a similar article on Gerald Repacholi. As far as I know all he has ever tried to do is run a similar aviation business.
Gerald is not ex-raaf and has suffered a life of CAsA embuggerment.
The different experiences of trying to run an aviation business would be eye opening I'm sure.
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The AUSFLY at Narromine will be a deciding factor in the poll above. I would suggest it remain up there until after the event to see how well the DAS' new broom works in the popularity stakes.
I wonder how many years it will take until the "too soon to decide"s make a decision. Governments bank on them hanging on for at least a few, after each new saviour is appointed.
I voted 'no', not because I think Mr S isn't smart enough (I'm confident he's very smart) and not because I think Mr S isn't a good bloke (I'm confident he's a great bloke) and not because I think Mr S doesn't have good intentions (I'm confident he means well).
However, I'm also confident that almost none of his experience will help him to bring about any substantial changes, and the early signs indicate that he's fitting quite snugly - maybe even comfortably - into the straightjacket that comes with the big office and the big paypacket.
BTW: Anyone know when and where the next "Aviation industry forum - 2015 to 2030" is being held? The first one was held miles from the nearest airport, during working hours. It was a bit inconvenient for people like me who need to fly to get to places and have to work to live - I understand that there are a number of people like me in the aviation community. Still, it must have been gruelling for Mr S's offsiders to have to hang around in Mildura pretending to care. I do hope their travel arrangements and allowances covered them for a nice meal at Stefano's.
I voted 'no', not because I think Mr S isn't smart enough (I'm confident he's very smart) and not because I think Mr S isn't a good bloke (I'm confident he's a great bloke) and not because I think Mr S doesn't have good intentions (I'm confident he means well).
However, I'm also confident that almost none of his experience will help him to bring about any substantial changes, and the early signs indicate that he's fitting quite snugly - maybe even comfortably - into the straightjacket that comes with the big office and the big paypacket.
BTW: Anyone know when and where the next "Aviation industry forum - 2015 to 2030" is being held? The first one was held miles from the nearest airport, during working hours. It was a bit inconvenient for people like me who need to fly to get to places and have to work to live - I understand that there are a number of people like me in the aviation community. Still, it must have been gruelling for Mr S's offsiders to have to hang around in Mildura pretending to care. I do hope their travel arrangements and allowances covered them for a nice meal at Stefano's.
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Well how about this for some abstract consideration...
What if one were to go back to the example offered earlier somewhere with regards to a company's CEO and take the view that Aviation (in its totality) was a company (for example) with a large number of members (i.e. those involved as pilots / engineers / ATC / whatever) that was spread wide across Australia. The newly appointed CEO of course being M.S.
As everyone knows the most common mechanism for communication within such a large company is usually by way of electronic means with limited opportunities presenting whereby a CEO can personally address a well represented members cross section in speaker/ audience format, especially where members attend at their own expense.
I would think that given the recency of appointment that any smart CEO would be offering himself, and some members from Senior Management, as a guest speaker at the upcoming Ausfly to perhaps address the members...
Short notice I know but what the heck. Maybe you could ammend the Poll to include a reference to such an appearance....
Stiky
What if one were to go back to the example offered earlier somewhere with regards to a company's CEO and take the view that Aviation (in its totality) was a company (for example) with a large number of members (i.e. those involved as pilots / engineers / ATC / whatever) that was spread wide across Australia. The newly appointed CEO of course being M.S.
As everyone knows the most common mechanism for communication within such a large company is usually by way of electronic means with limited opportunities presenting whereby a CEO can personally address a well represented members cross section in speaker/ audience format, especially where members attend at their own expense.
I would think that given the recency of appointment that any smart CEO would be offering himself, and some members from Senior Management, as a guest speaker at the upcoming Ausfly to perhaps address the members...
Short notice I know but what the heck. Maybe you could ammend the Poll to include a reference to such an appearance....
Stiky
Mark Skidmore told the Mildura forum a range of issues need to be considered. “I can think of new technology, changing demographics of people involved in aviation, regional aviation versus city-based operations, ageing aircraft, the growth of remotely piloted aircraft and developing our safety culture just to name a few issues,” he said. “Importantly, we need to think about the future of regional and general aviation, costs and how these sectors will remain viable. CASA doesn’t hold all the knowledge so I need to listen to the aviation community and we need to work together.” Issues raised at the forum included the future of Avgas, the sustainability of general aviation, adapting to new technology, the need for better representation of the flying training sector, alternative means of compliance, costs of regulations and ageing aircraft.
I once met a bloke running a GA outfit who had never been in the RAAF and CASA hadn't come after him. Only one though, all the rest were targeted.
I wasn't aware of anyone casting doubt on Mr S's parentage or capacity to state the bleeding obvious or listen to other people stating the bleeding obvious.
Whatever Mr S's parentage, capacity to state the bleeding obvious and listen to other people state the bleeding obvious may be, the point is that none of it changes thing one about what needs to be changed.
I'm confident that most of the "too soon to decide"s will watch as Mr S talks and listens, talks and listens, talks and listens, and keep watching until they wake up one morning and come to the disturbing conclusion that nothing has really changed for the better.
Mr S nailed his colours to the mast with his response to the colour vision deficiency issue. Mr S listened then demonstrated an unwillingness or inability to consider, understand and act on the objective evidence. So much for evidence-based and risk-based decision making.
Whatever Mr S's parentage, capacity to state the bleeding obvious and listen to other people state the bleeding obvious may be, the point is that none of it changes thing one about what needs to be changed.
I'm confident that most of the "too soon to decide"s will watch as Mr S talks and listens, talks and listens, talks and listens, and keep watching until they wake up one morning and come to the disturbing conclusion that nothing has really changed for the better.
Mr S nailed his colours to the mast with his response to the colour vision deficiency issue. Mr S listened then demonstrated an unwillingness or inability to consider, understand and act on the objective evidence. So much for evidence-based and risk-based decision making.
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Let nobody be in any doubt that the military have a historic responsibility to the elected government of the day. They, the government, are supposed to represent the voting public who put them there. Myself, once a commissioned officer often failed to take into consideration that factor and now well retired see how the higher echelons of military power accept that the plebs simply don't matter. Haven't since leaving field rank.
Skidmore and his ilk are appointed by the elected government of the day having passed through the lower and into general rank and well after any in house military promotion by ability or examination. They more than ever owe a duty to the elected government of the day who appointed them.
If that government by any name is ambivalent to aviation in Australia sans Airline and Military, that anointed person is not going to do anything to remedy any situation they see as simply perceived. They obviously have blinkered priorities and have lost all objectivity when it comes to carrying out the wishes of the populous who "elected" the government of the day, who "appointed" the individual to carry out the wishes of the government who have lost objectivity towards the people who elected them to look after their priorities.
The government has lost the plot and doesn't care.
The bureaucrats haven't lost the plot and run the show because they can.
Skidmore is a slave of the bureaucrats who have an agenda to rid the skies of aviation that is outside the envelope of the "illiminati" who reserve the right to own the skies free of pesky individuals in "little aeroplanes". ie. anything that is not an airliner or military or belonging to the gods.
Don't look to Skidmore as any sort of savior.
(my opinion of course if that's OK with you).
Skidmore and his ilk are appointed by the elected government of the day having passed through the lower and into general rank and well after any in house military promotion by ability or examination. They more than ever owe a duty to the elected government of the day who appointed them.
If that government by any name is ambivalent to aviation in Australia sans Airline and Military, that anointed person is not going to do anything to remedy any situation they see as simply perceived. They obviously have blinkered priorities and have lost all objectivity when it comes to carrying out the wishes of the populous who "elected" the government of the day, who "appointed" the individual to carry out the wishes of the government who have lost objectivity towards the people who elected them to look after their priorities.
The government has lost the plot and doesn't care.
The bureaucrats haven't lost the plot and run the show because they can.
Skidmore is a slave of the bureaucrats who have an agenda to rid the skies of aviation that is outside the envelope of the "illiminati" who reserve the right to own the skies free of pesky individuals in "little aeroplanes". ie. anything that is not an airliner or military or belonging to the gods.
Don't look to Skidmore as any sort of savior.
(my opinion of course if that's OK with you).
Frank, you assert that Mark Skidmore is a puppet. What's the basis of this, other than prejudice?
I'm baffled by this kind of melodramatic blanket statement:
Honestly, what do you personally know of the guy, why he was appointed or what he may or may not do? Opinion indeed, and very defeatist too.
I'm baffled by this kind of melodramatic blanket statement:
Skidmore is a slave of the bureaucrats who have an agenda to rid the skies of aviation that is outside the envelope of the "illiminati" who reserve the right to own the skies free of pesky individuals in "little aeroplanes". ie. anything that is not an airliner or military or belonging to the gods.
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Frank, I think that is most succinctly put.
The only thing is… deep inside we all know it is possible to make the system change. The only problem is there is not enough heat... yet. There is not enough dissent and too much apathy. There is not enough anger and not enough pain.
There is too much perceived personal risk, a lack of cohesion amongst the aviation community as well as a feeling of helplessness.
Behind the iron curtain of the 80's - it ended up with the young making the brave change - the oldies (35+) all knew what need to happen, but dared not do anything. Fear, the most insidious of diseases, debilitating to hell, is what is holding the entire aviation community prisoner to a small circle of power hungry dictators.
From afar, it seems to me Mr S is nothing but a puppet… in the same style as the so-called Presidents of the communist era. Change will not happen until each and every licence, certificate, authority holder declares a common line.
This may never happen unless there is a force that galvanises the feeling into a cohesive action.
my 2c
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The only thing is… deep inside we all know it is possible to make the system change. The only problem is there is not enough heat... yet. There is not enough dissent and too much apathy. There is not enough anger and not enough pain.
There is too much perceived personal risk, a lack of cohesion amongst the aviation community as well as a feeling of helplessness.
Behind the iron curtain of the 80's - it ended up with the young making the brave change - the oldies (35+) all knew what need to happen, but dared not do anything. Fear, the most insidious of diseases, debilitating to hell, is what is holding the entire aviation community prisoner to a small circle of power hungry dictators.
From afar, it seems to me Mr S is nothing but a puppet… in the same style as the so-called Presidents of the communist era. Change will not happen until each and every licence, certificate, authority holder declares a common line.
This may never happen unless there is a force that galvanises the feeling into a cohesive action.
my 2c
No assured value, No liability. Errors & Omissions Excepted. All Rights Reserved.
WITHOUT RECOURSE – NON-ASSUMPSIT
Volenti non fit injuria
Calls may be recorded
Mr. Arm Out The Window once again wishes to talk "sweet reason" and criticises anyone who finds fault with CASA and argues that the status quo is really quite good as far as he is concerned. I fail to see how he could possibly believe that this is so.
Perhaps his most telling fault is that he studiously avoids any mention of the Forsyth Review and its conclusions.
For the record AOTW, The Forsyth review made the most damning statement it is possible to make in polite company about a public servant or public institution words to the effect that CASA has lost the trust of the industry.
I cannot over emphasise the significance of this conclusion!
WIthout trust, as the review observed, it is impossible for industry to build an effective working relationship with CASA.
No matter how nice and trustworthy Skidmore may appear, he is merely a figurehead of an organisation that has demonstrated that it is untrustworthy and the same trustless people are still running it behind the scenes.
Hence the rejection of the Forsyth review by CASA management.
Hence i fail to see the point of engaging with an untrustworthy organisation. No good can come of it except by accident.
To put that another way, Mr. Horatio Leafblower asked for and received an exemption from the regulations, he could just as easily have been refused one, been targeted, harassed,, bullied and driven out of the industry for his temerity.
To put that yet another way; CASA has been declared by the Forsyth Review not to be a "fit and proper person" to have anything to do with aviation, to use the same weapon beloved of CASA lawyers.
Real reform requires that CASA be broken up, its senior management retired and a new vision implemented. Listening to platitudes about relationships from a well meaning AVM. Skidmore would be reassuring, but he isn't the inspector banging on your hangar door the next morning.
Perhaps his most telling fault is that he studiously avoids any mention of the Forsyth Review and its conclusions.
For the record AOTW, The Forsyth review made the most damning statement it is possible to make in polite company about a public servant or public institution words to the effect that CASA has lost the trust of the industry.
I cannot over emphasise the significance of this conclusion!
WIthout trust, as the review observed, it is impossible for industry to build an effective working relationship with CASA.
No matter how nice and trustworthy Skidmore may appear, he is merely a figurehead of an organisation that has demonstrated that it is untrustworthy and the same trustless people are still running it behind the scenes.
Hence the rejection of the Forsyth review by CASA management.
Hence i fail to see the point of engaging with an untrustworthy organisation. No good can come of it except by accident.
To put that another way, Mr. Horatio Leafblower asked for and received an exemption from the regulations, he could just as easily have been refused one, been targeted, harassed,, bullied and driven out of the industry for his temerity.
To put that yet another way; CASA has been declared by the Forsyth Review not to be a "fit and proper person" to have anything to do with aviation, to use the same weapon beloved of CASA lawyers.
Real reform requires that CASA be broken up, its senior management retired and a new vision implemented. Listening to platitudes about relationships from a well meaning AVM. Skidmore would be reassuring, but he isn't the inspector banging on your hangar door the next morning.
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I fail to see what prolonging discussion with Mr Arm will achieve however I will add for his/her benefit that the basis for my statement is demonstrated in CAsA history. If he/she fails to learn from that I'm afraid there is no hope for him/her. I'm not a defeatist simply a realist. If you need a term to describe the industry however I would say that would be apathetic. Why? Well they have been subject to rule by regulation for so long they no longer believe the rule of law exists any more. Again I concur with Sunfish.
sprocket check: I've watched this apathy for 50 years and done my share of duty with the alphabet soup organizations only to be kicked in the guts and then forced to deal with pissants who believe the answers can be found in more regulation, more restrictions, more mandates, because that's the way it's been since they remember when they were taught so. I've openly advocated civil disobedience but the "alpha male" (and female), syndrome associated with most pilot activists can't agree with each other long enough to mount any action. CAsA's tactic is to divide and destroy and the industry falls for it every time.
Last feasible group I sponsored are still fighting over the acronym to go by. Last whistleblowers of any credibility were forced off on their own and out of the spotlight to deal with Senators and government and run their own risks without industry support.
Mark Skidmore is probably a good bloke. He owns a nice little aeroplane, the last bloke also owned an aeroplane but this didn't make him competent to know what industry needs. The DAS will never know until he takes part as an undercover boss with a disguise to seek out unprejudiced industry input instead of asking people to expose themselves to possible vexatious reprisals.
Civil disobedience will only work with consensus. Failing that a big smoking hole in the ground is the only galvanizing thing that will turn the spotlight on the voting populous for examination. I'm guessing neither you, as I, will get any joy saying I told you so then.
The fall guy then becomes Mark Skidmore who is the fuse between the flying public and government. That's CAsA's primary function. To absolve the government from any culpability.
Mark Skidmore may not be a "naughty boy", but he's not the "messiah" either. He's not the wagon I want to hitch my ride with.
Metaphors and opinions are not copyright (c)
sprocket check: I've watched this apathy for 50 years and done my share of duty with the alphabet soup organizations only to be kicked in the guts and then forced to deal with pissants who believe the answers can be found in more regulation, more restrictions, more mandates, because that's the way it's been since they remember when they were taught so. I've openly advocated civil disobedience but the "alpha male" (and female), syndrome associated with most pilot activists can't agree with each other long enough to mount any action. CAsA's tactic is to divide and destroy and the industry falls for it every time.
Last feasible group I sponsored are still fighting over the acronym to go by. Last whistleblowers of any credibility were forced off on their own and out of the spotlight to deal with Senators and government and run their own risks without industry support.
Mark Skidmore is probably a good bloke. He owns a nice little aeroplane, the last bloke also owned an aeroplane but this didn't make him competent to know what industry needs. The DAS will never know until he takes part as an undercover boss with a disguise to seek out unprejudiced industry input instead of asking people to expose themselves to possible vexatious reprisals.
Civil disobedience will only work with consensus. Failing that a big smoking hole in the ground is the only galvanizing thing that will turn the spotlight on the voting populous for examination. I'm guessing neither you, as I, will get any joy saying I told you so then.
The fall guy then becomes Mark Skidmore who is the fuse between the flying public and government. That's CAsA's primary function. To absolve the government from any culpability.
Mark Skidmore may not be a "naughty boy", but he's not the "messiah" either. He's not the wagon I want to hitch my ride with.
Metaphors and opinions are not copyright (c)
Thread Starter
Sunfish
Hi Sunfish
The sequence of events was this:
1/. Part 61 was released for comment without the copilot/single pilot crap;
2/. Part 61 was made with a whole heap of stuff (including the copilot/single-pilot stuff)
3/. I approached my local office and had a sympathetic hearing; was told it might change and was an "unintended consequence"
4/. Nothing happened
5/. More of nothing happened. Hired new pilots who refused to log co-pilot time as it was in contravention of Part 61.
6/. Local office told me there was "no appetite for change" on the co-pilot issue;
7/. Lobbied local members both lower house and Senate
8/. Had meeting with Skidmore arranged by local-based Senator (no I am not a member of his Party);
9/. Skidmore listened to the problem. I was backed up by the local team leader in my concerns. Skidmore stated that, in his opinion, the outcome was not a good one and my point had merit.
10/. unknown other charter operators in the same market segment advised CASA and their local members of the same problem.
This path is well-worn and I have been down this track before with the Skull and others. The difference is:
11/. Skidmore listened and did something about it.
This is not an exemption for me only; it was not requested by me only; it does not benefit me only. It fixes a problem.
Can you tell me that this development is not a good thing?
The sequence of events was this:
1/. Part 61 was released for comment without the copilot/single pilot crap;
2/. Part 61 was made with a whole heap of stuff (including the copilot/single-pilot stuff)
3/. I approached my local office and had a sympathetic hearing; was told it might change and was an "unintended consequence"
4/. Nothing happened
5/. More of nothing happened. Hired new pilots who refused to log co-pilot time as it was in contravention of Part 61.
6/. Local office told me there was "no appetite for change" on the co-pilot issue;
7/. Lobbied local members both lower house and Senate
8/. Had meeting with Skidmore arranged by local-based Senator (no I am not a member of his Party);
9/. Skidmore listened to the problem. I was backed up by the local team leader in my concerns. Skidmore stated that, in his opinion, the outcome was not a good one and my point had merit.
10/. unknown other charter operators in the same market segment advised CASA and their local members of the same problem.
This path is well-worn and I have been down this track before with the Skull and others. The difference is:
11/. Skidmore listened and did something about it.
This is not an exemption for me only; it was not requested by me only; it does not benefit me only. It fixes a problem.
Can you tell me that this development is not a good thing?
----- that he studiously avoids any mention of the Forsyth Review and its conclusions.
Not strictly true, he consistently refers to the ASRR as "just one view or one view", he apparently studiously declines to accept the ASRR as a real and collective description of the state of CASA, and CASA v. the aviation sector.
This is entirely consistent with the CASA practice of referring to submissions by ASAC, AOPA, RAOz etc., as "just one view", and not the collective policy position of thousands.
So far, there is no evidence to refute the view that he has:
(a) been snowed by the "iron ring", or alternatively;
(b) he was only ever going to be a chair warmer.
Tootle pip!!
Can you tell me that this development is not a good thing?
It's not a good thing.
It's a bad thing made a little less bad.
Think about how much time and money CASA wasted to create the situation to which the exemption was the solution.
Think about how much time and money CASA will waste in developing exemptions to deal with problems CASA has created during the regulatory reform program.
Think about how much time and money CASA could waste in regulatory reform projects to deal with situations that CASA created during the regulatory reform program.
If you call making a bleedingly obvious decision to put a tiny bandaid over a pustulant running sore a 'good thing', you're only encouraging more of the same.
A 'good thing' would be an announcement that the whole program has been shut down and the product will be put through the shredder.
Can you tell me that this development is not a good thing?
Clearly you know exactly what it takes to be a chief pilot, so I put the question back at you; do you really think this is a good thing?
I am somewhat disgusted by it (but not by your actions, which I too would have done).
Thread Starter
Lead Balloon
It's a bad thing made a little less bad.
Think about how much time and money CASA wasted to create the situation to which the exemption was the solution.
Think about how much time and money CASA will waste in developing exemptions to deal with problems CASA has created during the regulatory reform program.
Think about how much time and money CASA could waste in regulatory reform projects to deal with situations that CASA created during the regulatory reform program.
If you call making a bleedingly obvious decision to put a tiny bandaid over a pustulant running sore a 'good thing', you're only encouraging more of the same.
Think about how much time and money CASA wasted to create the situation to which the exemption was the solution.
Think about how much time and money CASA will waste in developing exemptions to deal with problems CASA has created during the regulatory reform program.
Think about how much time and money CASA could waste in regulatory reform projects to deal with situations that CASA created during the regulatory reform program.
If you call making a bleedingly obvious decision to put a tiny bandaid over a pustulant running sore a 'good thing', you're only encouraging more of the same.
I am simply stating that the DAS has taken the time to identify problems and seek solutions. If you read between the lines, there is a bloke trying to walk the line between his political masters and a demanding industry screaming for change. All his words must be carefully chosen to avoid publicly dumping his senior management in the ****.
Of course, you can continue demanding completely unrealistic outcomes as the only measure of change, but that'll just leave you angry, bitter and twisted.