Does anyone know where I can do a MMC course?
Interesting blurb on their website-a TRI or TRE doesn't know how to do MCC Training. Really-I wonder what they think we do here at EK (and EY, QR etc also) with 100+ nationalities in the cockpit, very diverse backgrounds and experience range from Cadets to DEC. If you put something like that in writing you better be able to back it up. They are -at best- been disingenuous with the truth. It would also indicate that they have minimal experience in a real Multi Crew environment.
Last edited by clear to land; 9th Aug 2015 at 15:03.
Does anyone know where I can do a MMC course?
The entire MCC is a scam. You only need the qualification to act as a crew member in a multi-crew operation. Multi-crew type rated aircraft require an approved course of instruction, this course must address multi-crew training specific to the type, otherwise the course will not meet the MOS competency requirements. I'm confident, that in time, people will wake up to this fact and the stand alone MCC will disappear. It's a bit like airlines not thinking through the career path of new intake First Officers, by expecting them to hold an ATPL as an entry requirement. All they need is ATPL subjects, the type rating flight test (with minor tweaking) will satisfy the ATPL flight test. In fact, it would make more sense to complete the ATPL flight test after a period of participation in the airline recurrent training program. Under ICAO recommendations the ATPL is intended for use in multi-crew operations, so why would you go to the expense to gain the qualification if you're flying a Baron, PC12 or C208? The industry needs to stand back and look at the big picture with reference to Part 61 regs.
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That is the whole point. MCC is a course designed to prepare for multi crew multi engine turbine IFR operations. For some reason some see the ATPL as a "start of career" qualification rather than a pre-command licence. The Part 61 Manual of Standards prescribes a set of competencies etc in Multi Crew Operations and Non-Technical Skills. For some years RPT operators in Australia have been required to integrate such competencies into their induction, training and checking processes and manuals.
So there's no reason for the requirement to hold the ATPL before hiring unless you're being hired as a Direct Entry Captain.
Off-shore operators may require an ATPL before hiring. That's an issue for the applicant to do the cost-benefit on as many have done before them. I suppose it is hardly likely that operators will happily offer their simulators and checkers to give out ATPL tests when they know the candidate will head offshore as soon as they get the licence.
As for those who want their ATPL with no MCC training and no flight test.....what else do you want without a tests or training? A Science degree? Drivers licence?
Sherm
So there's no reason for the requirement to hold the ATPL before hiring unless you're being hired as a Direct Entry Captain.
Off-shore operators may require an ATPL before hiring. That's an issue for the applicant to do the cost-benefit on as many have done before them. I suppose it is hardly likely that operators will happily offer their simulators and checkers to give out ATPL tests when they know the candidate will head offshore as soon as they get the licence.
As for those who want their ATPL with no MCC training and no flight test.....what else do you want without a tests or training? A Science degree? Drivers licence?
Sherm
Thread Starter
Why do I have to do an MCC course? The object of my post was to stimulate discussion about the new Part 61 licencing requirements for an ATPL applicant. The new regs will be implimented in 3 weeks time and as far as I can ascertain there are only 2 CASA approved MCC providers. I could have posted another question. Where can I undertake an ATPL flight test? Apart from doing it with a CASA delegate , I believe there is only one independantly approved testing officer at present. And the test is conducted in a B737 simulator. The costs incurred now for the new up and coming pilots in Australia are becoming astronomical thanks to the new Part 61. I stand corrected here, but do new applicants for the major airlines in Australia require the applicant to already hold an ATPL? what about the Rex or Cobham ? Not only does the applicant for an ATPL now require an MCC course, this requirement also includes an oversees applicant who may already possess several thousand hours multi crew time and who want their overseas licence recognised. And No, sorry, Im not affiliated with any MCC training providers.
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I understand there are only 2 approved organizations. Your comments are interesting. However, the MCC has been a mandatory requirement for the ATPL since implementation (Part 61 MOS) on September 1st 2014. You mention September 1st 2015 as the implementation date which is incorrect. This was an extension by CASA to enable pilots holding some or all of ATPL subjects to apply for the the ATPL, without having to conduct an MCC Course if they were already operating in that capacity on a multi crew airplane. September 1st 2015 game over.
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Concerning Rotary Wing RW MCC / ATPL. In the legislation there is no distinction between RW and FW as Part 61 refers to generic simulation to conduct HF and NTS. The platform to conduct the simulation has to be an approved flight training device by CASA. There are only 3 in existence apart from the Level D Full Flight Simulators operated by the Airlines Boeing and Ansett. CASA have no come to grips with Simulation under Part 60. The RW ATPL flight test can be done on the aircraft type a pilot is rated on. Cost is outrageous? Depends! What is the cost of the simulator, the Instructors and infrastructure to conduct MCC? CASA made the rules.
See Hansard dated 28th May Senate Enquiry and cross examination of Skidmore and Crothswaite (licencing) by Senators Xenephon and Sterle re MCC and costs!! Pages 1-16. It is an eye opener
See Hansard dated 28th May Senate Enquiry and cross examination of Skidmore and Crothswaite (licencing) by Senators Xenephon and Sterle re MCC and costs!! Pages 1-16. It is an eye opener
The entire MCC is a scam. You only need the qualification to act as a crew member in a multi-crew operation. Multi-crew type rated aircraft require an approved course of instruction, this course must address multi-crew training specific to the type, otherwise the course will not meet the MOS competency requirements. I'm confident, that in time, people will wake up to this fact and the stand alone MCC will disappear
Many will agree with that comment although it is a courageous assumption that the stand-alone MCC will disappear. After all, you are dealing with CASA with all that implies.
Reports indicate the two current CASA approved MCC providers are charging circa $9000. Hopefully that may change as other potential providers frantically hit their keyboards to provide urgently needed competition. One provider uses a 737 NG fixed based simulator for its 28 hours of MCC training. It might be worth putting a case to CASA for credits for anyone buying a fair dinkum 737 type rating in future. You have to be in it to win it..
