AUSFLY 2015 September 4-6, YNRM
Probably NIL unless you did it through CASA greater than 28 days ago... there should be plenty of aircraft there on the weekend to be able to take a photo from ;-) I'll happily be a photo platform.
Driven 7 hours to Dubbo today. I figure a few days investment in Ausfly should make the decision to continue building a bit clearer - one way or the other.
The last few months have seen the appearance of two new costst - early propeller overhaul and now radio graphic inspection of welded tubular structures.
ThE next one I guess will be CASA vetting of Dynon Skyview software updates (and similar) before installation in Australian registered experimental aircraft is allowed. The legal basis for this is that new capabilities amount to major modification.
That can be followed by autopilot installation approvals. Then there can be rules for cameras, data logging, engine software upgrades, etc. etc.
The growth market for "australian" approved software or firmware upgrades to anything should be particularly fruitful for CASA - and triple the cost of software for Australians if we can get it at all. The Roatx 912 iS has already had what? Three firmware upgrades? Think of the fees if each "upgrade" had to be approved by CASA. WhAts the betting that even a firmware upgrade to a GoPro or Virb camera would fall under such a rule?
The last few months have seen the appearance of two new costst - early propeller overhaul and now radio graphic inspection of welded tubular structures.
ThE next one I guess will be CASA vetting of Dynon Skyview software updates (and similar) before installation in Australian registered experimental aircraft is allowed. The legal basis for this is that new capabilities amount to major modification.
That can be followed by autopilot installation approvals. Then there can be rules for cameras, data logging, engine software upgrades, etc. etc.
The growth market for "australian" approved software or firmware upgrades to anything should be particularly fruitful for CASA - and triple the cost of software for Australians if we can get it at all. The Roatx 912 iS has already had what? Three firmware upgrades? Think of the fees if each "upgrade" had to be approved by CASA. WhAts the betting that even a firmware upgrade to a GoPro or Virb camera would fall under such a rule?
So I take it Sunfish that based on your post that the amber fluid is flowing freely up there tonight or are you just tired from the long drive up?
🙏🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺
Re the amber fluid, are we allowed to BYO to the event? Thinking about throwing half a dozen in the ice box.
If we can't is there going to be a bar available on site? 🙏🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺
If we can't is there going to be a bar available on site? 🙏🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺
Don't casa have to approve avionics in experimental? Where does it say that in black and white? You are making an inference based on casa current interpretations of its rules and exemptions. You are trying to make a positive assertion from negative evidence.
Where does it say in the regs that "experimental aircraft can use any avionics they like"? It doesn't! You simply interpret casa passivity at the moment for permission.
I have already been told that entry into controlled airspace requires a casa approved radio. Your transponder setup must be approved as well.
All it takes is a new interpretation of "major modification" to include software or firmware upgrades and you are back getting re-approved sweetheart.
This is the trouble with all GA and recreational aviation; there are no firm foundations that guarante our existence. We live in a realm of exemptions and interpretations - all of which can be removed or changed at will.
Being a member of what I call the fact based community, I have trouble dealing with the endless stream of dodgy interpretations from casa and elsewhere. Hard information is difficult to find (and yes, I have had private communications saying "don't worry about this because xxxx says he is not going to enforce it or Yyyy is going to change the rules" but that is hardly satisfactory is it?
What passes for "fact" is usually a chain that goes something like this:
"Regulations abc says thronomisters must always be of an approved type, but exemption 1234 says an unapproved thronomister can be fitted to category xyz, and regulation 5678 says GA aircraft are category efg and exemption 7891 says experimental aircraft aren't category efg, so experimental must be category xyz because we aren't efg according to FOI Bloggs, so we can fit unapproved thronomisters". Nowhere does it say "experimental aircraft can fit an unapproved thronomister" in plain English. Maybe I'm just simple. I can read and make sense of 100+ page contracts for many millions of dollars but I lack the sense to understand aviaition regulations.
To put that another way, we exist because we have not (yet) been prohibited. There is no positive affirmation of our right to exist.
To put that in perspective, how many would be builders and pilots take one look at the regulations and decide to take up golf instead?
PS Squawk, Amber fluid and vino don't figure prominently in my diet, seven hours driving is more to the point, half in rain. I'm looking forward to Ausfly.
Where does it say in the regs that "experimental aircraft can use any avionics they like"? It doesn't! You simply interpret casa passivity at the moment for permission.
I have already been told that entry into controlled airspace requires a casa approved radio. Your transponder setup must be approved as well.
All it takes is a new interpretation of "major modification" to include software or firmware upgrades and you are back getting re-approved sweetheart.
This is the trouble with all GA and recreational aviation; there are no firm foundations that guarante our existence. We live in a realm of exemptions and interpretations - all of which can be removed or changed at will.
Being a member of what I call the fact based community, I have trouble dealing with the endless stream of dodgy interpretations from casa and elsewhere. Hard information is difficult to find (and yes, I have had private communications saying "don't worry about this because xxxx says he is not going to enforce it or Yyyy is going to change the rules" but that is hardly satisfactory is it?
What passes for "fact" is usually a chain that goes something like this:
"Regulations abc says thronomisters must always be of an approved type, but exemption 1234 says an unapproved thronomister can be fitted to category xyz, and regulation 5678 says GA aircraft are category efg and exemption 7891 says experimental aircraft aren't category efg, so experimental must be category xyz because we aren't efg according to FOI Bloggs, so we can fit unapproved thronomisters". Nowhere does it say "experimental aircraft can fit an unapproved thronomister" in plain English. Maybe I'm just simple. I can read and make sense of 100+ page contracts for many millions of dollars but I lack the sense to understand aviaition regulations.
To put that another way, we exist because we have not (yet) been prohibited. There is no positive affirmation of our right to exist.
To put that in perspective, how many would be builders and pilots take one look at the regulations and decide to take up golf instead?
PS Squawk, Amber fluid and vino don't figure prominently in my diet, seven hours driving is more to the point, half in rain. I'm looking forward to Ausfly.
Last edited by Sunfish; 3rd Sep 2015 at 11:53.
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its an airport, with a licenced bar at the aeroclub, the caravan park is private property, so, drink away or bring your own to drink away.
just dont bring in 45kg of grass.
just dont bring in 45kg of grass.
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Serious weather earlier today has cleared and its looking good!
Will be busy in the morning as some exhibitors are still to fl in tomorrow morning, but its looking a treat already.
7 x Roulettes and all the display planes out the front look awesome.
Dubbo hour by hour detailed weather forecast
Will be busy in the morning as some exhibitors are still to fl in tomorrow morning, but its looking a treat already.
7 x Roulettes and all the display planes out the front look awesome.
Dubbo hour by hour detailed weather forecast
Last edited by Jabawocky; 3rd Sep 2015 at 14:01. Reason: wx link
Good to see Ozrunways and horsham aviaition. No avgas this morning stopped a flying opportunity. Not much that hasn't been seen before. Most of the displays are RAA aircraft. Nothing to get enthusiastic about. Just miles of old farts like me wandering aimlessly around. there is a shortage of young enthusiasts which is not good for the future.
cASA has some guidance material out regarding fuel logs and a "personal minimum checklist" which looks like it will cease to be "guidance" and become regulation shortly.
Maybe this afternoon will be better.
Kudos to the staff and organisers for trying and working very hard. Basically there does not seem to be any sense of connectedness or ownership among people here. I do not sense any esprit de corps it's an alienating experience, but it's probably just me. Debating about skipping Saturday afternoon and going home early.
cASA has some guidance material out regarding fuel logs and a "personal minimum checklist" which looks like it will cease to be "guidance" and become regulation shortly.
Maybe this afternoon will be better.
Kudos to the staff and organisers for trying and working very hard. Basically there does not seem to be any sense of connectedness or ownership among people here. I do not sense any esprit de corps it's an alienating experience, but it's probably just me. Debating about skipping Saturday afternoon and going home early.
All it takes is a new interpretation of "major modification" to include software or firmware upgrades and you are back getting re-approved sweetheart.
This one already has a history. Some time back, now, CASA decided that the monthly updates to your WizzBank Avionix GPS ( the ARAC updates every 28 days) for IFR could only be installed by an avionics LAME at CAR30 (before Part 145) approved avionics shop. Depending on your equipment, these are the ones you can download to a PCMCIA, USB stick card or whatever, from Jeppesen or whoever for your equipment.
There was a big stink at the time, the idea that a large % of IFR aircraft would have to visit an avionics shop somewhere around Australia once a month was just too silly for words.
Fortunately, this was during the all too brief period at CASA of Byron and Vaughan, and a sensible outcome was arranged, but the "attitude" of several avionics outfits, who saw the opportunity for yet more regulatory induced guaranteed cash flow, was not pretty.
Your transponder setup must be approved as well.
there are no firm foundations that guarante our existence
Part 21 aircraft categories are there by right of law, not CASA indulgence, and it took a lot of effort to ensure the phrase "----- and CASA is satisfied" was not part of the then new certification standards.
You build and fly your Part 21.189, 21.191 etc. aircraft by right of law.
If that is to change, to put CASA back in the driving seat, that will (only) happen if the aviation community let it happen, and sadly, among us are a few who hanker for the "good old days" when there was no such thing as "Experimental", and the old Australian amateur built category was subject to damned near as many restrictions as building a certified design under a production certificate --- with all the related charges being a very significant cost of building.
--- but only in the interests of safety, as I am certain you understand, after all, you can't be allowed to make your own decisions as to what risks you find acceptable.
That all went in 1998. Blood, sweat and (almost) tears, but it went!!
The government policy at the time was clear, where you voluntarily assume a risk, CASA's ONLY interest is the safety of those on the ground under the flightpath of the aircraft, and other airspace users.
It disgusts me that any in the aviation community want to see even a partial return to pre-1998, but far too many Australians seen unable to function "without regulations".
RAOz is a bit of a different animal, in 30 or so years, CASA and its predecessors have failed to present draft regulations to eliminate all the CAR 95 etc. exemptions.
To everybody's cost, and just look at the not so little empire being built in the CASA Sports Aviation office.
Tootle pip!!
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Good to see Ozrunways and horsham aviaition. No avgas this morning stopped a flying opportunity. Not much that hasn't been seen before. Most of the displays are RAA aircraft. Nothing to get enthusiastic about. Just miles of old farts like me wandering aimlessly around. there is a shortage of young enthusiasts which is not good for the future.
so, if you see a young spring chicken in a APS shirt, yes, i want a free beer, a red baron jacket and Alaska bush pilot hat, Say hi. ill try to be positive.
We will see today if the demographics of the crowd changes. Looks like I'll do a workshop this morning and maybe a flight then head home. I've never been so uncomfortable as in that tent last night for a long time.
Yesterday afternoon was good and I managed to find a few kindred spirits for a beer and dinner
Yesterday afternoon was good and I managed to find a few kindred spirits for a beer and dinner
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well, today was a good day, a decent turn out, lots of general public being entertained, and the most encouraging thing ever from fellow aviators, is the generally positive words about CASA.
i have been told via second hand ifo, that during the CASA talk on friday, with minister warren truss and skidmoore, is that CASA must no implement the points of a review recently, and that they must take a role of industry leader and fosterer as opposed to being the industry policemen. rumours i have heard are there have been NO ramp checks!
i can hear the cheering and claps from the SAAA hangar dinner, but the fire over here is warm, and the scotch is good.
i have been told via second hand ifo, that during the CASA talk on friday, with minister warren truss and skidmoore, is that CASA must no implement the points of a review recently, and that they must take a role of industry leader and fosterer as opposed to being the industry policemen. rumours i have heard are there have been NO ramp checks!
i can hear the cheering and claps from the SAAA hangar dinner, but the fire over here is warm, and the scotch is good.
Overall positive. The C of A workshop was good, I especially liked the noise certification bit where you get a "Certificate that exempts you from requiring a certificate" bit.
Flew the Savannah and now understand the references by new owners to sensitivity in pitch and more importantly, the absolute advice by SAAA not to do the first test flight yourself!
Oz runways staff absolutely stand out helpful as were all of the others.
General comment: It is good that Skidmore and the Minister were positive because I personally feel that GA, SAAA and RAA are right at "the point of no return". The turnout and number of exhibitors may have been good by Ausfly standards, but for a nation of 23 million people its pathetic. I spent seven hours driving home and thinking of how the bush should be criss crossed with light aircraft moving people at a fraction of the time and cost I was putting in.
TO put that another way: If Australia had rules like NZ, I feel there would have been a thousand aircraft and a hundred exhibitors.
Flew the Savannah and now understand the references by new owners to sensitivity in pitch and more importantly, the absolute advice by SAAA not to do the first test flight yourself!
Oz runways staff absolutely stand out helpful as were all of the others.
General comment: It is good that Skidmore and the Minister were positive because I personally feel that GA, SAAA and RAA are right at "the point of no return". The turnout and number of exhibitors may have been good by Ausfly standards, but for a nation of 23 million people its pathetic. I spent seven hours driving home and thinking of how the bush should be criss crossed with light aircraft moving people at a fraction of the time and cost I was putting in.
TO put that another way: If Australia had rules like NZ, I feel there would have been a thousand aircraft and a hundred exhibitors.
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Ultralghts;
Can you confirm that the Minister and DAS said "NOT" to implement the points of a review, which, hopefully I'm wrong in the assumption, but guessing is the "Forsyth Review"?
QUOTE: "CASA talk on friday, with minister warren truss and skidmoore, is that CASA must (sic) no implement the points of a review recently, and that they must take a role of industry leader and fosterer as opposed to being the industry policemen" QUOTE:
Can you confirm that the Minister and DAS said "NOT" to implement the points of a review, which, hopefully I'm wrong in the assumption, but guessing is the "Forsyth Review"?
QUOTE: "CASA talk on friday, with minister warren truss and skidmoore, is that CASA must (sic) no implement the points of a review recently, and that they must take a role of industry leader and fosterer as opposed to being the industry policemen" QUOTE:
Last edited by Frank Arouet; 6th Sep 2015 at 01:22. Reason: I like the word "foster". Keep still my beating heart!
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sorry, drunken typo from the caravan park fireplace, i meant that they NOW have to implement points from the review, direct from minister to skidmoore,
i cant recall if it was the forsyth review, but the person who was there told me, he has been critical of CASA for a long time, but he was impressed and showed for the first time i have ever seen him actually positive that CASA is now on the right path.
i cant recall if it was the forsyth review, but the person who was there told me, he has been critical of CASA for a long time, but he was impressed and showed for the first time i have ever seen him actually positive that CASA is now on the right path.
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I do not sense any esprit de corps it's an alienating experience, but it's probably just me.
The team of folks, especially the Hamster and Terry……if I have 10% of the energy they have at their age…..
Seriously, you should have gotten there on monday morning. Then had dinner with them all during the week.
Esprit de Corps was in a high quality abundance where it mattered.
What the GA fraternity needs is bit more of it. And you re right, with our population more should have been there but it was a very good turn out.
I must pay special note to Mr Horne from Cirrus……he was almost violently going nuts about the fact he has been every year and loves it…..yet the other majors such as Beech, Cessna Diamond and so forth do not go.
He writes business.
A rising tide lifts all boats and the others are not pulling their weight.
Asking around, the odd thing that could be done better would be if more got involved, but overall, it was awesome. Dinner party was a hoot!