Comanche 400?
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Comanche 400?
An acquaintance told me on Friday night that his extended family owns Two "Eight cylinder" Piper singles (who and how I don't know), one of which is apparently in flyable condition on some property somewhere.
I presume this might be a Comanche 400. Anyone know anything about them?
How easy would it be for a new PPL to handle one? Comments?
I presume this might be a Comanche 400. Anyone know anything about them?
How easy would it be for a new PPL to handle one? Comments?
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Piper PA-24 Comanche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yep, powered by an I0-720.
Sounds like a rare and impractical aircraft to own. Must take a heap of rudder on takeoff to keep this thing balanced.
Yep, powered by an I0-720.
Sounds like a rare and impractical aircraft to own. Must take a heap of rudder on takeoff to keep this thing balanced.
Last edited by peterc005; 17th May 2015 at 22:57.
The late Ernie Mills of Cressy in Tasmania's midlands had VH-EDM
Often he would fly to his essential oil (tea-tree) farm near Yeppoon
staging through Bourke northbound or southbound.
WTFIGO and I were based there with Maslings, 1967.
Once Ernie had the distinction of landing very late in the day at his
Cressy strip . . . right on top of a horse . Horse came off second best.
EDM needed some attention before Ernie flew her again.
EDM is still based there, owned and operated by a nephew of Ernie.
Ernie learned to fly in England in the mid 30s on an autogyro
at Hanworth (I think). One Gatenby imported one to Tasmania.
Often he would fly to his essential oil (tea-tree) farm near Yeppoon
staging through Bourke northbound or southbound.
WTFIGO and I were based there with Maslings, 1967.
Once Ernie had the distinction of landing very late in the day at his
Cressy strip . . . right on top of a horse . Horse came off second best.
EDM needed some attention before Ernie flew her again.
EDM is still based there, owned and operated by a nephew of Ernie.
Ernie learned to fly in England in the mid 30s on an autogyro
at Hanworth (I think). One Gatenby imported one to Tasmania.
I'd be more worried about the fuel usage that they may not be able to handle especially at full noise in the climb 
There's two camps.... those that think that PPL's should start on a C150 and work their way up, and those that can't see a problem with students doing ab-initio in a Cirrus SR22. Unless you have definitive evidence to suggest that the latter is detrimental and more likely to end in disaster, then don't be worried about it.
Just a tip - I believe that your "acquaintance" has already been discussing this journey with other aviators already.
I assume you are talking about PYU and TOZ.
There's two camps.... those that think that PPL's should start on a C150 and work their way up, and those that can't see a problem with students doing ab-initio in a Cirrus SR22. Unless you have definitive evidence to suggest that the latter is detrimental and more likely to end in disaster, then don't be worried about it.
Just a tip - I believe that your "acquaintance" has already been discussing this journey with other aviators already.
I assume you are talking about PYU and TOZ.
Like any airplane Sunfish, find a capable instructor who will spend some time with you on the aircraft systems, a few sessions in the training area, a cross country navex or two and down the track refresher training, and go forth and enjoy!
A few ppruners on this site have Pa-24/400 time.
EDM owners did his IFR rating in YMMB, the same time I did my IFR rating.
A few ppruners on this site have Pa-24/400 time.
EDM owners did his IFR rating in YMMB, the same time I did my IFR rating.
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Hint: Look around Hay NSW, especially local NRMA agent who owned one and may still do. As for the IO 720, ask around Griffith NSW or anywhere for local AG operators who operate them. Not having flown one, I can't give any credible advice, but like everything else once the limitations are known and the handling done by the book these should be not many problems. Tales of the rear cylinders burning out usually come from those who have been mishandled. There are plenty of the engines around in quiet a few aircraft. I would say it's not an engine to experiment with. Rather costly I would imagine.
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I haven't flown a 400 but spent many happy hours in a 260C, more or less straight after my PPL. It was quite a lot of aircraft for someone trained on a C150 but I had very thorough instructor and came to the PA24 without having heard the many old wives' tales about its operation. I found that it was a great aircraft, able to be flown by the book. Thirty years later I still rate it as one of the best aircraft I've flown.
In terms of conversion experience, the speed was quite an eye-opener but needing to stay ahead of the aircraft is common to all more advanced types.
I'm not sure the 400 represents any sort of sweet spot in aviation (lot of l/hr) but if you have a particular motivation or curiousity, it'd certainly be fun trying it out.
In terms of conversion experience, the speed was quite an eye-opener but needing to stay ahead of the aircraft is common to all more advanced types.
I'm not sure the 400 represents any sort of sweet spot in aviation (lot of l/hr) but if you have a particular motivation or curiousity, it'd certainly be fun trying it out.
The only pair I know of owned by the one family is a Northern Victorian wine family. If this is the case the PPL who is intending to fly one is approaching it in a very sound, measured manner and being coached by two outstandingly capable instructors.
And at the end of the day its just an aeroplane, designed by mortals intended to be flown by mortals.
And at the end of the day its just an aeroplane, designed by mortals intended to be flown by mortals.
I presume this might be a Comanche 400. Anyone know anything about them?
How easy would it be for a new PPL to handle one? Comments?
Just kidding! If you can handle a C210, Bo, Comanch with confidence, you should be OK in the PA24/400.
Would you believe that the Townsville refueller actually owned one?
Dr
PS: If you know one that needs to be flown - I am available. Been on my bucket list for years!
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Comanche-400
Wally Graham, a sapphire miner from Inverell had one in the early 70's.
With 4 men on both wingtips, large wheel chocks and brakes locked she jumped the chocks during a full power run-up at Archerfield.
P2-WDL would remember that Comanche as well, beautifully built machines.
With 4 men on both wingtips, large wheel chocks and brakes locked she jumped the chocks during a full power run-up at Archerfield.
P2-WDL would remember that Comanche as well, beautifully built machines.
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"Once Ernie had the distinction of landing very late in the day at his
Cressy strip . . . right on top of a horse . Horse came off second best."
He was flying his C180 when this happened IIRC - forward vis not so good?
Cressy strip . . . right on top of a horse . Horse came off second best."
He was flying his C180 when this happened IIRC - forward vis not so good?
Classic GA, straight out of the sixties.
It just looks sort of right, doesn't it. And to those who think that an SR22 looks better, don't be silly.
Had a go at VH-PY(something) in Bendigo around 1979/80. Like **** out of a shanghai, took me half a circut to catch up with it.
It just looks sort of right, doesn't it. And to those who think that an SR22 looks better, don't be silly.
Had a go at VH-PY(something) in Bendigo around 1979/80. Like **** out of a shanghai, took me half a circut to catch up with it.
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Have quite a few hours on the -400. It went very well, but the hardest part was doing a hot start. If you did not get it going in the first one or two tries, you were in for a wait as the next try or two would suck the battery dry! (ground power was always a good option and some cables in the boot would be a good idea)
Flinders Island Airways had one back in the 60's and 70's (VH-FOE) and it did the paper run from MB to Mildura with the Herald every week day. MIA was the only place it shut down for fuel. The other stops the engine was left running.
I did some IFR training in one with the owner back in the 70's and I recall it was quite a handful for someone with limited experience. Not a lot of room for maps etc., so you had to plan your trip and the placement of the charts etc very well.
Handling wise it was good, but the effect of the large engine was always there during the flare. Cant remember the fuel burn, but recall somewhere between 15 and 18 gph in those days (??).
Flinders Island Airways had one back in the 60's and 70's (VH-FOE) and it did the paper run from MB to Mildura with the Herald every week day. MIA was the only place it shut down for fuel. The other stops the engine was left running.
I did some IFR training in one with the owner back in the 70's and I recall it was quite a handful for someone with limited experience. Not a lot of room for maps etc., so you had to plan your trip and the placement of the charts etc very well.
Handling wise it was good, but the effect of the large engine was always there during the flare. Cant remember the fuel burn, but recall somewhere between 15 and 18 gph in those days (??).
I have about 15 hours on a -400 back in...1973! I was nineteen, and the flying school I worked for had one on lease-back. I was the only fool to hire it because it cost a whopping $4 more an hour to hire than the C-182. ($22.50 from memory)
15 years later I owned a Twin Commanche, but wished that it was a -400. The -400s were more money back then.
The aircraft is hotter, has more mass (doesn't glide so well) and is a bit more tempermental with cylinder cooling, but it isn't too difficult. It was designed and built for the low time doctor market back in the 60's. Looking at the illustration makes me realise how much of a throw back it is. Me too I guess.
15 years later I owned a Twin Commanche, but wished that it was a -400. The -400s were more money back then.
The aircraft is hotter, has more mass (doesn't glide so well) and is a bit more tempermental with cylinder cooling, but it isn't too difficult. It was designed and built for the low time doctor market back in the 60's. Looking at the illustration makes me realise how much of a throw back it is. Me too I guess.
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PA24 400
Have a few hours on the poor mans mustang. I must admit that I am biased toward ANY Comanche however the IO720 engines are thirsty and unreliable. Have been advised engine parts pretty scarce and expensive now. Fuel against speed they are pretty uneconomical. They can be a brute but ya gotta love the 400's!! They used to have a chapter dedicated to the 400's years ago in the ICS (Int'l Comanche Society).
Roy Sneesby is the Comanche king at Murwillumbah and he can set you straight on them if you wish to call him. I can DM his contact details if you cant find them or look up Tweed Aircraft Services and talk to Mal Bryant.
Good Luck
Roy Sneesby is the Comanche king at Murwillumbah and he can set you straight on them if you wish to call him. I can DM his contact details if you cant find them or look up Tweed Aircraft Services and talk to Mal Bryant.
Good Luck
Last edited by PA39; 18th May 2015 at 06:01. Reason: additions
Have a few hours on the poor mans mustang.
Fuel against speed they are pretty uneconomical.
I read somewhere the 400 was Piper answer to turbo charging. Put in a big donk that still allows enough power up high for good performance. Good TAS without the expense/complication of a turbo.