ASETPA - Why is it such a challenge to obtain?
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ASETPA - Why is it such a challenge to obtain?
Hopefully somebody who knows CAsA's (har har see what I did there?) inner workings can answer this question.
As an onlooker why does it seem to be that a number of operators are yet to be granted approval to operate ASETPA? Why does it take so long to gain an approval?
It's a bit perplexing. It's legal to fly a TBM on a charter from A to B at 500ft AGL VFR but should you want to go into cloud then woah, woah, hold up, we're going to need to cut down some rainforests and get some dinosaurs to sit in on some flights.
Eg Vortex (Caravan) and Wagga Air Centre (TBM)
Thanks!
As an onlooker why does it seem to be that a number of operators are yet to be granted approval to operate ASETPA? Why does it take so long to gain an approval?
It's a bit perplexing. It's legal to fly a TBM on a charter from A to B at 500ft AGL VFR but should you want to go into cloud then woah, woah, hold up, we're going to need to cut down some rainforests and get some dinosaurs to sit in on some flights.
Eg Vortex (Caravan) and Wagga Air Centre (TBM)
Thanks!
FCP,
This is Australia, you know, the air is different, hence the unique rules.
After all, if CASA didn't take a long time, they would not be able to "justify" their increasingly humongous charges.
At least be thankful that the new MOS for Part 61 exempts you from having to demonstrate and instrument approach and missed approach after an engine failure, quite a concession from CASA, after all this time.
Tootle pip!!
This is Australia, you know, the air is different, hence the unique rules.
After all, if CASA didn't take a long time, they would not be able to "justify" their increasingly humongous charges.
At least be thankful that the new MOS for Part 61 exempts you from having to demonstrate and instrument approach and missed approach after an engine failure, quite a concession from CASA, after all this time.
Tootle pip!!
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and missed approach after an engine failure,
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Actually its not that hard.
For the most post it can be obtained within 6 to 9 months if the operator has the correct staff, manuals and attitude.
ASETPA is looked at in a similar way to RPT. You must have a CAR 217, your aircraft must be class A maintained and your organisation must be suitable to monitor all of the above. If you treat it just like an extension of charter you end up taking three or more years.... just ask an operator in the Kimberely.
I have been involved in two ASETPA set ups that have been processed in well under 12 months.
OCTA
For the most post it can be obtained within 6 to 9 months if the operator has the correct staff, manuals and attitude.
ASETPA is looked at in a similar way to RPT. You must have a CAR 217, your aircraft must be class A maintained and your organisation must be suitable to monitor all of the above. If you treat it just like an extension of charter you end up taking three or more years.... just ask an operator in the Kimberely.
I have been involved in two ASETPA set ups that have been processed in well under 12 months.
OCTA
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Thanks Leady.
If you have these things sorted then why does it take 6 to 9 months?
Therein lies the problem. Why cannot it be so?
the correct staff, manuals and attitude.
If you treat it just like an extension of charter you end up taking three or more years
6 to 9 months? No wonder this country is so f**kd.
Not too long ago it would have been possible to set up a high capacity jet airline from scratch in that time. Even here, in Oz. Seen it done.
If a basic infrastructure and competent staff already exists, there is no excuse for not processing something so simple in 6 weeks. It is just a single engine aeroplane with a more reliable engine, or is it something akin to the space shuttle?
Not too long ago it would have been possible to set up a high capacity jet airline from scratch in that time. Even here, in Oz. Seen it done.
If a basic infrastructure and competent staff already exists, there is no excuse for not processing something so simple in 6 weeks. It is just a single engine aeroplane with a more reliable engine, or is it something akin to the space shuttle?
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I have been involved in two ASETPA set ups that have been processed in well under 12 months.
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Don't shoot the messenger! Yes it shouldn't take that long I agree BUT if you can get anything done by CASA quickly let me know how! My point was if the company is organized and prepaired it does not take 3 years as some people have quoted me.
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PA-46-500T for PSEA (ASETPA)
Can anyone point me at the info that precludes the Piper Meridian from being ASETPA/PSEA? I had a look through the Type Certificate but couldn't make head or tail of it, even looking at the C208 TC can't see any direct reference to the aircraft being ASETPA, but we know that CASA has approved it...
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I think there was an ASETPA requirement the aircraft turbine engine had a demonstrated failure rate of less than 1 in 100,000 hours? I seem to recall from many years ago and the early days of ASETPA that the PT6A-114 engine in the C208 (being of the same class as the -27 and -34) demonstrated that reliability rate, whilst the -41/-42 class of engines in the Piper PA46-500TP had not? I was told that by either CASA or P&W Brisbane?
Looking at the PA46-500 specs and performance, it appears to be more a rich man's toy, rather than a commercial aircraft? The payload at max range appears to be one anorexic pilot plus his handbag? Why bother with Class A maintenance and ASETPA approval?
Looking at the PA46-500 specs and performance, it appears to be more a rich man's toy, rather than a commercial aircraft? The payload at max range appears to be one anorexic pilot plus his handbag? Why bother with Class A maintenance and ASETPA approval?
Back in the mid-90s we decided to challenge CA$A by submitting a proposal for single-engined helicopter RPT from Parramatta Heliport to KSA. Hats hit the roof, with their staff falling off chairs, a mixture of astonishment and laughter.
The biggest hurdle was getting the Maintenance Control Manual approved - even Bell did not publish anything like an MEL for such a simple aircraft, they said "Make something up."
The original draft of the MCM, off my trusty 286 computer, went from 12 pages to a fourth edition of about 120 pages by the time it got through. And that was only because we paid the CA$A inspector to write it, so he could then approve it. There were multiple other hurdles thrown in our way, but finally we got the AOC after about 1 1/2 years.
CA$A moves in strange ways.
The biggest hurdle was getting the Maintenance Control Manual approved - even Bell did not publish anything like an MEL for such a simple aircraft, they said "Make something up."
The original draft of the MCM, off my trusty 286 computer, went from 12 pages to a fourth edition of about 120 pages by the time it got through. And that was only because we paid the CA$A inspector to write it, so he could then approve it. There were multiple other hurdles thrown in our way, but finally we got the AOC after about 1 1/2 years.
CA$A moves in strange ways.
CASA's approval for an aircraft to conduct PSEA (the new ASETPA) is listed in the Type Acceptance Certificate.
https://www.casa.gov.au/search-centr...e-certificates
C208 certificates note approval for PSEA. PA46 doesn't. You'd be first of type trying to get it approved, which combined with the aforementioned abysmal performance as a commercial machine probably alludes to why someone else hasn't already done it, if it's even possible.
https://www.casa.gov.au/search-centr...e-certificates
C208 certificates note approval for PSEA. PA46 doesn't. You'd be first of type trying to get it approved, which combined with the aforementioned abysmal performance as a commercial machine probably alludes to why someone else hasn't already done it, if it's even possible.
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Clare. Approved Single-Engine Turbine Powered Aeroplanes, apparently now called Prescribed Single-Engine Aeroplane.
Single engine aircraft permitted to operate passenger IFR and RPT, subject to operator approval by CASA. Includes the Cessna 208 and Pilatus PC12.
Not sure why the question is being asked on the Piper Meridian, as it is a five seat turbine aircraft which does not have "commercial" payload/range capability. A pressurised Navaho with a single PT6 turbine.
Single engine aircraft permitted to operate passenger IFR and RPT, subject to operator approval by CASA. Includes the Cessna 208 and Pilatus PC12.
Not sure why the question is being asked on the Piper Meridian, as it is a five seat turbine aircraft which does not have "commercial" payload/range capability. A pressurised Navaho with a single PT6 turbine.
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whilst the -41/-42 class of engines in the Piper PA46-500TP had not?
which combined with the aforementioned abysmal performance as a commercial machine probably alludes to why someone else hasn't already done it, if it's even possible.
PSEA requires crashworthy seats and redundant systems that the PA46 doesn't have.
How does the TBM stack up for the ASETPA?
Yes still small but fast and a pretty good range.
Yes still small but fast and a pretty good range.