The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Shrike accident Torres Strait

Old 10th Mar 2015, 11:04
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 686
Shrike accident Torres Strait

There is a rumour about that a Shrike WZV operated by new player Torres Strait Air had an engine fail just after lift off at Badu Island. Apparently the pilot elected to abandon the t/o and the aircraft ended up in the scrub.Fortunately no injuries or at least nothing serious so if everyone walked away I guess it can be classified as a good landing.
rutan around is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2015, 11:23
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: YBBN
Posts: 67
Hardly appropriate aircraft for the straits, apparently a writeoff! Wonder what CASA will do with this crowd and the troppo connection?
Justa Dash is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2015, 11:34
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Abeam Alice Springs
Posts: 938
Hardly appropriate aircraft for the straits....
Loaded within weight limits and flown by a well trained pilot the Shrike will climb out on one engine provided all the procedures are followed. Certainly a lot better than some other light twins that are used there. What would you recommend?
triadic is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2015, 03:00
  #4 (permalink)  

Check Attitude
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 470
Agree with Triadic, the Aero Commander 500S, aka Shrike, has a long history of service in the Straits. Assymetric performance on FAA data is good, not so good at the higher CASA approved MTOW increase. Badu (YBAU) has a 920 mtr sealed runway, definitely not limiting.

When flown accurately by a properly trained pilot, operations into much shorter strips is par for the course.

The Shrike has a simple fuel system, both engines feed off a central fuselage tank fed by wing tanks, so fuel selection is ruled out.

The aircraft had not reached blue line, Vyse, but Vxse still yields climb.

Earlier threads on the operator suggested they didn't want experienced pilots, rather employ fresh pilots and train them their way.

Hopefully ATSB might investigate if their budget allows, and provide some answers.
Mainframe is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2015, 04:29
  #5 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: various places .....
Posts: 6,503
not so good at the higher CASA approved MTOW increase

Reflects the local certification standard. The US stall speed based climb limit was replaced by the Oz OEI requirement .. more payload. Bit long ago now for the details to be fresh but, as I recall, Sleighs did the upgrade so it was probably Bob M or Rudy P doing the certification work.

Had many hours in the Shrike and loved every minute of it (.. ok, except for a couple of self-induced frights that shouldn't have happened).
john_tullamarine is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2015, 05:48
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 370
Likewise with the shrike out of karumba, IBV being the rego. Any plane where you turn left on entry to get into your seat has to be a goodun!
frangatang is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2015, 02:45
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Abeam Alice Springs
Posts: 938
Reflects the local certification standard. The US stall speed based climb limit was replaced by the Oz OEI requirement .. more payload. Bit long ago now for the details to be fresh but, as I recall, Sleighs did the upgrade so it was probably Bob M or Rudy P doing the certification work.
The Oz OEI / STC was undertaken by Jim Wilson & Ron Smith at Executive Air Services in the late 1960's/early 70's. Bob Mac was a performance engineer with DCA then and had a bit to do with it. He later worked at Execs.
Jim was the best boss I ever had in GA - was sad to see him pass on. That was long before Sleigh Aviation got involved with EAS. Things changed when they lost the Air Amb contract to Bill Suhr around 78 and then Sleigh's got the coastwatch contract, initially with Shrikes.

The STC was meant to be the property of EAS, but due to some glitch in the paperwork (??) it applied without limit to all the AC500's at the time and since.

There was a VFR and an IFR weight established under the Oz STC and the a/c would perform if flown correctly. I recall some flight testing undertaken for en-route SE climb at 5000ft around that time, even on the Grand Commander. I think some operators think they can fly it at 7400lb all day every day but that is not in accordance with the STC unless VFR. I recall the IFR wt was 7150lb (? long time ago!) My experience on the Shrike was that 7150lb was workable and catered for a critical engine failure. At the time it catered well doing charter and air ambulance (mostly below those weights).

There was one famous occasion when during training at Tulla (before it opened to airlines) a Shrike did a touch & go with an EFTO and the instructor expected it to be aborted, but the student flew out of it due to what he thought was following traffic. The word was that he climbed out from EF at 65kts. The instructor let it run as there was plenty of runway and the a/c was performing - obviously not at a high weight!

Had many hours in the Shrike and loved every minute of it (.. ok, except for a couple of self-induced frights that shouldn't have happened).
John T, I agree with you, also having some 4000 hrs on Shrikes and other AeroCom models. Naturally, the self-induced frights were a thing of the time (or our experience!)

Would be happy to own and fly one now in retirement!!
triadic is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2015, 03:11
  #8 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: various places .....
Posts: 6,503
at Executive Air Services

Too far back for the details to filter out of the depths of the memory although I knew Bob was involved along the way. As I recall the work was done shortly prior to my taking up residence a couple of hangars up along the flightline ..

Bill Suhr ..

A sad reminder of how a little knowledge (re takeoff thrust) sometimes can be a tad dangerous ..

but due to some glitch in the paperwork

A problem with DCA philosophy back in those days .. the system didn't acknowledge such ownership and proprietary rights and many a local mod etc. (including a few of mine) were pinched willy nilly along the way.

There was a VFR and an IFR weight established under the Oz STC

Respectively 5000ft zero and one percent OEI climb gradients if the memory of the ANO requirements serves me right .. which gave the very nice weight increase cf the US variant. Some years later I did a similar exercise for a 500A and achieved useful weight improvements. Structural considerations were addressed by reference comparison to the bigger cousins and the odd mod done to fix up any deficiencies.

think they can fly it at 7400lb all day

.. but make sure both engines keep making noise. I certainly wouldn't have any desire for a failure at the limiting weight from a nasty runway too short to be able to abandon the takeoff ..

The word was that he climbed out from EF at 65kts

Now, that WOULD be interesting .. cf an exercise at EN where, for fun one afternoon in a Shrike, I did an AEO miss from the flare with a high cruise power setting .. only me on board .. and it took the whole runway at a rather low height before the beastie would deign to climb ... some of the boys in the terminal commented on the transition over a beer subsequently that evening.

Hear, hear on the self-induced frights and inexperienced enthusiasm ..
john_tullamarine is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2015, 03:24
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Australia
Age: 70
Posts: 150
EXO

Loved having our ex-EAS Shrike VH-EXO #3074.
I still have the EAS training notes for the type.
After I sold it, someone committed suicide in it at Thursday Isl I think it was.
It was one of the fast Shrikes that EAS had, 173kts at 22/2200.
Wish I still had it.
Skywagon1915 is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2015, 06:03
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Abeam Alice Springs
Posts: 938
EAS had a 500U (blunt nose) EXK which was about as fast, certainly a few kts faster than the other 500S's of the time. EXD was the slowest, nicked named the 'Dog'... now in the museum in DRW. Finished its life on coast watch.
triadic is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2015, 10:24
  #11 (permalink)  
BPA
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 618
Slight thread drift

20 odd Australian Shrike photos here;

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1715791&type=1

Last edited by BPA; 12th Mar 2015 at 11:33.
BPA is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2015, 10:59
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: THE BLUEBIRD CAFE
Posts: 60


from any angle, there is no aeroplane more photogenic.
Ted Smith and all the accolades so richly deserved.

Fantome is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2015, 09:53
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Next door to the neighbor from hell, who believes in chemtrails!
Age: 70
Posts: 1,596
WZV used to belong to West Wing Aviation. Was based in YPAG, doing the mail run.

DF.
Desert Flower is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2015, 12:05
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Next door to the neighbor from hell, who believes in chemtrails!
Age: 70
Posts: 1,596
Desert flower Im sure that WZV was cross hired... And was maintained by some mob out of ADL.
ChaseIt, it may well have been cross hired, however West Wing were using it on the mail run out of Port Augusta. It may have had some maintenance done in ADL, but I know a lot of it was done in ISA - because sometimes the pilot used to go up in WZV & come back in one of their Barons.

DF.
Desert Flower is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2015, 12:35
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The local
Posts: 108
You sure the last few years it wasn't based out of ADL?
ChaseIt is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2015, 12:36
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The local
Posts: 108
You sure the last few years it wasn't based out of ADL? Maybe a few trips to cairns for 'heavy' maintenance?
ChaseIt is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2015, 12:48
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Next door to the neighbor from hell, who believes in chemtrails!
Age: 70
Posts: 1,596
You sure the last few years it wasn't based out of ADL?
Not to my knowledge it wasn't.

DF.
Desert Flower is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2015, 21:00
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 485
Jesus, that was hard to read!

Probably shouldn't drink and post!
wishiwasupthere is online now  
Old 16th Mar 2015, 07:43
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 2,331
Two Dogs & ChaseIt

Maybe your another muppet holding a grudge ...[snip]... Stick and rudder buddy! it's not the owner, it's the PIC!
*you're*

Westwing takes blokes with low hours and I can't say I see them spearing in all over the place. Difference is in the approach the owner (and his staff) take with a new muppett to turn him into a well trained, skilled and valuable pilot.

We're all muppets on day 1; it's what we are taught (and how we apply it) that makes the difference on the day of reckoning.

Last edited by Horatio Leafblower; 16th Mar 2015 at 08:20.
Horatio Leafblower is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2015, 19:03
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Austraila
Posts: 9
After power loss airborne below blue line the 'muppet' you all speak of chose to put the aircraft back on the runway.

Now I don't know about all of you self proclaimed topguns but I was taught to do exactly what he did... Good decision under pressure.

If any of you have actually flown up there, and furthermore actually departed off runway 30 at Badu you would have done the same, and for the rest I can assure you that he did the right thing by all on board. Runway over run sounds wayyy better than hills and trees to me!

Say what you will about the company/management/aircraft, but the pilot needs praise, not criticism! And for the record, He is one of the most experienced up in the Straits.
jet_pilot00 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.