Two down near Townsville
STOP IT LEFTIE .. . YOU WILL GO BLIND
(my comment about ATSB is valid . .. even if not precisely in accordance with your rigorous approach to the avoidance of digression. One Darren Barnfield investigated the G White fatality. He is probably on this one.)
from the RAA facebook page July last year -
The Association is saddened to report two New South Wales members were fatally injured yesterday (6th July 2014) while flying a Morgan Sierra from Moruya airfield on the NSW South Coast.
Recreational Aviation Australia immediately dispatched a trained Accident Consultant, Technical Manager Darren Barnfield, to assist with investigating the accident’s possible cause(s). This investigation is hampered by the fact that the aircraft crashed into the ocean, with attempts to retrieve the wreckage commencing this morning by police.
Findings will be made available once the Coroner’s report is formally released.
Members will be advised if any immediate safety concerns are determined as a result of preliminary investigations.
We confirm one of the pilots was a well-known and highly respected Instructor and Pilot Examiner who also held GA Instructor qualifications, and the flight was conducted for the purposes of completing the pilot’s Biennial Flight Review in the owners’ own aircraft.
(my comment about ATSB is valid . .. even if not precisely in accordance with your rigorous approach to the avoidance of digression. One Darren Barnfield investigated the G White fatality. He is probably on this one.)
from the RAA facebook page July last year -
The Association is saddened to report two New South Wales members were fatally injured yesterday (6th July 2014) while flying a Morgan Sierra from Moruya airfield on the NSW South Coast.
Recreational Aviation Australia immediately dispatched a trained Accident Consultant, Technical Manager Darren Barnfield, to assist with investigating the accident’s possible cause(s). This investigation is hampered by the fact that the aircraft crashed into the ocean, with attempts to retrieve the wreckage commencing this morning by police.
Findings will be made available once the Coroner’s report is formally released.
Members will be advised if any immediate safety concerns are determined as a result of preliminary investigations.
We confirm one of the pilots was a well-known and highly respected Instructor and Pilot Examiner who also held GA Instructor qualifications, and the flight was conducted for the purposes of completing the pilot’s Biennial Flight Review in the owners’ own aircraft.
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The RAAus had two of their own in house investigators on site by the afternoon the following day. They are investigating with local police.
Power lines don't seem to be a factor. If it was a weather factor that caused both aircraft to break up in flight then it was a huge one. I doubt if this was the case. The Drifter was a two seater and the Thruster was either a 83,84 or 85 single seat model (very good chance i built it). They are all pretty much the same now as all have been upgraded engine and airframe wise. have never known either type to completely detach a wing before or seen such complete destruction on a Thruster. My personal view is mid air a tangle and a long fall almost vertical. But lets see what the coroner says.
FH
Power lines don't seem to be a factor. If it was a weather factor that caused both aircraft to break up in flight then it was a huge one. I doubt if this was the case. The Drifter was a two seater and the Thruster was either a 83,84 or 85 single seat model (very good chance i built it). They are all pretty much the same now as all have been upgraded engine and airframe wise. have never known either type to completely detach a wing before or seen such complete destruction on a Thruster. My personal view is mid air a tangle and a long fall almost vertical. But lets see what the coroner says.
FH
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The formation the pair were flying in would be of interest. If they were flying at the same height (quite likely), and both spotted the powerlines almost simultaneously - and the bloke on the right banked left, and the bloke on the left banked right, whilst both were distracted by concentrating on the power lines ... then that would be a possible MAC scenario.
However, it does seem strange that two highly-experienced older blokes would each be unaware of his mates position.
Then again, I notice that the older people get, the more they tend to get fixated on a single looming problem, and neglect awareness of accompanying developing situations, that are obvious to younger people.
However, it does seem strange that two highly-experienced older blokes would each be unaware of his mates position.
Then again, I notice that the older people get, the more they tend to get fixated on a single looming problem, and neglect awareness of accompanying developing situations, that are obvious to younger people.
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Very good chance they were familiar with the area and knew the hazards locations. Had they been in formation or just in 'accompaniment' and lost sight of each other?
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"Then again, I notice that the older people get, the more they tend to get fixated on a single looming problem, and neglect awareness of accompanying developing situations, that are obvious to younger people."
How did you get to notice that????
How did you get to notice that????
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My own advancing age provided some assistance with that observation. 
However, research by neuroscientists has proved, this is a fact - the older you get, the more you tend to become single-minded when presented with multiple tasks, and the lower your ability to multi-task - as compared to when you were much younger.
Seniors find multi-tasking harder than younger adults
However, research by neuroscientists has proved, this is a fact - the older you get, the more you tend to become single-minded when presented with multiple tasks, and the lower your ability to multi-task - as compared to when you were much younger.
Seniors find multi-tasking harder than younger adults
However, research by neuroscientists has proved, this is a fact - the older you get, the more you tend to become single-minded when presented with multiple tasks, and the lower your ability to multi-task - as compared to when you were much younger.
The problem is not that it gets harder to multi-task as we get older its the failure to accept that it is harder. Anecdotaly I would have to agree with the research. I have watched my parents age and am now watching my in-laws go through the same process and the issues are the same. Of course there will be variations between individuals but generally it is an accurate assessment. I once watched a Captain fixate on a slip of paper that should have been handed back to the groundstaff but the doors were closed and the stairs removed. By pressing the call bell three times to get someone to contact the flight crew he put the cabin on edge as three double chimes was also the emergency signal. Like I said anecdotal evidence but he wasn't the only older (over 60) Captain I saw do something similar. BTW I am rapidly approaching the same demographic and understand that my cognitive abilities are changing.
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Arnold - Every system of merit, as regards licencing, where necessary skills are declining with age, is based on testing and assessment, not a set age.
I know people in their late 50's who are already doddery in their thinking and responses - and I know people of over 80 who are sharp as tacks.
If intensive control skills are required to be at a minimum set level - for everyones safety - then assessment of the individuals abilities and responses is the only way to go.
The basic problem is trying to get people to understand that their skills have declined below a safe level, when such has been determined by testing and assessment.
Accident stats, in every industry, reveal that many highly experienced older people, commit grave errors in operation of equipment and machines that results in fatalities and serious injuries.
Those errors are in direct contravention of the common belief that "there's nothing that beats experience".
Unfortunately, long experience quite often leads to complacency, the slow ingress of bad habits, and inadvisable risk-taking.
Add in the very slow neuropathic decline in brain function that affects us all eventually - and the risk of accidents, fatalities and injuries slowly increases with advancing age.
These factors are something we all have to actively be aware of, as we age, and guard against their creeping in.
Many older people are aware of their declining abilities, and actively limit their operations to ones they know they are sure of, and within their capabilities.
Unfortunately, not one us likes to be told by a younger person, that our skills are not up to scratch, and our licencing will have to be downwards-adjusted accordingly.
But it's a fact of life, that if we ignore a reasonable assessment that our skills have declined below an acceptable level, then we are only one step away from an accident.
There's some extensive and interesting medical discussion in the link below, dealing with increasing cognitive impairment - not just 100% age-related, but with many other additional factors, discussed as well.
Poor or disrupted sleep patterns are one of the additional factors that reduces cognitive impairment. With more than one additional factor adding to the age factor, the potential for cognitive decline is quite alarming with increasing age.
Age-Related Cognitive Decline
I know people in their late 50's who are already doddery in their thinking and responses - and I know people of over 80 who are sharp as tacks.
If intensive control skills are required to be at a minimum set level - for everyones safety - then assessment of the individuals abilities and responses is the only way to go.
The basic problem is trying to get people to understand that their skills have declined below a safe level, when such has been determined by testing and assessment.
Accident stats, in every industry, reveal that many highly experienced older people, commit grave errors in operation of equipment and machines that results in fatalities and serious injuries.
Those errors are in direct contravention of the common belief that "there's nothing that beats experience".
Unfortunately, long experience quite often leads to complacency, the slow ingress of bad habits, and inadvisable risk-taking.
Add in the very slow neuropathic decline in brain function that affects us all eventually - and the risk of accidents, fatalities and injuries slowly increases with advancing age.
These factors are something we all have to actively be aware of, as we age, and guard against their creeping in.
Many older people are aware of their declining abilities, and actively limit their operations to ones they know they are sure of, and within their capabilities.
Unfortunately, not one us likes to be told by a younger person, that our skills are not up to scratch, and our licencing will have to be downwards-adjusted accordingly.
But it's a fact of life, that if we ignore a reasonable assessment that our skills have declined below an acceptable level, then we are only one step away from an accident.
There's some extensive and interesting medical discussion in the link below, dealing with increasing cognitive impairment - not just 100% age-related, but with many other additional factors, discussed as well.
Poor or disrupted sleep patterns are one of the additional factors that reduces cognitive impairment. With more than one additional factor adding to the age factor, the potential for cognitive decline is quite alarming with increasing age.
Age-Related Cognitive Decline
Last edited by onetrack; 15th Feb 2015 at 13:05. Reason: forgot how to spell and proof read ... [;-)
