Operate VH-reg Yak in Europe
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Leadie.
Geez mate, you obviously like a bit of drama.
I do have a permit from CASA to operate my N registered aircraft in Oz.
It has to be renewed annually and it was no problem to obtain as long as you have a good reason as to why you're keeping said aircraft on a foreign register.
Geez mate, you obviously like a bit of drama.
I do have a permit from CASA to operate my N registered aircraft in Oz.
It has to be renewed annually and it was no problem to obtain as long as you have a good reason as to why you're keeping said aircraft on a foreign register.
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No problem
As long as you are operating the VH aircraft in a ICAO contracting state then our CAR 42ZD 2b applies
2) A person may carry out maintenance on an Australian aircraft outside Australian territory if:
B. if the aircraft is in a Contracting State--the person would be permitted under the law of the Contracting State to carry out the maintenance if the aircraft were registered in the Contracting state
And no special permit required from either country.... For private ops at least.
Oow
2) A person may carry out maintenance on an Australian aircraft outside Australian territory if:
B. if the aircraft is in a Contracting State--the person would be permitted under the law of the Contracting State to carry out the maintenance if the aircraft were registered in the Contracting state
And no special permit required from either country.... For private ops at least.
Oow
EASA are trying to make it mandatory that crews have EASA equivalent licences to operate though, maybe that's what you'd heard?
Not "what I have heard", but what I have had some involvement, never underestimate the ability of the Brussels bureaucracy to stuff things up.
As I have already mentioned, a major part of the problem is FAA private operations are not necessarily recognised as private in EASA land, but public transport.
Recently I had a peripheral involvement with a Belgium based GA organisation that was a registered company in Delaware USA and operated an N-reg charter GA fleet using a french based FAA licensed maintenance organisation.
EASA might not like it, but I would have guessed the Chicago convention entrenches the right to do that.
EASA might not like it, but I would have guessed the Chicago convention entrenches the right to do that.
Re. maintenance, that is the equivalent of using an FAA approved facility anywhere. As you probably know, the "Delaware Corporation" is for US domestic tax purposes.
The Chicago Convention covers international air transport, any sovereign nation chooses to observe ICAO SOPs for domestic operations at the political policy discretion of the country. The situation you describe is rather interesting, I wonder how they manage that, most EASA countries in western Europe are very stick about other than the occasional "foreign" (non-EASA) registered aircraft being used on a local AOC (by whatever name)
Sadly, just like Australia, there is a lot of "we know best" in the EEC approach to US aviation. That US private (as we understand it) FAR 91 executive jet operations actually have better safety records than any European equivalent operations under a public transport AOC ( and FAR 135, for that matter) does not make the slightest difference to the local "thinking".
mnuts,
Indeed an interesting situation. My replies to you were based on the fact that I spend too much time with permits to fly for foreign (usually N) registered aircraft that do NOT have a standard/normal cat. C.of A.
In my experience, the aircraft involved are in Australia for a specific purpose, as I mentioned. Then, and only then, CASA may or may not cooperate, in the case of some specific scientific research, heavy political pressure had to be visited on CASA, for the research flights to go ahead.
I would think your situation is virtually unique, best of luck.
There are a number of cases of "flying and unregistered aircraft" and "flying an aircraft without a valid C.of A", where the aircraft was an import in the FAA Experimental Amateur Built cat., and the aircraft flew before the paperwork was complete, it was a very expensive exercise, in each case. In each case, of which I am aware, the owners thought it "would be OK" because the FAA paperwork was still valid.
Tootle pip!!
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outofwhak,
that's an very interesting hint thank you. I will do further research on this!
that's an very interesting hint thank you. I will do further research on this!
As long as you are operating the VH aircraft in a ICAO contracting state then our CAR 42ZD 2b applies
2) A person may carry out maintenance on an Australian aircraft outside Australian territory if:
B. if the aircraft is in a Contracting State--the person would be permitted under the law of the Contracting State to carry out the maintenance if the aircraft were registered in the Contracting state
And no special permit required from either country.... For private ops at least.
2) A person may carry out maintenance on an Australian aircraft outside Australian territory if:
B. if the aircraft is in a Contracting State--the person would be permitted under the law of the Contracting State to carry out the maintenance if the aircraft were registered in the Contracting state
And no special permit required from either country.... For private ops at least.
maehh,
Maintenance was never going to be your major problem ( but you do need a formal arrangement with CASA to produce an Australian MR -- after the local MRO has done the required) but legally flying an aircraft that DOES NOT have a standard/normal cat. C.of A.
Don't get hung up about maintenance.
As I have tried to explain, under normal circumstances, an Australian Experimental or Limited certificate is not valid outside Australia, without the express permission of the national aviation authority(s) involved.
Taking a (say) VH- Yak 52 to Europe is too hard/expensive.
Buying same in EU and putting it on the Australia register in EU is too hard/expensive.
The $$$ cost of either of the above would be frightening -- unless money doesn't matter.
The cheapest option, if you are determined to be an owner of such an aircraft, is to acquire one in EU, then sell it or bring it home after your stint in Europe is finished.
Maintenance was never going to be your major problem ( but you do need a formal arrangement with CASA to produce an Australian MR -- after the local MRO has done the required) but legally flying an aircraft that DOES NOT have a standard/normal cat. C.of A.
Don't get hung up about maintenance.
As I have tried to explain, under normal circumstances, an Australian Experimental or Limited certificate is not valid outside Australia, without the express permission of the national aviation authority(s) involved.
Taking a (say) VH- Yak 52 to Europe is too hard/expensive.
Buying same in EU and putting it on the Australia register in EU is too hard/expensive.
The $$$ cost of either of the above would be frightening -- unless money doesn't matter.
The cheapest option, if you are determined to be an owner of such an aircraft, is to acquire one in EU, then sell it or bring it home after your stint in Europe is finished.
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LeadSlep,
thanks again for your input.
I understand that that I need a permission from the local NAA to (privately) operate a VH-limited in their airspace, however this permission is regularly granted for a lot of N-reg experimental-exhibition aircraft over here. No costs involved, permission is valid for one year and can be renewed afterwards. Based on this I would expect that obtaining such a permission will be possible for a VH-limited too.
Please help me out and give me a hint what exactly makes it cost prohibitive if in fact maintenance is not the major issue.
This is certainly my preferred option! However costs involved to get this specific aircraft on a European register will be around 35k AUD + a lot of bureaucratic hurdles to jump through due to a mandatory SB exclusive to EASA-land. I'd be willing to invest this money however getting ones hands on the required modification kit is very very difficult at the moment. So I am not exactly sure if it really is the cheapest option.
Cheers
maehhh
thanks again for your input.
As I have tried to explain, under normal circumstances, an Australian Experimental or Limited certificate is not valid outside Australia, without the express permission of the national aviation authority(s) involved.
The $$$ cost of either of the above would be frightening -- unless money doesn't matter.
The cheapest option, if you are determined to be an owner of such an aircraft, is to acquire one in EU, then sell it or bring it home after your stint in Europe is finished.
Cheers
maehhh
Please help me out and give me a hint what exactly makes it cost prohibitive if in fact maintenance is not the major issue.
How about the cost of at least two visits by an approved person flown up from Australia, firstly to inspect the aircraft, and the second time, to issue the certificate.
About AUD $7-8000 for Premium Economy, if the said person will travel in that class, much more if they insist on business.
Plus time and expenses, it all adds up very quickly. It is rare for only one visit to be required to issue the certificate.
If it happens to be an aircraft that requires a type rating, and you don't already have one, that is also a cost issue, you will need a CASA approved person, if it comes in the Limited Cat. in Australia, you will be dealing with Australian Warbirds Association Ltd, and you will need to comply with all their bumpf, including negotiating an approved system of maintenance, it is aeroplane specific for all Limited (or Experimental/ Exhibition and negotiate with CASA) aircraft.
As for the SB specific to EASA, make certain CASA does not require some
/all of them.
It might work out easier and cheaper to initially put it on the N- register, but that is no longer straight forward for a non-US national.
Tootle pip!!
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maehhh,
How about the cost of at least two visits by an approved person flown up from Australia, firstly to inspect the aircraft, and the second time, to issue the certificate.
About AUD $7-8000 for Premium Economy, if the said person will travel in that class, much more if they insist on business.
Plus time and expenses, it all adds up very quickly. It is rare for only one visit to be required to issue the certificate.
How about the cost of at least two visits by an approved person flown up from Australia, firstly to inspect the aircraft, and the second time, to issue the certificate.
About AUD $7-8000 for Premium Economy, if the said person will travel in that class, much more if they insist on business.
Plus time and expenses, it all adds up very quickly. It is rare for only one visit to be required to issue the certificate.
certainly points to consider! I rather thought about shipping it to Oz get it inspected/certified/whatevernecessary over there and then bring it back to Europe. However I guess the shipping costs will be in a similar price range.
If it comes in the Limited Cat. in Australia, you will be dealing with Australian Warbirds Association Ltd, and you will need to comply with all their bumpf, including negotiating an approved system of maintenance, it is aeroplane specific for all Limited (or Experimental/ Exhibition and negotiate with CASA) aircraft.
It might work out easier and cheaper to initially put it on the N- register, but that is no longer straight forward for a non-US national.
Cheers
maehhh
however require the aircraft to be shipped to the US initially to get the certificate
I have recently been flying an aircraft in Thailand which came from Belgium. Whilst located in Belgium it was transferred from D registration to N registration. The CofA work for this was done by Rectimo aviation in France who have FAA mechanics, etc.
You will however, need a US address or entity to own the aircraft. This seems to be commonly done through Delaware based shelf companies.
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The CofA work for this was done by Rectimo aviation in France who have FAA mechanics, etc.
to my very best knowledge this is the critical point. The Yak will not have an CoA but needs to registered as Experimental Exhibition. I was informed that in order to dothis it has to be in the US initially.
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maehhh
Some Yak models are type-certificated in some EU countries, so why not talk to Richard Goode and ask if he can find you an aircraft that's already operating in Europe, then buy that one and do your European flying in it.
When you bring it home to Oz, re-register VH- and apply for an experimental certificate for exhibition under CASR 21.191(d), or go to Warbirds for Limited Category if you intend doing adventure flights.
You'd probably need to get some sort of Eu licence conversion, but that ought to be way cheaper than paying the shipping, certification and maintenance costs that have been discussed on this thread.
Good luck, Blowie
Some Yak models are type-certificated in some EU countries, so why not talk to Richard Goode and ask if he can find you an aircraft that's already operating in Europe, then buy that one and do your European flying in it.
When you bring it home to Oz, re-register VH- and apply for an experimental certificate for exhibition under CASR 21.191(d), or go to Warbirds for Limited Category if you intend doing adventure flights.
You'd probably need to get some sort of Eu licence conversion, but that ought to be way cheaper than paying the shipping, certification and maintenance costs that have been discussed on this thread.
Good luck, Blowie
I was informed that in order to dothis it has to be in the US initially.
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Blowie,
thanks for your input!
I have been (and still am) in contact with Richard but the Yak54s are a rare species.
Old Akro,
I will doublecheck this, I just got the contact information of a FAA approved DAR forwarded. Lets see
thanks for your input!
I have been (and still am) in contact with Richard but the Yak54s are a rare species.
Old Akro,
I will doublecheck this, I just got the contact information of a FAA approved DAR forwarded. Lets see
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How about the cost of at least two visits by an approved person flown up from Australia, firstly to inspect the aircraft, and the second time, to issue the certificate.
Edit: Although I guess maybe not if the aircraft won't have a CofA. I'd still contact Michael at Paper Planes for some advice.
