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CASA $1,000 Useless Compass Check

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CASA $1,000 Useless Compass Check

Old 8th Jan 2015, 21:33
  #41 (permalink)  
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Thunderbird. You say the compass check is not required under the regulation however my maintenance provider says it is.

I use John Cameron Aviation at Bankstown. I have always found them reputable.

Can anyone throw more light on the requirement ?
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 21:43
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Dick
Compass swing is two yearly mandatory requirement.
I would listen to the folk at JC Aviation, they are very reputable.
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Old 8th Jan 2015, 21:57
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Though I believe there is some tolerance in the NZ rules allowing the compass swing (and some other checks) to be deferred for a defined period of time to align with other mandatory maintenance.
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 01:22
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Though I believe there is some tolerance in the NZ rules allowing the compass swing (and some other checks) to be deferred for a defined period of time to align with other mandatory maintenance.
Yes there can be a 10% tolerance have it done 10% before or after. The 10% can be airframe or calendar depending on which method is used for determining the maintenance period.
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 06:15
  #45 (permalink)  
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So the CAA bureaucrats in New Zealand have also decided that they need to have more expensive regulations than the USA.

Those stupid Americans. How did they ever get to the moon. Must have been a fluke.
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 06:55
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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AIRWORTHINESS BULLETIN AWB 34-008 Issue : 1 Calibration of Compasses Date : 22 January 2007
Applicability
1.1 This Airworthiness Bulletin (AWB) is applicable to all aircraft and is intended to assist with calibrating and compensating aircraft magnetic compasses and provides data on the maximum allowable deviations enabling the compass to be maintained to its type design.
2.1 The objective of this AWB is to establish the minimum standard of maintenance considered necessary to ensure the accuracy of an aircraft compass system.
2.2 This AWB provides information for the calibration of direct reading and remote reading magnetic compasses. Alternative standards may be used provided they can demonstrate an equivalent level of safety.


There is no mention of compass in CAO100.5. CASA schedule 5 only mentions a compass inspection. The AWB above says 24 monthly calibration should be carried out.


So, Dick, para 2.2 gives you an out. Just demonstrate the equivalent level of safety given by the US system and tell your maintenance organization to stop doing the calibrations.


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Old 9th Jan 2015, 08:15
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Those stupid Americans. How did they ever get to the moon. Must have been a fluke.
I am sure it was Dick

Why is everybody fixated on the compass, what about the other parts of 100.5
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 08:21
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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The ridiculous thing is the calibration card will say "pitot heat on" or some such.

And yet the majority of VFR aircraft flying around have it switched off.

Next thing we know, CASA FOIs will be ensuring that pilots are turning on the pitot heat momentarily to get an accurate reading from the compass.

Idiots.

If the compass is unreliable or has bubbles or isn't accurate, pilot endorses the MR and it gets fixed. End of story.

Will CASA not be satisfied until there's no GA aircraft left in Australia?
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 08:34
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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So Dick, when we find ourselves coming in to the same uncontrolled airport, me in my quite fast, (I think) RV7 and you in what ever you choose to be flying that particular day, you are more than happy for me to be coming from a direction that I am not sure of. at an altitude that I have no idea of, and at a speed that could be anything. (Now I don't want you winging of my incorrect estimate of arrival.) Cant wait to meet you at that airport Dick

pilot endorses the MR and it gets fixed. End of story.
Now that has to be one of the funniest things I have EVER read on PPRuNe. That is a stupid statement. Ask ANY LAME about how many faults are actually written up. HaHaHa.......

Last edited by Arnold E; 9th Jan 2015 at 08:47.
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 08:34
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmm... perhaps if Mr smith thinks a compass calibration is a pointless rort and a waste of money he should just think of it as a 'compass tax' and he will feel all goodly about it... sorta like the pointless waste of money carbon tax he spruiks..

Dick Smith: I Was Gutless Over Carbon Tax Ads











.
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 08:58
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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coming from a direction that I am not sure of. at an altitude that I have no idea of, and at a speed that could be anything. (Now I don't want you winging of my incorrect estimate of arrival.)
Blatant hyperbole. Spoken like a true scaremonger. It's folks like you that GA in Australia can thank for thousands of pages of regs, tens of thousands of pages of CAOs and the same in MOSs.

You can't work out your orientation to an aerodrome without a calibrated compass? Really?

No idea of altitude? Really? No idea?

At a speed that could be anything? Really? Anything?

Please: Save us, CASA. We need more laws to prevent this from happening.
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 09:05
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Now that has to be one of the funniest things I have EVER read on PPRuNe. That is a stupid statement. Ask ANY LAME about how many faults are actually written up. HaHaHa.......
Shows how much some of the people actually operating the aircraft care if something works or not.
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 09:22
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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You can't work out your orientation to an aerodrome without a calibrated compass? Really?

No idea of altitude? Really? No idea?

At a speed that could be anything? Really? Anything?
I hear you Creampuff, but I am appropriately licensed to fly my aircraft and I could be at an airport near you, ( Ok not near you coz you are awsome) but I could be near Dick. The point is not everybody is as awesome as you flying without instruments.
Also, if you took that literally, then you are truly, shall we say, strange.
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 09:37
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Oh come on, if you're not using a GPS, or an Ipad with Ozrunways or Nav plan, or some other program, or a hand held GPS, then you're relying on century old technology.

It's a fundamental skill I'm told. So is fire starting, but who doesn't use a lighter or match? I can walk where I'm going, but why would I? I can drive! Everyone pretends they are some type of navigational God, deftly calculating ETA against airspeed, ground speed, and skin friction. But that's crap.

Old style navigation is stressful, needlessly difficult today, and one stands an excellent chance of getting lost. Before everyone decries falling standards and crap training, let me volunteer, the training I paid good money for was crap, and my navigation is Sh!it. Not because I want it to be, but a perfect compass won't help at all.
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 09:39
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Talking with a CASA guy a few years back they were hoping to include Compasses in CAO 100.5 . Until then it was in an AWB.

An Airworthiness Bulletin (AWB) is issued to inform the aviation public, in a systematic way, of essential information not considered mandatory.
CAO 100.6 was repealed in 2007.

So why mandatory every two years? . Surely if servicable you would just use until proven defective. Unless dictated by manufacturer or SOM

Happy to be proven wrong

Last edited by Hasherucf; 9th Jan 2015 at 09:40. Reason: More details
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 09:51
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Surely if servicable you would just use until proven defective.
Err, How do you do that???
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 10:19
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Now that has to be one of the funniest things I have EVER read on PPRuNe. That is a stupid statement. Ask ANY LAME about how many faults are actually written up. HaHaHa
So get CASA to save aircraft owners like Dick Smith these ridiculous costs, and instead get them to spend their time and money on enforcing the penalties on pilots for not recording aircraft defects.

Those pilots you refer to are wilfully breaking the law.

Perhaps if that culture didn't exist, there wouldn't be ridiculous inspection costs on aircraft owners.

In fact, if it weren't for CASA and these ridiculous expenses, perhaps aircraft owners could afford a new aircraft and their 40 year old c172 could be sent to the scrap heap where it belongs.
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 10:48
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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I just report the facts.
Fact 1: "Compass" does not get a mention in CAO 100.5. This CAO is where all other instrument checks get a mention.
Fact 2. CAO 108.6 regarding compass calibration was repealed (cancelled) in 2007.
Civil Aviation Order 108.6 Repeal Order 2007
which says "The Order is repealed as it is no longer required."
Fact 3. AWB 34-008 came in in 2007 and, while describing in good detail, what a compass calibration should be, is not a regulation or an order, it is advisory.
Fact 4 to support fact 3:
Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Airworthiness bulletins
An Airworthiness Bulletin (AWB) is issued to inform the aviation public, in a systematic way, of essential information not considered mandatory.

So CASA deliberately moved compass checks from mandatory to advisory, in 2007.

I'd suggest if any maintenance facility, or anyone for that matter, is stating categorically that something is mandatory, that's fine, just politely ask them to educate you, and show you where it says that in the regs. (Then go check if that reg still exists!)

My point is, don't believe everything you are told, just because it was told by a well respected party. Pop over to comlaw and check the facts, they are all there, gratis.
Some time back, I saw in a LAMEs field note book, CAO 108.6. I had to advise him that his notes were stale, as I knew 108.6 had gone long ago. He did not know this. I sent him all the info, and he was grateful.

To close, I don't make the lemonade, I just sell it.
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 11:07
  #59 (permalink)  
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Fascinating. On Monday I will go back to Cameron's and see what they say.

Watch this space!
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Old 9th Jan 2015, 12:08
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Crap 172

In fact, if it weren't for CASA and these ridiculous expenses, perhaps aircraft owners could afford a new aircraft and their 40 year old c172 could be sent to the scrap heap where it belongs.

My 1961 crap 172 is in better condition than when it left the factory thank you. And it still does the job better and more cost effectively than a lot of the "modern" junk sold as aircraft today. Aerodynamics hasn't changed and materials science has crawled forward somewhat. What has made huge advances is electronics. My ipad combined with two GPS, (Dynon EFIS, not for use just ornamental, the most accurate and reliable instrument in the aircraft) and backed up by an iphone makes my 172 a highly effective tool.


Dick stop whinging about it costing you $1000 to do a compass swing and making out that you care about everyone else getting stung for it. First world problems. Put the chopper on one of those specially constructed trailers that litter airstrips around the country and push it around on that.

As for CAO 100.5 blah blah put in a foxtel screen with new plumbing and tell the designers to make sure it can cross calibrate itself given they just sodomised you for tens of thousands of dollars for a product that dynon can make for one tenth of the price. For most fixed wing owners the compass swing is a small part of of the avionics calibration, which in my opinion is a valid maintenance requirement. If the technology had kept up it would be self calibrating as opposed to having to pay a human to do it.

Aviation is an extortion racket from head to toe and its time to pay the piper.
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