What can we do? CASA ATPL
Join Date: Jul 2010
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So Morno, you are and Octas are asserting anyone who obtained an ATPL prior to Sept 1st 2014 are basically incompetent?.
Re the flight test for ATPL if you can find a copy, CAO 40 appendix 3 detailed the requirements for an ATPL check ride.
Training Wheels,
Thats great but they better get them to left seat quick, the exam passes only have a two years lifespan.
Re the flight test for ATPL if you can find a copy, CAO 40 appendix 3 detailed the requirements for an ATPL check ride.
Training Wheels,
Thats great but they better get them to left seat quick, the exam passes only have a two years lifespan.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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The two years validity only apples to the individual exams - all exams must be completed within two years of each other.
Once you have passed them all you are awarded an ATPL exam credit. Currently this does not expire. You could hold it for 30 years without doing the flight test. CASA has said this may change but at the moment the exam credit (all seven exams passed within two years) lasts indefinitely.
So you may as well complete them if you think you may need an ATPL at some point in the future.
Once you have passed them all you are awarded an ATPL exam credit. Currently this does not expire. You could hold it for 30 years without doing the flight test. CASA has said this may change but at the moment the exam credit (all seven exams passed within two years) lasts indefinitely.
So you may as well complete them if you think you may need an ATPL at some point in the future.
Why should you not have to demonstrate the requirements for an ATPL by means of a flight test?
Basically everything you do for the type rating and/or IR will be duplicated in the ATPL flight test. So what's the point other than clogging up the sims and creating jobs for CASA? (What's the bet noone will be able to book a sim so everything will be done at 0300!)
Unless they start making the ATPL test a test of your command ability in which case it will be a complete open ended nightmare.
CAO 40 doesn't say much about the ATPL flight test either. If anyone has a reference could they post it.
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The hardest flying you'll ever do is Single Pilot IFR.
ATPL flight test. What a load of bullish!t.
If you can only have an ATPL if you fly for an airline operation, the airline specific training path will have you 'full bottle' on the required standard, and if you have an ATPL before joining the airline you still have to do the training, which therefore makes any input by CAsA totally irrelevant.
CAsA, boldly going where no man has gone before. Totally Lost in Space.
ATPL flight test. What a load of bullish!t.
If you can only have an ATPL if you fly for an airline operation, the airline specific training path will have you 'full bottle' on the required standard, and if you have an ATPL before joining the airline you still have to do the training, which therefore makes any input by CAsA totally irrelevant.
CAsA, boldly going where no man has gone before. Totally Lost in Space.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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So Morno, you are and Octas are asserting anyone who obtained an ATPL prior to Sept 1st 2014 are basically incompetent?
Anyone who got an ATPL previously, did so with unknown & untested multi-crew management skills. Maybe they were good, maybe they weren't. My multi-crew management skills were non-existent, although I did have good stick & rudder skills.
if you hold type rating and a instrument rating what more is a ATPL check going to do?
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Well yes they are. What about someone in their late 30's at the bottom of huge seniority list realising they will be late 50's before they have the opportunity for a command. They want to go overseas so at least they will see a command, where are they going with an Australian CPL? If you don't have a US or EU work Visa you are limited to Asia or the Middle East, all of which require ATPL.
The thing in Europe is that it doesn't take forever to get a command. The likes of RyanAir and easyjet don't have 20 years to a command
The thing in Europe is that it doesn't take forever to get a command. The likes of RyanAir and easyjet don't have 20 years to a command
Like many others around here are saying. Australia was unique in the way we never had an ATPL flight test until September. If someone wanted to go overseas to progress their career, ATPL subjects will suffice. The hardest part of what you suggest will be a) right to live and work in respective country b) licence conversion to JAA/EASA.
A quick Google looking at recently advertised jobs in EU shows me this;
B737NG FO Ryanair
Have the right to work in EU. (Valid EU / EEA Passport with the unrestricted right to live and work in the EU)
Not over 65
Valid EASA Part FCL, JAR FCL or National Licence compliant with ICAO standards (Will require IAA validation, some national licences will not be accepted by the IAA).
Must hold a valid Class 1 medical.
Minimum 1200 hours total flying time
Minimum of 1000 hours on airplanes of more than 5700 kg (12500 pounds) maximum certificated take-off weight.
Minimum 800 hours on the B737-300 to 900 series
Applicant must have the B737 300-900 type rating listed on the Licence.
For JAA & EASA licence holders the application must be made within 36 months of the most recent B737 300-900 “Valid Until” date specified in Section XII “Certificate of Revalidation”.
English Language Proficiency Rating of 4, 5 or 6. (Written proficiency at Operator level).
Not over 65
Valid EASA Part FCL, JAR FCL or National Licence compliant with ICAO standards (Will require IAA validation, some national licences will not be accepted by the IAA).
Must hold a valid Class 1 medical.
Minimum 1200 hours total flying time
Minimum of 1000 hours on airplanes of more than 5700 kg (12500 pounds) maximum certificated take-off weight.
Minimum 800 hours on the B737-300 to 900 series
Applicant must have the B737 300-900 type rating listed on the Licence.
For JAA & EASA licence holders the application must be made within 36 months of the most recent B737 300-900 “Valid Until” date specified in Section XII “Certificate of Revalidation”.
English Language Proficiency Rating of 4, 5 or 6. (Written proficiency at Operator level).
EASA/JAR Frozen ATPL license with IR and ME rating
Class 1 medical certificate
MCC certificate
Minimum 21 year of age when applying
Good knowledge of English (ICAO ELP4) and German mandatory, Turkish desirable
Unlimited Passport, Legal work in Europe
Holding a Type Rating on Boeing 737-800/900 is an advantage but not a requirement
Class 1 medical certificate
MCC certificate
Minimum 21 year of age when applying
Good knowledge of English (ICAO ELP4) and German mandatory, Turkish desirable
Unlimited Passport, Legal work in Europe
Holding a Type Rating on Boeing 737-800/900 is an advantage but not a requirement
Those jobs are only available to those with a EU work visa which severely limits an Australian's options.
Most Australians end up going to the Middle East or Asia which is where you need an ATPL to even apply. Which is what I said above.
Will be interesting to see how EK and EY deal with this in the future but for now you need an ATPL.
Most Australians end up going to the Middle East or Asia which is where you need an ATPL to even apply. Which is what I said above.
Will be interesting to see how EK and EY deal with this in the future but for now you need an ATPL.
EY and EK also need time on specific types. If you have the type that they accept then you can do an ATPL. What's the problem?
I have never heard of a pilot getting a job at EK with just light GA time and an "Aussie" ATPL.
I have never heard of a pilot getting a job at EK with just light GA time and an "Aussie" ATPL.
If you went from GA>RHS Turboprop>RHS seat jet you would qualify for EK. But in the future those guys will have a CPL and therfore can't apply
BTW to get into EK or EY you just need jet time nothing specific. Heard of people getting in with anything from BAE 146/ F100 to A380 FO experience.
BTW to get into EK or EY you just need jet time nothing specific. Heard of people getting in with anything from BAE 146/ F100 to A380 FO experience.
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Neville has a valid potential problem there.
However, it remains to be seen what happens to the GA -> RHS TP -> RHS Jet pilot without an ATPL who wants to go overseas. That particular scenario under the new rules is at least three or four years away IMO.
By then, changes will have occurred to Australian hiring criteria and perhaps to mid-East hiring criteria too. Let's wait and see whether that particular problem arises.
However, it remains to be seen what happens to the GA -> RHS TP -> RHS Jet pilot without an ATPL who wants to go overseas. That particular scenario under the new rules is at least three or four years away IMO.
By then, changes will have occurred to Australian hiring criteria and perhaps to mid-East hiring criteria too. Let's wait and see whether that particular problem arises.
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So has this joke of a regulation been fixed yet or has no one obtained an ATPL since the regulation change in September? Seems quite poor to me for a regulator of any industry to change regulations without measures in place to enable the industry to continue operation efficiently.
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but has anyone actually done an ATPL flight test as of yet?
Tootle pip!!
Anyone who got an ATPL previously, did so with unknown & untested multi-crew management skills
Every airline still has it's occasional Captain Queeg in the left seat or its First Officer Sullen and Uncooperative in the right hand seat. All the MCC courses in the world including CRM and TEM or the latest fad terms, are never going to change a person's basic personality flaws - if they exist.
MCC courses have turned into yet another aviation cottage industry from which most pilots learn nothing that they didn't already know - and pay through the nose for the pleasure
^^^^^^^^^^
What he said...
What he said...
