RPL Part 61 CASA limitations
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RPL Part 61 CASA limitations
G'day fellas
I have almost done my RPL and am scratching my head over a few things. The main source of confusion is the 25nm limit. Now if i fly from moorabbin and Tooraddin is 24nm away, am i allowed to fly to tooraddin or is the "you must land at the departing aerodrome" rule still active? From my quick glance at the regs I haven't found the answer. Thanks guys
I have almost done my RPL and am scratching my head over a few things. The main source of confusion is the 25nm limit. Now if i fly from moorabbin and Tooraddin is 24nm away, am i allowed to fly to tooraddin or is the "you must land at the departing aerodrome" rule still active? From my quick glance at the regs I haven't found the answer. Thanks guys
Email your regional CASA safety advisor (see their website) for a usable answer - no point getting the info off a bulletin board, really. Since this Part 61 bizzo was implemented I've been sending off questions as they invited us to do at various seminars, and they've been getting back fairly promptly with useful answers. If they don't know they pass it on to someone who does (or is supposed to anyway).
That's not to say some of the answers haven't been a bit non-committal or ambiguous at times, but in the main have been very good.
On your question, I think the RPL without a nav endorsement is clearly meant to be like the old GFPT, ie fly in the local training area but don't go naving anywhere. If there are usable airfields in the local area, I don't see why you can't land at them if you've been in with an instructor, but I'm pretty sure you can't just hop in less than 25 mile legs and go around Australia.
That's not to say some of the answers haven't been a bit non-committal or ambiguous at times, but in the main have been very good.
On your question, I think the RPL without a nav endorsement is clearly meant to be like the old GFPT, ie fly in the local training area but don't go naving anywhere. If there are usable airfields in the local area, I don't see why you can't land at them if you've been in with an instructor, but I'm pretty sure you can't just hop in less than 25 mile legs and go around Australia.
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Break out.
Why don;t you just get the Nav endorsement. You can use a $10 Ipad Simulator and get hours and hours of instrument reading training for nothing, so It'll be a cinch to do your flight practicals in the real plane after that.
I think there's a 5 hour cross country you have to do as well, and get home safely, but I don't know if it has to be done solo or dual. Solo wouldn't cost that much (compared to what you've already done)
I think there's a 5 hour cross country you have to do as well, and get home safely, but I don't know if it has to be done solo or dual. Solo wouldn't cost that much (compared to what you've already done)
I agree, ask CASA. I've never got a reply from my friendly safety advisor (perhaps my questions are too difficult) so flight crew licensing by phone is my starting point.
Last edited by djpil; 24th Nov 2014 at 10:43. Reason: Oops, corrected nav error.
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Part 61 clearly states that you cannot go beyond 25nm from your home/training organisation aerodrome, so hopping around the countryside in 25nm legs is not permitted.
Whether or not you can land at aerodromes that fall within the 25nm limit of your home aerodrome is unspecified, but my understanding is that it's okay with Instructor approval and prior training.
Whether or not you can land at aerodromes that fall within the 25nm limit of your home aerodrome is unspecified, but my understanding is that it's okay with Instructor approval and prior training.
clearly states that you cannot go beyond 25nm from your home/training organisation aerodrome,
authorised to pilot an aircraft outside the following areas only if the holder also holds a recreational navigational endorsement
(a) the area within a 25 nautical miles of the departure aerodrome
(a) the area within a 25 nautical miles of the departure aerodrome
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Standing corrected on the Part 61 wording: It doesn't specify 25nm from your home aerodrome, just the 'departure' aerodrome.
Strictly speaking, this could imply that 25nm hopping flights are permissible, although I imagine CASA will move to modify their wording when enough people complain of the ambiguity.
Reminds me of the whole 'flying without an ELT' debacle, where 50nm hops are okay, but >50nm is illegal without an ELT.
Strictly speaking, this could imply that 25nm hopping flights are permissible, although I imagine CASA will move to modify their wording when enough people complain of the ambiguity.
Reminds me of the whole 'flying without an ELT' debacle, where 50nm hops are okay, but >50nm is illegal without an ELT.
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Curious about Ambiguity
""to pilot" is quite a broad activity which can be determined from the regs. "departure aerodrome" seems like a fairly simple concept but who knows with CASA."
I'm curious about the above statement that djpil wrote... I'm sure the OP is talking about either flying solo or with friends/familiy aboard. So if he's the only licenced airman aboard, he must therefore be PIC, so if the rules will be applied to anyone, they will be applied to him, right?
What else is there to 'piloting'? I mean its kind of do or die, wouldn't you say?
I'm curious about the above statement that djpil wrote... I'm sure the OP is talking about either flying solo or with friends/familiy aboard. So if he's the only licenced airman aboard, he must therefore be PIC, so if the rules will be applied to anyone, they will be applied to him, right?
What else is there to 'piloting'? I mean its kind of do or die, wouldn't you say?
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The way I would interpret it (but who knows what CASA mean) is that you must take off, not fly more than 25nm radius from that departure aerodrome, AND, return to the same departure aerodrome.
I agree that it is unclear if you can land at other aerodromes within the 25nm radius for a pitstop, but my interpretation would be that you are expected to return to the departure aerodrome at the end of the flight.
So what defines a flight... i.e. if I landed for said pitstop, is it a new flight?
Of course that is all just my interpretation as it is not clear. I am also not far of getting my RPL, so am interested in understanding what the hell that actually mean
I agree that it is unclear if you can land at other aerodromes within the 25nm radius for a pitstop, but my interpretation would be that you are expected to return to the departure aerodrome at the end of the flight.
So what defines a flight... i.e. if I landed for said pitstop, is it a new flight?
Of course that is all just my interpretation as it is not clear. I am also not far of getting my RPL, so am interested in understanding what the hell that actually mean
Uncertainty about what the regulations require and permit? Shirley you jest!
Perhaps “area” is intended to mean “airspace”? That way the RPL holder without recreational navigational endorsement will always be confined to out-and-back to the same place.
No doubt CASA will have a variety of clear answers as to:
(1) Whether an RPL holder without a recreational navigational endorsement is allowed to take off from an aerodrome and land at any other aerodrome or landing area within 25 nautical miles (assuming the other aerodrome or landing area is suitable for the landing and taking off of the aircraft being flown).
(2) Whether the “departure aerodrome” is always the same place.
Perhaps “area” is intended to mean “airspace”? That way the RPL holder without recreational navigational endorsement will always be confined to out-and-back to the same place.
No doubt CASA will have a variety of clear answers as to:
(1) Whether an RPL holder without a recreational navigational endorsement is allowed to take off from an aerodrome and land at any other aerodrome or landing area within 25 nautical miles (assuming the other aerodrome or landing area is suitable for the landing and taking off of the aircraft being flown).
(2) Whether the “departure aerodrome” is always the same place.
Hey Josh, I am saying you can do whatever you like if you own your own aircraft.
BUT if you are renting from anyone I am guessing they will have the final say in where you can fly and what you can do. From my experience I reckon I could get the average beginner RPL lost within 25 nm of a lot of airports. Which brings me back to Mutley's post: Why don't you just get a navigation endorsement.
BUT if you are renting from anyone I am guessing they will have the final say in where you can fly and what you can do. From my experience I reckon I could get the average beginner RPL lost within 25 nm of a lot of airports. Which brings me back to Mutley's post: Why don't you just get a navigation endorsement.
As the RPL has been touted as a licence that fundamentally replaces a GFPT, I think it's pretty clear they meant for flights to happen in the local training area of the aerodrome where the aircraft is based, and for anything further afield to require a nav endo.
As it's a licence, though, you don't need a school, instructor or a training area to fly in once you've got it, hence the 25 nm thing to replace the concept of 'don't fly far from your home base until you know how to navigate'.
As it's a licence, though, you don't need a school, instructor or a training area to fly in once you've got it, hence the 25 nm thing to replace the concept of 'don't fly far from your home base until you know how to navigate'.
YMMB - YTDN is 20.9nm so you are good to go; see you there for crayfish 
(if you are allowed to land)
You can also come back via Tyabb and be less than 20 miles.
Certainly much better than flying around exclusively in the trailing area
The RA-Aus nav rating is the same and every so often someone asks if they can bunny-hop their way around the country.
(if you are allowed to land)You can also come back via Tyabb and be less than 20 miles.
Certainly much better than flying around exclusively in the trailing area
The RA-Aus nav rating is the same and every so often someone asks if they can bunny-hop their way around the country.
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Thanks guys, from what I remember about the GFPT Part 61 regs, I think it stated that you could only land at the departing aerodrome. but now who knows, the RPL is so different to the GFPT, such as the fact that when you have the RPL, you can sign the maintenance release?! Who knew?! The only reason why I can't be fagged to get the Nav endorsement on the RPL is that I will be doing my PPL pretty much straight after the RPL, I just thought that when I had the RPL, it would be pretty cool to be able to take the family for a crayfish dinner in a stylish 1979 Piper warrior II 
Last edited by joshfly97; 21st Dec 2014 at 11:06.
