Plane crash Chelsea?
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@Squawk7700 - the only things I can think of that could cause a 9,000 fpm decent are a spin or inflight airframe breakup.
I've seen another comment here that talks about a near 0 horizontal speed on impact, which would correlate with either of the two scenarios above.
The refueller I spoke with extinguished the fire himself, so I think he's a credible source.
I've seen another comment here that talks about a near 0 horizontal speed on impact, which would correlate with either of the two scenarios above.
The refueller I spoke with extinguished the fire himself, so I think he's a credible source.
Near zero impact speed is not consistent with the witness reports or crash area. Don't believe half of what you hear and only a quarter of what you read on pprune.
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the only things I can think of that could cause a 9,000 fpm decent are a spin or inflight airframe breakup.
But in other light aircraft I have flown a fully developed spin usually sees ROD around 3,000 fpm. It will be interesting to see if the whole empennage was intact up to the point of contact with terrain. There was some story about part of the aircraft falling hundreds of metres from the main debris field. Was that ever proven? What was the debris?
One of the YMMB refuellers told me two weeks ago he was degassing one of the big fuel tanks
DF.
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If one wanted to be technically pure about it, the plane would have to hit precisely vertical to not go very far, and with the amount of energy having been converted from a Potential energy of 3000' to virtually sea level in under half a minute (check the radar returns) it would create a crater.
As pointed out before it sounds more like a spiral dive. Hence it had a small horizontal component.
To call out the so called evidence of PeterC and yr right, please explain your theories. Actually maybe better not.
There were no signs of performance issues (ignore the usual witness reports), no radio broadcasts of any issue or distress, easy glide to beach or water away from houses and what certainly looks like a spiral dive under power (known).
Draw your own conclusions to the above but it does not sound like your average CFIT does it, nor engine/mechanical failure.
As pointed out before it sounds more like a spiral dive. Hence it had a small horizontal component.
To call out the so called evidence of PeterC and yr right, please explain your theories. Actually maybe better not.
There were no signs of performance issues (ignore the usual witness reports), no radio broadcasts of any issue or distress, easy glide to beach or water away from houses and what certainly looks like a spiral dive under power (known). Draw your own conclusions to the above but it does not sound like your average CFIT does it, nor engine/mechanical failure.
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Incident
Jaba, Considering this is a rumour network...
People I have personally spoken to, suggest he was having some trouble during the week leading up to that weekend, including rough running as he passed on take off.
A pilot I know was holding, awaiting some time for him to clear the runway and didn't think he would make it past the end of the runway.
The atsb may or may not like to ask around, ultimately this is tragic and
luckily no one else was injured.
If this is correct, hopefully it is not a case of maintenance costs being a factor.
RIP.
People I have personally spoken to, suggest he was having some trouble during the week leading up to that weekend, including rough running as he passed on take off.
A pilot I know was holding, awaiting some time for him to clear the runway and didn't think he would make it past the end of the runway.
The atsb may or may not like to ask around, ultimately this is tragic and
luckily no one else was injured.
If this is correct, hopefully it is not a case of maintenance costs being a factor.
RIP.
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Perspective,
I hope you are wrong, but I usually have trouble finding reason to disbelieve you either
In that case how is it he seems to have done a very fast vertical descent rather than head for the coast?
Strange indeed.
I hope you are wrong, but I usually have trouble finding reason to disbelieve you either
In that case how is it he seems to have done a very fast vertical descent rather than head for the coast?
Strange indeed.
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What would an investigator be looking for?
We have an apparently quite talented and multiple-qualified (PPL, CPL/IR) experienced pilot in good weather flying an aircraft with which he is very familiar.
If the airframe was intact up to the impact he should have handled an engine failure from 3000' quite well. However there is the mention by a policeman attending the crash site that some part of the aircraft fell "many hundreds of metres away". What part was that?
If that story proves untrue, is it possible the pilot has been incapacitated? Either by engine fumes, or some internal (to him) sudden physiological trauma. I presume the investigators will be able to access the pilot's medical history.
It's extremely sad and as long as the cause is unclear anyone in the pilot's age group, fueling where he fueled, getting maintained where he was, or anyone flying the type should have cause for concern.
We have an apparently quite talented and multiple-qualified (PPL, CPL/IR) experienced pilot in good weather flying an aircraft with which he is very familiar.
If the airframe was intact up to the impact he should have handled an engine failure from 3000' quite well. However there is the mention by a policeman attending the crash site that some part of the aircraft fell "many hundreds of metres away". What part was that?
If that story proves untrue, is it possible the pilot has been incapacitated? Either by engine fumes, or some internal (to him) sudden physiological trauma. I presume the investigators will be able to access the pilot's medical history.
It's extremely sad and as long as the cause is unclear anyone in the pilot's age group, fueling where he fueled, getting maintained where he was, or anyone flying the type should have cause for concern.
Hmmm... i really do need to get me self a few more pprune call signs. Then i could back up any story i wanted..
This year i been involved in the hull recovery of a couple of minor aircraft prangs. Didn't see the prangs though due to my later involvement people seem to want to discus with me what they seen of the prangs. I've heard several 'eye witness' story's now and not one agrees with the other.
I'd hate to think of the conflicting 'eye witness' reports the ATSB has to sift through after a serious prang, what with them who seem to want to put out their own bull ****e narrative..
.
This year i been involved in the hull recovery of a couple of minor aircraft prangs. Didn't see the prangs though due to my later involvement people seem to want to discus with me what they seen of the prangs. I've heard several 'eye witness' story's now and not one agrees with the other.
I'd hate to think of the conflicting 'eye witness' reports the ATSB has to sift through after a serious prang, what with them who seem to want to put out their own bull ****e narrative..
.
A pilot I know was holding, awaiting some time for him to clear the runway and didn't think he would make it past the end of the runway.
It all seems a little strange. Surely if the climb rate was that bad due to the engine missing, you would return to the field?
Interesting that the re-fueller has said that "2 weeks" ago this happened, but his family said that his last flight was a month ago as he was away.
I'd hate to have to be a cop or ATSB and wade through all of this. He said, she said
I've also heard the above theory from two different sources, rough running during and after take off. I figure when you hear it from several sources and now others here that perhaps it has traction, but investigstions will hopefully resolve these issues. Perhaps this played a part, but there could be another reason for the very slow forward speed. If the conditions down there were anything like northern Vic, then the wind was a howling southerly and very turbulent that day? Was it like that at YMMB? What's the glide speed of the RV?
The way the ATSB go, we may know in 4 years or so.
The way the ATSB go, we may know in 4 years or so.
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Perspective,
Yep, or a stroke or some other issue. It happens on the roads and can happen in the air. It may well be a rare event but it could happen.
If bits fell off, I can imagine powered up and control stick pushed over in a medical event, an RV6 will be through VNE in a flash and beyond, and bits would then be likely to depart. If in fact they did.
Post-mortem might reveal something if this is the case. I hope the ATSB find something conclusive.
Yep, or a stroke or some other issue. It happens on the roads and can happen in the air. It may well be a rare event but it could happen.
If bits fell off, I can imagine powered up and control stick pushed over in a medical event, an RV6 will be through VNE in a flash and beyond, and bits would then be likely to depart. If in fact they did.
Post-mortem might reveal something if this is the case. I hope the ATSB find something conclusive.
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debris
All the speculation in the world wont change the result I know,
but was just suggested to me, that the debris that may have been found
some distance from the aircraft were maps or charts, alluding to a possible
Bird Strike?
It would not be the first at Moorabbin and probably not the last.
In all of this, ultimately it would be unfair, even given the alleged information at hand, to assume it was the Engine issue responsible.
I think the atsb will have their work cut out for them on this one.
but was just suggested to me, that the debris that may have been found
some distance from the aircraft were maps or charts, alluding to a possible
Bird Strike?
It would not be the first at Moorabbin and probably not the last.
In all of this, ultimately it would be unfair, even given the alleged information at hand, to assume it was the Engine issue responsible.
I think the atsb will have their work cut out for them on this one.