Plane crash Chelsea?
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JR
Fred and I were not suggesting they would not investigate…I know they are, but the statement made by yr right is not correct. There have been several a few years back in certified aircraft and experimental that were not.
ATSB lately have a new level of interest these days. And about time.
Fred and I were not suggesting they would not investigate…I know they are, but the statement made by yr right is not correct. There have been several a few years back in certified aircraft and experimental that were not.
ATSB lately have a new level of interest these days. And about time.
I was told by the insurance investigator at the time that light aircraft had been crashing for the same reasons for the last 50 odd years (true in that paticular case) and ATSB (at that point at least) were mostly investigating pax fatalities and accidents that werent obvious 'run out of fuel' type stuff.
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Yr Right,
I've just read your statement about the ATSB. The following reference from the January 2014 ATSB guide for Police and Emergency Services might assist you in better understanding their roles:
The ATSB may investigate sports aviation
accidents and those involving amateur-built aircraft, particularly fatal
accidents involving ‘VH registered’ powered aircraft. The ATSB will
not normally investigate accidents involving gliders or motor gliders,
personal recreation balloon operations or non-VH registered aircraft
unless the possible existence of a wider safety issue is indicated.
When the ATSB does not investigate, the ATSB will inform the
appropriate sporting body and the police to that effect. In those cases,
the police will normally coordinate the accident investigation.
The police may wish to utilise the expertise of the organisations
involved in sports aviation to assist their investigation. These may
include:
• Gliding Federation of Australia – Gliding Australia for soaring and sailplane pilots
• Recreational Aviation Australia – Recreational Aviation Australia
• Australian Parachuting Federation – Home - Australian Parachute Federation
• Australian Sport Aviation Confederation – The Air Sport Australia Confederation (ASAC)
• Australian Sports Rotorcraft Association – ASRA Home Page
So as you can see ATSB do not investigate all deaths. Pretty sure they also don't do base jumpers, motorized trikes, para-gliders etc. Also it would appear that they don't get involved in military matters or criminal matters unless requested by the investigating authority.
I'm surprised you didn't know this given your vast legal experience and provision of expert evidence at court.
Stiky
I've just read your statement about the ATSB. The following reference from the January 2014 ATSB guide for Police and Emergency Services might assist you in better understanding their roles:
The ATSB may investigate sports aviation
accidents and those involving amateur-built aircraft, particularly fatal
accidents involving ‘VH registered’ powered aircraft. The ATSB will
not normally investigate accidents involving gliders or motor gliders,
personal recreation balloon operations or non-VH registered aircraft
unless the possible existence of a wider safety issue is indicated.
When the ATSB does not investigate, the ATSB will inform the
appropriate sporting body and the police to that effect. In those cases,
the police will normally coordinate the accident investigation.
The police may wish to utilise the expertise of the organisations
involved in sports aviation to assist their investigation. These may
include:
• Gliding Federation of Australia – Gliding Australia for soaring and sailplane pilots
• Recreational Aviation Australia – Recreational Aviation Australia
• Australian Parachuting Federation – Home - Australian Parachute Federation
• Australian Sport Aviation Confederation – The Air Sport Australia Confederation (ASAC)
• Australian Sports Rotorcraft Association – ASRA Home Page
So as you can see ATSB do not investigate all deaths. Pretty sure they also don't do base jumpers, motorized trikes, para-gliders etc. Also it would appear that they don't get involved in military matters or criminal matters unless requested by the investigating authority.
I'm surprised you didn't know this given your vast legal experience and provision of expert evidence at court.
Stiky
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Condolences to all concerned.
I note on the front page of the local newspaper that the Pilot is being lauded as a hero for missing homes, kids playground etc. This gets thrown around a lot in the media. If it happened to us, would we be conscious of trying to miss homes and playgrounds? I'm not sure what I would do in the same situation but I doubt I'd know if a playground was below me. Was it luck that he missed the house by centimetres? Would he be still called a hero if he went through the roof of the house? Food for thought.
I note on the front page of the local newspaper that the Pilot is being lauded as a hero for missing homes, kids playground etc. This gets thrown around a lot in the media. If it happened to us, would we be conscious of trying to miss homes and playgrounds? I'm not sure what I would do in the same situation but I doubt I'd know if a playground was below me. Was it luck that he missed the house by centimetres? Would he be still called a hero if he went through the roof of the house? Food for thought.
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Reporting
The usual cliches are present in the mainstream news:
1. Fatal plunge
2. 'There was a stall of the engine of that plane and it has come down and collided with the corner of a house....' (Police inspector)
3. 'I heard the engine roar'
4. "I heard the motor squeal.'
5. The pilot did a good job of keeping away from houses.'
6. The pilot is a hero
I really wish a bit more thought would go into the reporting which simply seems to be quoting verbatim anything that is said.
1. Fatal plunge
2. 'There was a stall of the engine of that plane and it has come down and collided with the corner of a house....' (Police inspector)
3. 'I heard the engine roar'
4. "I heard the motor squeal.'
5. The pilot did a good job of keeping away from houses.'
6. The pilot is a hero
I really wish a bit more thought would go into the reporting which simply seems to be quoting verbatim anything that is said.
Given the (apparently, from press photos) relatively short debris field and the resulting state of the airframe, I'd guess it was pretty much a "fatal plunge" with very little directional control. I'd imagine that the ground speed was non-zero, but only just.
It's very sad event for the RV community. The RV-6 is a pretty robust airframe that has many examples flying for many years now, it's hard to believe it might be much else other than pilot incapacitation.
It's very sad event for the RV community. The RV-6 is a pretty robust airframe that has many examples flying for many years now, it's hard to believe it might be much else other than pilot incapacitation.
It was also stated on Channel 9 news this morning that the pilot made a phone call to emergency services just before the crash. 
DF.
DF.
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Condolences to the aviators family and friends.
A sad time again for GA.
'There was a stall of the engine of that plane and it has come down and collided with the corner of a house....' (Police inspector)
It is these type of comments that have the masses worried that all it takes is an engine to quit and planes just fall out of the sky like house bricks.
A sad time again for GA.
'There was a stall of the engine of that plane and it has come down and collided with the corner of a house....' (Police inspector)
It is these type of comments that have the masses worried that all it takes is an engine to quit and planes just fall out of the sky like house bricks.
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Sticky.
I don't mean that the bloke that fell over on the road and die will be investigated.
Use your skill and read between the line or do I have to put absolutely everything down like some others won't me to do.
As I said. What has happened.
3 Atsb people have left to do an investigation. If you was correct the 3 would be replaced by a 0. However that is not the case I stated when I made the post. But hey you know more about it than I.
I don't mean that the bloke that fell over on the road and die will be investigated.
Use your skill and read between the line or do I have to put absolutely everything down like some others won't me to do.
As I said. What has happened.
3 Atsb people have left to do an investigation. If you was correct the 3 would be replaced by a 0. However that is not the case I stated when I made the post. But hey you know more about it than I.
If only you knew
If only you knew. Trust me Steve, he has more experience on the topic than many at the ATSB, if not all of them combined!
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Condolences to the family and to all others who new the Pilot.
Back in 1997 I watched the enthusiasm and determination as he commenced his flying. A man with a genuine passion for anything that fly's.
RIP friend.
Back in 1997 I watched the enthusiasm and determination as he commenced his flying. A man with a genuine passion for anything that fly's.
RIP friend.
Let's all re-group and start again.
Our flying friend John has been tragically lost in his RV6.
The ATSB are investigating.
We have no idea what caused this tragic loss.
The SAAA and Darrren B have been working with the media via interviews to to dispell "homemade" aircraft myths by providing factual information.
Our flying friend John has been tragically lost in his RV6.
The ATSB are investigating.
We have no idea what caused this tragic loss.
The SAAA and Darrren B have been working with the media via interviews to to dispell "homemade" aircraft myths by providing factual information.
I watched an online news video today that had Stuart Trist from Moorabbin Chapter making some informed comments on John, his piloting skills and the general procedures of building a homebuilt. It sounded fairly well informed.
It sounded fairly well informed
Someone keeps deleting their posts from this thread.
It has hit 4 pages 3 times today !
It has hit 4 pages 3 times today !
Traffic at YMMB pretty much ceased for the day out of respect I imagine.
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One of the YMMB refuellers told me two weeks ago he was degassing one of the big fuel tanks when this RV6A caught fire trying to restart the engine after refuelling.
This caused a panic, but the fire was quickly extinguished and the RV6A was towed away to the grass parking area.
Also heard a rumour third-hand that a couple of LAMEs saw the RV6A take off that day at YMMB and expected an aborted takeoff due to the engine missing, but that the flight continued.
This caused a panic, but the fire was quickly extinguished and the RV6A was towed away to the grass parking area.
Also heard a rumour third-hand that a couple of LAMEs saw the RV6A take off that day at YMMB and expected an aborted takeoff due to the engine missing, but that the flight continued.
Peter, did your sources also say that the missing engine caused the aircraft to descend at 9,000 fpm?