Government funded flight training: the loan to nowhere
Most medical students drop out in the first year before they rack up a huge debt. Secondly, if you have done half a law or medical degree at least you have some transferable skills. What transferable skills does three quarters of a CPL give you?
Loans for flying isn't the same as loans for law and medical degrees. Also, you have to score in the top 2 percent of school leavers to get into law and top 1 percent for medicine. You don't even need to have passed your HSC to get fee help for flying. It's a huge scam.
Loans for flying isn't the same as loans for law and medical degrees. Also, you have to score in the top 2 percent of school leavers to get into law and top 1 percent for medicine. You don't even need to have passed your HSC to get fee help for flying. It's a huge scam.
Students see these loans as "free flying" and believe the glossy brochures because they say exactly what they want to hear. When they are young they don't want to think about the consequences of this massive debt hanging around their necks for decades to come, no, it's "free flying" now! I probably would have been the same as a teenager but couldn't afford my first lesson until I was 26 and had established a good career doing something else.
The reality is very different to the glossy brochures. The ponzi scheme is making someone rich somewhere I suppose. I'd rather my taxes were used to improve airport infrastructure that train a whole lot of pilots who are surplus to requirements.
The reality is very different to the glossy brochures. The ponzi scheme is making someone rich somewhere I suppose. I'd rather my taxes were used to improve airport infrastructure that train a whole lot of pilots who are surplus to requirements.
The Federal Government is 'owed' over $300m by students who have not repaid their loans. many of these are university course loans of less than $30,000. If these students don't see any necessity to repay loans - then what does this say for the probity of the custodians of our tax dollar? It says that they don't really care - and students have long since sussed that out.
Now there is a parallel with university student loans and with aviation loans. Both are ill conceived, and both are poorly managed.
Do we need a tertiary trained workforce in Australia? Hell no - not when we're using the 457 visa scheme to fill essentially jobs that well eddicated Aussies feel are demeaning and below their exalted status of uni graduate! Does a Canberra tealady need an MBA? Do we need more CPL's? No way! All that's happening is that training organisations are continuing to operate profitably - while the taxpayer is funding a major share of these programs. The result is too many tertiary providors and too many flight schools.
If the government of the day were committed to rational expenditure, they would close off this wasteful system and allow the real market to sort itself out. If there is a perceived future shortage - offer non-repayable scholarships to students based on aptitude, and this will be more likely to see them remain in their chosen profession - and in Australia.
The recession we're about to have is going to force government into trimming these expenditures.
Now there is a parallel with university student loans and with aviation loans. Both are ill conceived, and both are poorly managed.
Do we need a tertiary trained workforce in Australia? Hell no - not when we're using the 457 visa scheme to fill essentially jobs that well eddicated Aussies feel are demeaning and below their exalted status of uni graduate! Does a Canberra tealady need an MBA? Do we need more CPL's? No way! All that's happening is that training organisations are continuing to operate profitably - while the taxpayer is funding a major share of these programs. The result is too many tertiary providors and too many flight schools.
If the government of the day were committed to rational expenditure, they would close off this wasteful system and allow the real market to sort itself out. If there is a perceived future shortage - offer non-repayable scholarships to students based on aptitude, and this will be more likely to see them remain in their chosen profession - and in Australia.
The recession we're about to have is going to force government into trimming these expenditures.
These loans are unsecured/unbacked credit. Anyone who really understands money creation knows that this kind of thing is an inflationary pressure. It's collectively eating away at our money's purchasing power. We should all be mad about it.
If someone who wanted to borrow the money had to stump up some collateral of some kind to take the loan, it would significantly curtail the amount of credit available. Of course, it's not PC, because only the "rich kids" would get the opportunity.
...except it's the same thing because the "rich kids" aren't being turned into perpetual debt slaves in the same way the naive "poor, underprivileged" kids are.
Anyway, I'm sure we can get the guvmint to fix it. They've done such a stellar job on everything else...
If someone who wanted to borrow the money had to stump up some collateral of some kind to take the loan, it would significantly curtail the amount of credit available. Of course, it's not PC, because only the "rich kids" would get the opportunity.
...except it's the same thing because the "rich kids" aren't being turned into perpetual debt slaves in the same way the naive "poor, underprivileged" kids are.
Anyway, I'm sure we can get the guvmint to fix it. They've done such a stellar job on everything else...
poteroo, they've "sussed it out" have they? It gets taken out automatically once they hit $53,345: Loan Repayment - Study Assist
So they're deliberately limiting their income for life to avoid paying back a few grand?
Why does anyone who has no qualification need to study? An MBA is about as useful to most managers as it is to a tea lady, based on the amount of damage said graduates inflict on organisations.
So they're deliberately limiting their income for life to avoid paying back a few grand?
Why does anyone who has no qualification need to study? An MBA is about as useful to most managers as it is to a tea lady, based on the amount of damage said graduates inflict on organisations.
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at unsw we do have a contract with qlink and the top 5-6 students each year graduate and immediately get employed at qlink because they value the training done here
AFAIK, the last FO induction at Eastern was in June last year. Sunstate have done a few more, with the last intake over six months ago.
IT WOULD BE MY GUESS that the Sunstate intakes were from our hold file, which is still pretty extensive and I know personally some people who've been on it for around two years.
immediately get employed at qlink because they value the training done here
I've been speaking with some training captains over the past few weeks and the feeling I got was that there was a dissatisfaction with the 250 hour pilots that were coming through.
DIVOSH!
Poteroo has said it much better than I could, and yes students should show some kind of aptitude before they start. it has always amazed me how people have been pressured to "sign up" for an Integrated course (using the GST exemption as bait) when there is no knowing if that person has any aptitude whatsoever or even the ability to pass the medical!
Ironically, I didn't get a callback for a Baggage Handling job, as I had "done too well on the aptitude tests".
That explains why so much baggage gets lost...
That explains why so much baggage gets lost...
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Ironically, I didn't get a callback for a Baggage Handling job, as I had "done too well on the aptitude tests".
That explains why so much baggage gets lost...
That explains why so much baggage gets lost...
I've worked as a Baggage Handler previously, before aptitude tests were required.
The Aptitude Tests online were more difficult than RAAF Pilot Aptitude tests that I passed.
The Aptitude Tests online were more difficult than RAAF Pilot Aptitude tests that I passed.
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FEE HELP to the back of the que
Agreed, FEE HELP is clogging the market with countless fresh pilots
1) This has lowered the bar I believe as a lot more people who either don't have the stomach for GA after they finish, people with bad attitudes or people who shouldn't fly as opposed to before. (maybe ratios the same but the fact is there's more on the market)
2) I believe FEE HELP should be means and skills tested. Impose an aptitude test (with a maximum number of attempts) otherwise pay for your own training. I still remember seeing several students start a program who were illiterate and innumerate (I still don't know how they got a HSC) They really struggled and couldn't finish which made me feel bad for them.
3) From sources at UNSW and QLK, there is absolutely not truth to what the previous poster said maybe that's what they tell you at induction. But no newbies are making it in. I'm afraid industry progression has slowed drastically so don't expect a quick easy ride to an airline in AUS within the next couple years.
1) This has lowered the bar I believe as a lot more people who either don't have the stomach for GA after they finish, people with bad attitudes or people who shouldn't fly as opposed to before. (maybe ratios the same but the fact is there's more on the market)
2) I believe FEE HELP should be means and skills tested. Impose an aptitude test (with a maximum number of attempts) otherwise pay for your own training. I still remember seeing several students start a program who were illiterate and innumerate (I still don't know how they got a HSC) They really struggled and couldn't finish which made me feel bad for them.
3) From sources at UNSW and QLK, there is absolutely not truth to what the previous poster said maybe that's what they tell you at induction. But no newbies are making it in. I'm afraid industry progression has slowed drastically so don't expect a quick easy ride to an airline in AUS within the next couple years.
Jack,
As far as I know you can't get a govt funded place on an MBA course. Secondly, an arts degree at least will give you something an employer in more than one industry will want. If I was advertising for a junior manager and I got an arts degree holder with no experience and a CPL holder with no experience then the job most probably go to the arts degree holder.
As far as I know you can't get a govt funded place on an MBA course. Secondly, an arts degree at least will give you something an employer in more than one industry will want. If I was advertising for a junior manager and I got an arts degree holder with no experience and a CPL holder with no experience then the job most probably go to the arts degree holder.
Evilducky
Unfortunately the only one who thinks the way you trained or payed for it is important, is you..
Saying that, if its a first job, the employer may be wary until he's seen or not seen a few things from a candidate. Like can you actually think and fly at the same time?
The one big difference I feel is that unless you've had to fork out a grand at a time for a nav, or pull the card out at the end of the flight, you dont ever really feel the value.
By the time you have the experience to apply for certain jobs, they'll wanna know if you can fly, do you know your stuff, do you meet the requirements, and are you a W@nker?
My experience with guys from fee help schools is that there's a simple cross section of ability just like any other cross section. the thing is that due to having paid for it, there is a percentage of special cases that get through that wouldn't anywhere else unless mummy and daddy have a lot of money.
From what I know of fee help schools out of the initial numbers in a class that start, very few finish...
Unfortunately the only one who thinks the way you trained or payed for it is important, is you..
Saying that, if its a first job, the employer may be wary until he's seen or not seen a few things from a candidate. Like can you actually think and fly at the same time?
The one big difference I feel is that unless you've had to fork out a grand at a time for a nav, or pull the card out at the end of the flight, you dont ever really feel the value.
By the time you have the experience to apply for certain jobs, they'll wanna know if you can fly, do you know your stuff, do you meet the requirements, and are you a W@nker?
My experience with guys from fee help schools is that there's a simple cross section of ability just like any other cross section. the thing is that due to having paid for it, there is a percentage of special cases that get through that wouldn't anywhere else unless mummy and daddy have a lot of money.
From what I know of fee help schools out of the initial numbers in a class that start, very few finish...
