Bankstown Airport – Desperately Sad
It doesn't help movement figures when YSBK charge nearly $8000 pa for a Piper PA28 to park there.
Never mind that the marginal cost to provide parking is close to zero so one would think that encouraging more parking/aircraft would be great for the airports' bottom line., but no, they go the way of trying to extract their total costs + profit from a dwindling user base, which then results in less users and higher fees.
= positive feedback and less actual aviation usage.
Before the effing privatisation occurred I remember that it often required a lot of head swiveling and occasional laps of the grassed areas to find a parking spot after landing.
I don't know what the hangar-owners/renters pay and I am afraid to ask.
Never mind that the marginal cost to provide parking is close to zero so one would think that encouraging more parking/aircraft would be great for the airports' bottom line., but no, they go the way of trying to extract their total costs + profit from a dwindling user base, which then results in less users and higher fees.
= positive feedback and less actual aviation usage.
Before the effing privatisation occurred I remember that it often required a lot of head swiveling and occasional laps of the grassed areas to find a parking spot after landing.
I don't know what the hangar-owners/renters pay and I am afraid to ask.
Last edited by KittyKatKaper; 7th Oct 2014 at 10:23.
Dick is right,
Bankstown is like some third rate third world airport in the back of Africa.
They are so pro active!!!!!!!!!
I keep my aircraft in a hangar at around $1000 a month. Which when you consider a charge of $62 per day outside parking courtesy of BAL is double the charge for under cover.
Then just push the aircraft outside for even 5 minutes and the Gestapo arrive.
But the best part is their collection department. The chap in charge rings after 5 days for payment, I guess with so little movements they need to chase every dollar.
When Flew thru Biggin Hill and then Cannes, the difference is like chalk and cheese. Both the English and the French are now so pro General Aviation it is funny.
BAL need to take a good hard look at themselves and start running a business it's call aviation.
BUT HELL THEY ARE PURPOSELY RUNNING IT DOWN TO THE POINT WHERE THEY CAN JUSTIFY SELLING IT OFF TO A DEVELOPER AS A BEAUT HOUSING ESTAE WITH LIGHT INDUSTRIAL ON THE SIDE.
Bankstown is like some third rate third world airport in the back of Africa.
They are so pro active!!!!!!!!!
I keep my aircraft in a hangar at around $1000 a month. Which when you consider a charge of $62 per day outside parking courtesy of BAL is double the charge for under cover.
Then just push the aircraft outside for even 5 minutes and the Gestapo arrive.
But the best part is their collection department. The chap in charge rings after 5 days for payment, I guess with so little movements they need to chase every dollar.
When Flew thru Biggin Hill and then Cannes, the difference is like chalk and cheese. Both the English and the French are now so pro General Aviation it is funny.
BAL need to take a good hard look at themselves and start running a business it's call aviation.
BUT HELL THEY ARE PURPOSELY RUNNING IT DOWN TO THE POINT WHERE THEY CAN JUSTIFY SELLING IT OFF TO A DEVELOPER AS A BEAUT HOUSING ESTAE WITH LIGHT INDUSTRIAL ON THE SIDE.
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Jumpnut,
a bit if deja vu, all them that complained about aircraft noise at Hoxton Park and celebrated its closure and sale now have a 24 seven truck depot. YAH!
Good onya truckers hammer them airbrakes!! few air horns as well.
Bk is pretty well run by Toll, eventually it'll go the same way.
Kitty,
no you really don't want to know...pity Marion street aint a taxi way, industrial off airport is way cheaper.
Dick,
one question I would like asked is, how come I can buy Jet A1 at Mascot for $1:05 a Litre, yet at BK its $185 a litre, about the same as at Bourke?? Wouldn't be retail price maintenance would it? and there I was believing that was illegal.
But for Mascots insane costs it would be cheaper to fly to Sydney to refuel for BK jet operators.
Always wondered why the big end of town with their heavy metal, given the costs of parking, restrictions on operations with slots etc, why they don't fly out of BK.....wouldn't be the fuel cost would it??
A few years back, I flew my boss to Sydney in his BBJ. Flight started in Paris, ended with stops enroute in Sydney. Costs from Paris to O/head Port Headland about half of Port Headland to Sydney. Parking at YSSY double that of Heathrow.
Needless to say he was pissed off, felt like he'd been cheated and vowed never to come to Australia again, to my knowledge he never has.
This guy would spend 30 million on half a dozen horses in the USA.
I really was embarrassed as an Australian.
Have you seen how VIP's are treated here?? They arrive in their 50 million VIP jet, and do our Customs come to the aircraft???
Not on your Nellie.
Park at the international terminal (Big Bill) walk your Passengers in the pouring rain, or stinking heat across the tarmac, dodging baggage trains etc. Clamber through the bowels of the terminal basement, to be confronted by some surely Customs bitch apparently suffering from severe PMS, because politeness aint in her vocabulary, just to get an anointing stamp in the passport.
Retrace your steps and finally restart and wend your way to the VIP terminal to blessed relief.
Dick, you've seen how the rest of the world does it, its a national disgrace!
a bit if deja vu, all them that complained about aircraft noise at Hoxton Park and celebrated its closure and sale now have a 24 seven truck depot. YAH!
Good onya truckers hammer them airbrakes!! few air horns as well.
Bk is pretty well run by Toll, eventually it'll go the same way.
Kitty,
no you really don't want to know...pity Marion street aint a taxi way, industrial off airport is way cheaper.
Dick,
one question I would like asked is, how come I can buy Jet A1 at Mascot for $1:05 a Litre, yet at BK its $185 a litre, about the same as at Bourke?? Wouldn't be retail price maintenance would it? and there I was believing that was illegal.
But for Mascots insane costs it would be cheaper to fly to Sydney to refuel for BK jet operators.
Always wondered why the big end of town with their heavy metal, given the costs of parking, restrictions on operations with slots etc, why they don't fly out of BK.....wouldn't be the fuel cost would it??
A few years back, I flew my boss to Sydney in his BBJ. Flight started in Paris, ended with stops enroute in Sydney. Costs from Paris to O/head Port Headland about half of Port Headland to Sydney. Parking at YSSY double that of Heathrow.
Needless to say he was pissed off, felt like he'd been cheated and vowed never to come to Australia again, to my knowledge he never has.
This guy would spend 30 million on half a dozen horses in the USA.
I really was embarrassed as an Australian.
Have you seen how VIP's are treated here?? They arrive in their 50 million VIP jet, and do our Customs come to the aircraft???
Not on your Nellie.
Park at the international terminal (Big Bill) walk your Passengers in the pouring rain, or stinking heat across the tarmac, dodging baggage trains etc. Clamber through the bowels of the terminal basement, to be confronted by some surely Customs bitch apparently suffering from severe PMS, because politeness aint in her vocabulary, just to get an anointing stamp in the passport.
Retrace your steps and finally restart and wend your way to the VIP terminal to blessed relief.
Dick, you've seen how the rest of the world does it, its a national disgrace!
Last edited by thorn bird; 7th Oct 2014 at 12:18.
short flights long nights
It is interesting that some mentioned boats. It has always been a complaint of mine ever since this whole user pays thing for aviation started. They don't do it for the recreational boat user...but the do it to GA. Well, they can do it for a little while longer to GA, then there will be nothing left.
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Sop's, no offence but you should keep your trap shut, you'll give them ideas...after they've killed GA they will be casting about for something else to regulate out of existence.
What else can they do with all the incompetent clowns that infect CAsA??
About all I have left to enjoy is my boat, so please keep it quiet mate.
What else can they do with all the incompetent clowns that infect CAsA??
About all I have left to enjoy is my boat, so please keep it quiet mate.
Last edited by thorn bird; 7th Oct 2014 at 11:38.
short flights long nights
Sorry....no more marine talk..I promise.
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"Can't put housing at bankstown as it is a flood plan."
Yr right,
your right, but it didn't stop them dumping, I don't know how many cubic meters of uncertified fill ( Naughty, naughty no EPA blessing?) on a flood plain and contaminated ground to boot, ie unexploded buried ordinance, to build an industrial estate.
Careful next time your in Bunnings, the floor just might erupt beneath you.."Its called the big bang theory"
Yr right,
your right, but it didn't stop them dumping, I don't know how many cubic meters of uncertified fill ( Naughty, naughty no EPA blessing?) on a flood plain and contaminated ground to boot, ie unexploded buried ordinance, to build an industrial estate.
Careful next time your in Bunnings, the floor just might erupt beneath you.."Its called the big bang theory"
And you can't even buy a pre flight coffee from the shop on a Saturday morning anymore. (As I found out a week ago when a mate picked me up from the terminal.)
From the air, I noticed that the housing around YSBK is being redeveloped at a rapid rate. All those big blocks with run down homes. No doubt, BAL have firm plans to develop YSBK for housing or more warehouses.
Out of interest... Do Toll ever fly those Metros parked outside their warehouses?
From the air, I noticed that the housing around YSBK is being redeveloped at a rapid rate. All those big blocks with run down homes. No doubt, BAL have firm plans to develop YSBK for housing or more warehouses.
Out of interest... Do Toll ever fly those Metros parked outside their warehouses?
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Sops,
your a saint mate, by boat, I meant "tinny" but its my "Ship"..bout all one can afford after a lifetime in aviation. Just dreading having to face the boatman on the Stynx one day soon. Not to worry I love elephants!!
your a saint mate, by boat, I meant "tinny" but its my "Ship"..bout all one can afford after a lifetime in aviation. Just dreading having to face the boatman on the Stynx one day soon. Not to worry I love elephants!!
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It would take a high profile public figure to bring it to the publics' (and subsequently the Government's) attention
The public just see GA as a rich mans toy and if you asked 100 members of the general public what they know I bet over 90 of them would answer along a very similar vein of "Little Cessna's? They crash all the time, aren't they dangerous?"
The government don't care because there is no money and no votes in it. How many active pilot licences are there right now in Australia? 60-70 thousand? Spread across the whole country? There are much larger, much crazier lobby groups that wield more influence to get noticed and 'buy' votes than anyone in aviation. And even if we did have numbers to matter, we couldn't form a cohesive bunch. The last time any two given pilots agreed on any given subject was when Orville and Wilbur chose the field in Kittyhawk, and it's been nothing but in-fighting and backstabbing ever since. FFS, no two people in aviation can even agree about when to clean a set of injectors, and we are expected to form a cohesive lobby group to get our lot improved?! HA!
I guess though, soon, it won't matter, cos Dick was actually right. I remember BK in the 90's, there being 6 or 7 big schools, a few small ones, and NOWHERE to park, there were so many aircraft there. You could hold a football match on the area where Navair used to park now, and not hit anything. I guess that's what happens on a race to the bottom in an industry where the next guy is prepared to work for free just to get the experience and there are people willing to take them on for it.
Anyway, I am tired and going to bed!
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WVA that much? Gee, they must be "crowd funding" the new airport!!!
I can't believe there are people on this forum actually calling on MORE fees on aviation????
We should all be saying and writing to casa, airservices, your local members,, the papers, blah, blah to ef off.
.. but we don't and we let them ream us for more... there is something fundamentally wrong not just with the guvmint but us as well. Not speaking up is agreeing with the system, just like not responding to a claim in court is acquiescing to it.
And while Dick seems to be the only one speaking up he has a chorus of naysayers behind him. What a screwed up community this is.
The truth is that WE allow the so called powers to do this. Government is for the people not the other way around. There is a fundamental misalignment in our thinking.
Like the fear mongering going on with security. 9/11 happened in the US. Seen their security around airfields?
I can't believe there are people on this forum actually calling on MORE fees on aviation????
We should all be saying and writing to casa, airservices, your local members,, the papers, blah, blah to ef off.
.. but we don't and we let them ream us for more... there is something fundamentally wrong not just with the guvmint but us as well. Not speaking up is agreeing with the system, just like not responding to a claim in court is acquiescing to it.
And while Dick seems to be the only one speaking up he has a chorus of naysayers behind him. What a screwed up community this is.
The truth is that WE allow the so called powers to do this. Government is for the people not the other way around. There is a fundamental misalignment in our thinking.
Like the fear mongering going on with security. 9/11 happened in the US. Seen their security around airfields?
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Not in England
dhavillandpilot Quote:-" Both the English and the French are now so pro General Aviation it is funny"
From what I have read on this forum, Oz and the U.K. are suffering the same malaise.
Over here EASA is pulling the strings but AOPA is trying to soften the jerk. GA airfields are under threat from developers, two closed at the end of September and others are under threat. The Government is not interested and Councils see an airfield as a new suburb.
Manston Airport in Kent was sold by the council for £1, yes £1, to the owner of a public transport Company. There was a proviso that it must be kept for use as an airport. Some ten months later the airport has closed and the owner has rejected a £5 million offer from someone that wanted to continue to use Manston as an airport. The council refused permission for night freight operations.
There is nothing pro GA here in England - I do own a vintage Piper.
I'm afraid we are all in the same boat, albeit in different oceans.
From what I have read on this forum, Oz and the U.K. are suffering the same malaise.
Over here EASA is pulling the strings but AOPA is trying to soften the jerk. GA airfields are under threat from developers, two closed at the end of September and others are under threat. The Government is not interested and Councils see an airfield as a new suburb.
Manston Airport in Kent was sold by the council for £1, yes £1, to the owner of a public transport Company. There was a proviso that it must be kept for use as an airport. Some ten months later the airport has closed and the owner has rejected a £5 million offer from someone that wanted to continue to use Manston as an airport. The council refused permission for night freight operations.
There is nothing pro GA here in England - I do own a vintage Piper.
I'm afraid we are all in the same boat, albeit in different oceans.
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When I started at bankstown in the late 70s you could not get a a lot to get into the cicurit.
You could not get a parking space. Rex and piper had new aircraft every where. Then in the mid 80s the rot set in.
Now it's dead. Hangar rates have now risen past normal commercial rates for floor space.
One person I heard of had there rates risen 600% this year. Now if you have a support shop you just can't pack up and leave. Your casa approval has to be redone for the new premises the time and cost involved is just a killer.
Some off the people running these airports must be ex Russians straight from the iron curtain. Held in a frozen condition and rolled out as airport managers.
Not been to bankstown for a long time but it saddens me to see what happened to the busiest airport in the southern airport but then again the greens would be happy.
You could not get a parking space. Rex and piper had new aircraft every where. Then in the mid 80s the rot set in.
Now it's dead. Hangar rates have now risen past normal commercial rates for floor space.
One person I heard of had there rates risen 600% this year. Now if you have a support shop you just can't pack up and leave. Your casa approval has to be redone for the new premises the time and cost involved is just a killer.
Some off the people running these airports must be ex Russians straight from the iron curtain. Held in a frozen condition and rolled out as airport managers.
Not been to bankstown for a long time but it saddens me to see what happened to the busiest airport in the southern airport but then again the greens would be happy.
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Out and about
Jack Ranga Quote:- "You lot need to get out more"
I would really like to do so, it's just getting more and more expensive to do it. I'm sure that your Australian colleagues feel the same way.
Avgas in the U.K. £2.00 a litre.
I would really like to do so, it's just getting more and more expensive to do it. I'm sure that your Australian colleagues feel the same way.
Avgas in the U.K. £2.00 a litre.
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Don't worry Dick - some people are doing something about it!
Here are a group of dedicated people doing something about this appalling situation.
Please consider making a contribution as this is the culmination of over eight (8) years of work and tireless effort to bring those responsible kicking and screaming to be held to account.
Minister Warren Truss is using your tax-payer dollars to fund a high-powered legal team - Ashurst Lawyers from Canberra to defend a position he rejected when he was last in Government.
If successful this action will be a watershed moment and turn the airport privatisation model on its head.
Please consider making a contribution as this is the culmination of over eight (8) years of work and tireless effort to bring those responsible kicking and screaming to be held to account.
Minister Warren Truss is using your tax-payer dollars to fund a high-powered legal team - Ashurst Lawyers from Canberra to defend a position he rejected when he was last in Government.
If successful this action will be a watershed moment and turn the airport privatisation model on its head.
We Need YOU!
Dear fellow Aviator,
AAT Proceedings
As you should be aware by now your Chamber (AACCI) has had proceedings in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) since August 2012. Our action is challenging ex-Minister Anthony Albanese's disastrous decision in May 2012 to approve the 2011-2031 Archerfield Airport Master Plan.
If permitted to stand unchallenged by your Chamber, the Minister’s approval would clear the way for Archerfield Airport Corporation (AAC) to proceed with an irreversible and permanent downgrading of the critical aviation infrastructure that exists at Archerfield Airport. This includes the unacceptable loss of the 04/22 runway complex, the Archerfield Control Tower, the fuel farms and above all would obliterate many aviation businesses without compensation.
This is solely an industrial land grab by AAC without appropriate regard to the consequences to and requirements of the aviation users (that's YOU!) and also the overall public interest both now and into the future.
The Chamber's action is now set down for trial commencing from the 18th November to 26th November 2014 with an airport site visit by the AAT Deputy President Hack on the 17th November 2014.
Up to twenty-seven (27) witnesses, (most of whom have made extensive written statements) will be appearing for the Chamber - including our expert witnesses. If you are a witness you will soon be receiving a summons to appear before the AAT. Although this will be for the entire period from and including the 18th November, the exact day or days you will be required will be confirmed closer to the time. Persons pre-approved by the AAT will be able to provide evidence by phone or video link.
All members and their supporters are welcome to attend the hearing but everyone who receives a summons cannot be present in the hearing room until after they have given their evidence as a witness. If you attend the AAT before you are called, objections could be raised against your evidence including the possibly of totally invalidating your evidence – so please exercise extreme care about this.
What will be achieved?
The AAT has stated they are not running a royal commission. That said, the main issues, properly prosecuted by expert legal counsel will result in the 2011-2031 Master Plan being rejected by the AAT and possibly replaced by the Chamber’s alternative master plan (which was ratified by the Chamber in General Meeting) being approved by the AAT to then become the 2011-2031 Master Plan.
This decision will not only help rescue Archerfield Airport from unscrupulous land development, but will help every other secondary airport and the ALOP airports throughout Australia.
It is extremely important to understand that this is not just an action for the benefit of Archerfield Airport alone.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) and the Department of Infrastructure and Transport clearly do not know their own rules. Both Government Departments have been acting merely as a post office and have not done their job.
There will be significant ramifications for the Minister and section heads of these departments from our proceedings as the spotlight is now turned on to what they have done.
Running these proceedings in the AAT has been and continues to be a massive and resource demanding undertaking.
This is a "one off" exercise to save your airport and your business – an opportunity that will not present itself again.
It is now the time for your focus, for your action, for you to play your part, and to help with the heavy lifting others have shouldered to “get us all over the line”.
To prosecute the trial for the Chamber, we are represented by our Solicitor and Barrister, both of whom have aviation qualifications and are familiar with Archerfield Airport. In addition to this we also have litigation support personnel (who are also pilots) and iconic expert witnesses donating their professional time.
Our solicitor costs $2000 per trial day and Barrister $4,000 per trial and preparation day.
We request each and every member to sponsor either the solicitor or the Barrister or both for one or more days. For most aviation businesses this is fully tax deductible.
You do not need to be a member of the Chamber to sponsor. The Chamber is an approved organisation to receive public donations for this purpose under the Collections Act 1966 (Qld). Donations can be made with anonymity.
You may chose the day (or days) that you want to sponsor. A list of the days and slots requiring sponsorship will soon be up on the Chambers Website and kept updated . (Note no names will appear thereon – unless you specifically request same) .
The AAT is open to the public and (unless you are a witness) you can attend to see what you are getting for your sponsorship day.
Where do I send my sponsorship funds?
The Chamber’s Bank Account Details for the “AAT Case Fighting Fund” are as follows:
Account Name: Archerfield Airport Chamber of Commerce Inc.
Bank of Queensland – Springwood
BSB No: 124057
Account No:20220853
Don’t have the cash? – we can accept your credit card – donate on-line by clicking here and then selecting the 'Donate' button.
Know others that want to Help?
Help in sponsorship and extra litigation support and special project staff are needed.
Email this to your friend.
Lindsay Snell
President
Archerfield Airport Chamber of Commerce Inc
Archerfield Airport Chamber of Commerce Inc
GPO Box 2511
Brisbane Qld 4001
Australia
Website:- www.aacci.org.au
AAT Proceedings
As you should be aware by now your Chamber (AACCI) has had proceedings in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) since August 2012. Our action is challenging ex-Minister Anthony Albanese's disastrous decision in May 2012 to approve the 2011-2031 Archerfield Airport Master Plan.
If permitted to stand unchallenged by your Chamber, the Minister’s approval would clear the way for Archerfield Airport Corporation (AAC) to proceed with an irreversible and permanent downgrading of the critical aviation infrastructure that exists at Archerfield Airport. This includes the unacceptable loss of the 04/22 runway complex, the Archerfield Control Tower, the fuel farms and above all would obliterate many aviation businesses without compensation.
This is solely an industrial land grab by AAC without appropriate regard to the consequences to and requirements of the aviation users (that's YOU!) and also the overall public interest both now and into the future.
The Chamber's action is now set down for trial commencing from the 18th November to 26th November 2014 with an airport site visit by the AAT Deputy President Hack on the 17th November 2014.
Up to twenty-seven (27) witnesses, (most of whom have made extensive written statements) will be appearing for the Chamber - including our expert witnesses. If you are a witness you will soon be receiving a summons to appear before the AAT. Although this will be for the entire period from and including the 18th November, the exact day or days you will be required will be confirmed closer to the time. Persons pre-approved by the AAT will be able to provide evidence by phone or video link.
All members and their supporters are welcome to attend the hearing but everyone who receives a summons cannot be present in the hearing room until after they have given their evidence as a witness. If you attend the AAT before you are called, objections could be raised against your evidence including the possibly of totally invalidating your evidence – so please exercise extreme care about this.
What will be achieved?
The AAT has stated they are not running a royal commission. That said, the main issues, properly prosecuted by expert legal counsel will result in the 2011-2031 Master Plan being rejected by the AAT and possibly replaced by the Chamber’s alternative master plan (which was ratified by the Chamber in General Meeting) being approved by the AAT to then become the 2011-2031 Master Plan.
This decision will not only help rescue Archerfield Airport from unscrupulous land development, but will help every other secondary airport and the ALOP airports throughout Australia.
It is extremely important to understand that this is not just an action for the benefit of Archerfield Airport alone.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) and the Department of Infrastructure and Transport clearly do not know their own rules. Both Government Departments have been acting merely as a post office and have not done their job.
There will be significant ramifications for the Minister and section heads of these departments from our proceedings as the spotlight is now turned on to what they have done.
Running these proceedings in the AAT has been and continues to be a massive and resource demanding undertaking.
This is a "one off" exercise to save your airport and your business – an opportunity that will not present itself again.
It is now the time for your focus, for your action, for you to play your part, and to help with the heavy lifting others have shouldered to “get us all over the line”.
To prosecute the trial for the Chamber, we are represented by our Solicitor and Barrister, both of whom have aviation qualifications and are familiar with Archerfield Airport. In addition to this we also have litigation support personnel (who are also pilots) and iconic expert witnesses donating their professional time.
Our solicitor costs $2000 per trial day and Barrister $4,000 per trial and preparation day.
We request each and every member to sponsor either the solicitor or the Barrister or both for one or more days. For most aviation businesses this is fully tax deductible.
You do not need to be a member of the Chamber to sponsor. The Chamber is an approved organisation to receive public donations for this purpose under the Collections Act 1966 (Qld). Donations can be made with anonymity.
You may chose the day (or days) that you want to sponsor. A list of the days and slots requiring sponsorship will soon be up on the Chambers Website and kept updated . (Note no names will appear thereon – unless you specifically request same) .
The AAT is open to the public and (unless you are a witness) you can attend to see what you are getting for your sponsorship day.
Where do I send my sponsorship funds?
The Chamber’s Bank Account Details for the “AAT Case Fighting Fund” are as follows:
Account Name: Archerfield Airport Chamber of Commerce Inc.
Bank of Queensland – Springwood
BSB No: 124057
Account No:20220853
Don’t have the cash? – we can accept your credit card – donate on-line by clicking here and then selecting the 'Donate' button.
Know others that want to Help?
Help in sponsorship and extra litigation support and special project staff are needed.
Email this to your friend.
Lindsay Snell
President
Archerfield Airport Chamber of Commerce Inc
Archerfield Airport Chamber of Commerce Inc
GPO Box 2511
Brisbane Qld 4001
Australia
Website:- www.aacci.org.au