About time - Air Services
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: dans un cercle dont le centre est eveywhere et circumfernce n'est nulle part
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The NBN call from Abbott was for a cost benefit analysis, not a business case. However I can see the Conroy idea in a business case, that if you get higher speeds you can charge more for the data quicker.
The matter of local airport ownership was a product of ALP thinking which, I believe, Dick was forced to implement. I agree there is no case for recycling the assets no matter who is running the show. I'll study your links.
I have an idea something called "the Amsterdam or Dutch syndrome" is the end product of inflated current prices.
I like the way you think.
The matter of local airport ownership was a product of ALP thinking which, I believe, Dick was forced to implement. I agree there is no case for recycling the assets no matter who is running the show. I'll study your links.
I have an idea something called "the Amsterdam or Dutch syndrome" is the end product of inflated current prices.
I like the way you think.
Thread Starter
Then what is your full name, residential and mailing address, phone number and ABN? Afterall, if you reckon such data should be freely available, you won't have any issue disclosing it here on Prune, will you?
On what data do you claim it is not an issue for GA operators? Or is this just one persons opinion?
On what data do you claim it is not an issue for GA operators? Or is this just one persons opinion?
In terms of "one persons opinion," mine has been in there for the last 13 years perhaps and nobody has skimmed my bank accounts and trust funds. The register is a great way to get in touch with commercial operators.
If you don't want private details made available, simply register in a company name like everyone else that has done the same. At least airport operators have somewhere to send a bill to.
I heard that the RAA register recently was made available to the ATO and you should have heard the screams as those that were trying to illegally hide assets from the ATO, Centrelink and other government departments were outed.
Just because there aren't any complaints doesn't make it alright and I'm sure I've read commentary before about the public availability of the register, and the resistance to opening the RAAus database to the public.
In terms of "one persons opinion," mine has been in there for the last 13 years perhaps and nobody has skimmed my bank accounts and trust funds. The register is a great way to get in touch with commercial operators.
I don't think that was what was envisaged when the decision to publicise the database was made.
If you don't want private details made available, simply register in a company name like everyone else that has done the same. At least airport operators have somewhere to send a bill to.
As for complaints, perhaps you would care to explain why it is NSW has legislation explicitly preventing private carparks from accessing the vehicle registration database if there is "no issue"?
Thread Starter
As for complaints, perhaps you would care to explain why it is NSW has legislation explicitly preventing private carparks from accessing the vehicle registration database if there is "no issue"?
Aircraft are registered federally so state law is irrelevant.
How about this...... has having your aircraft details publically avaialble caused you grief or harm and in what way has this occurred?
And let's face it, there aren't going to be that many bills so this person can be usefully employed in other admin roles too.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: melbourne
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ATC services for nothing in Metro Class D? Closer to the truth than you think. How much do you think it costs to provide JUST ATC services at Bankstown or Moorabbin? I would suggest in the vicinity of 3-4 $million apiece! This includes wages, rec leave, LSL, sick leave & super. Then there's costs of training, tower maintenance etc.,..... and so the costs mount up. Av charges for these places are $14.70 x deemed MTOW (or per tonne). Some companies pay an annual fixed rate but the revenue received does not cover costs. GA is heavily crossed subsidised!
And, No, transiting aircraft are not charged a fee. There is no provision on
current ATC movement strips or traffic sheets to include transiting aircraft for the purpose of Avcharges.
And, No, transiting aircraft are not charged a fee. There is no provision on
current ATC movement strips or traffic sheets to include transiting aircraft for the purpose of Avcharges.
5 in 50..
Could you scan and post here a bill you have received for a transit of D? Redacting of course any personal info, but proof that it is on Airservices letterhead.
Could you scan and post here a bill you have received for a transit of D? Redacting of course any personal info, but proof that it is on Airservices letterhead.
Thread Starter
Oh dear, there has been a development 
RAA have just voted to NOT act as an agent on behalf of members presumably due to overheads, so will cease to pass on invoices. They will be encouraging members to make their details available to Avdata.
This will be an interesting ride !
RAA have just voted to NOT act as an agent on behalf of members presumably due to overheads, so will cease to pass on invoices. They will be encouraging members to make their details available to Avdata.
This will be an interesting ride !
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Victoria
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Oh dear, there has been a development
RAA have just voted to NOT act as an agent on behalf of members presumably due to overheads, so will cease to pass on invoices. They will be encouraging members to make their details available to Avdata.
This will be an interesting ride !
RAA have just voted to NOT act as an agent on behalf of members presumably due to overheads, so will cease to pass on invoices. They will be encouraging members to make their details available to Avdata.
This will be an interesting ride !
And RAAus appears far more compliant with the Privacy Act than is CASA. It's hard to see how CASA can argue that putting my personal information on a publicly available website is a purpose associated with the purpose for which the information is lawfully collected and stored.
I also venture to suggest that cries of righteous indignation about RAAus aircraft not contributing to ASA for services are a bit hollow because the general rule is that RAAus certificate holders can't enter controlled airspace (need a PPL minimum, transponder, radio, TSO altimeter, etc). Those that meet all the requirements and use CTA are few and far between. Those that have managed to avoid aerodrome charges...good luck to them.
I'm not impressed with the Avdata set up. Received an account for 3 days parking at Moorabbin but no arrival/departure. Hadn't been there for more than 5 years!
Kaz
Thread Starter
There are actually plenty of Raaus aircraft incurring ASA fees given the increasing number of Raaus schools running in Class D, such as Moorabbin and Bankstown.
If you are using airports and the operators are not able to invoice you for it then something has to give as you are depriving them of income whilst utilizing their product or services. It would be like going to a gym and not paying or using a swimming pool by walking in unannounced. I suspect Avdata would do what car-epark operators do in Victoria and obtain a court order to retrieve the owner's details once they are ready to do an invoicing run.
If you are using airports and the operators are not able to invoice you for it then something has to give as you are depriving them of income whilst utilizing their product or services. It would be like going to a gym and not paying or using a swimming pool by walking in unannounced. I suspect Avdata would do what car-epark operators do in Victoria and obtain a court order to retrieve the owner's details once they are ready to do an invoicing run.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sydney
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"It's hard to see how CASA can argue that putting my personal information on a publicly available website is a purpose associated with the purpose for which the information is lawfully collected and stored."
Hmm?? so that's why Clive has his aircraft on foreign registers.
Hmm?? so that's why Clive has his aircraft on foreign registers.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Goolwa
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Kaz3g
So what about private airfields that receive no government or council funding? What should they do? Close because nobody wants to pay? Then everyone will complain about "all the airports closing!". Most (if no all) privately owned airfields have "PPR" (Prior Permission Required) yet very few actually obtain this permission. So now an RA-Aus aircraft can fly in (usually without permission) and do a couple of touch-and-goes then fly off and the airfield cannot charge them? Well the obvious solution is to ban all RA-Aus aircraft that are not based at the airfield and any that do come in without permission give their details to CASA and the police for landing on private property and trespassing.
Those that have managed to avoid aerodrome charges...good luck to them.
Thread Starter
Spot on Dexta, it's a gap that needs filling.
Surprised to hear those words from a lawyer.
Quite obviously the donation box system isn't working so they have to rely on ATC and radio recordings and human error is inevitable.
There used to be a donation box at Sunbury / Penfield airfield placed by old Doc. I recall one of the instructors telling me that he had never seen anyone make a donation in many years.
Those that have managed to avoid aerodrome charges...good luck to them.
I'm not impressed with the Avdata set up. Received an account for 3 days parking at Moorabbin but no arrival/departure. Hadn't been there for more than 5 years!
There used to be a donation box at Sunbury / Penfield airfield placed by old Doc. I recall one of the instructors telling me that he had never seen anyone make a donation in many years.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sydney
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ANCPER,
Thanks for your post, and spot on
Wikipedia.
"In economics (see public choice theory), rent-seeking is spending wealth on political lobbying to increase one's share of existing wealth without creating wealth. The effects of rent-seeking are reduced economic efficiency through poor allocation of resources, reduced wealth creation, lost government revenue, increased income inequality,[1] and national decline.
Current studies of rent-seeking focus on the manipulation of regulatory agencies to gain monopolistic advantages in the market while imposing disadvantages on competitors. The term itself derives, however, from the far older practice of gaining a portion of production through ownership or control of land".
About sums up what is happening and has happened in Australia.
Thanks for your post, and spot on
Wikipedia.
"In economics (see public choice theory), rent-seeking is spending wealth on political lobbying to increase one's share of existing wealth without creating wealth. The effects of rent-seeking are reduced economic efficiency through poor allocation of resources, reduced wealth creation, lost government revenue, increased income inequality,[1] and national decline.
Current studies of rent-seeking focus on the manipulation of regulatory agencies to gain monopolistic advantages in the market while imposing disadvantages on competitors. The term itself derives, however, from the far older practice of gaining a portion of production through ownership or control of land".
About sums up what is happening and has happened in Australia.
Thread Starter
Hi Dick, What are you asking sorry when you refer to CASA and a date? I don't quite follow.
Are you referring to re-registering an RA-Aus registered factory built aircraft with CASA?
Are you referring to re-registering an RA-Aus registered factory built aircraft with CASA?
Why on earth GA and the taxpayer or ratepayer should be subsidising RAAus so they get free use of infrastructure that everyone else has to pay for is pretty unfair.
Saying it is about "privacy" sounds like a way of wriggling out of paying their share.
A while ago when trying to trace the owner of a RAAUs aircraft who had caused havok I was told that the database was kept secret so that ex-wives couldn't get their hands on the aircraft asset in any kind of settlement. I found that pretty sickening.
Saying it is about "privacy" sounds like a way of wriggling out of paying their share.
A while ago when trying to trace the owner of a RAAUs aircraft who had caused havok I was told that the database was kept secret so that ex-wives couldn't get their hands on the aircraft asset in any kind of settlement. I found that pretty sickening.
Thread Starter
As I said in an earlier post their privacy protocols didn't stop the ATO.
Many an owner are hiding their prized assets from the ATO by being RA-Aus registered it has been alleged.
Many an owner are hiding their prized assets from the ATO by being RA-Aus registered it has been alleged.
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Those that have managed to avoid aerodrome charges...good luck to them.
Surprised to hear those words from a lawyer.
Kaz