Medical Cert Issues
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My advice, once you hit the geriatric age, CAsA considers that is around 55,
go do a premedical medical. Your DAME should be able to give the result figures that get you screwed under the CAsA point system.
You doctor as apposed to DAME can then proscribe the right chemicals to ensure your blood results are those of a sixteen year old athlete and bob's your uncle.
The questionnaire ??? "Lie through your teeth" but it wasn't me said that!!
go do a premedical medical. Your DAME should be able to give the result figures that get you screwed under the CAsA point system.
You doctor as apposed to DAME can then proscribe the right chemicals to ensure your blood results are those of a sixteen year old athlete and bob's your uncle.
The questionnaire ??? "Lie through your teeth" but it wasn't me said that!!
Some advice with hindsight
Hi guys.....you may remember me from such posts as http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...e-problem.html
To answer and help I Con out, here are the results of what happened to me.
I wont go over the whole lot (see above link), but basically I answered the FAST test too honestly and scored a 3........letter from CASA requesting bloods and liver function etc in order to process my Class 1.
Blood tests were completed stat, and forwarded to the GP who did my medical. Unbeknowst to me the GP's office did not forward the results to CASA........so 4 weeks later and getting very close to the 2 month medical stamp extension cut off I phone the av med section only to learn that they never received the results. If I remember correctly that was a Friday, so I quickly scanned and emailed the results to Canberra. Phoned back Monday only to learn that the DAME in charge of checking these things only works for CASA on Tues and Thurs as he has a private practise on the other days - I couldn't believe it?? Here we are paying as a collective $$$$ for our medicals to be assessed and processed and yet they don't employ a fulltime DAME.
Anyway long story short, my test results were fine and full Class 1 issued.
The whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth, and made me realize that many (most) pilots aren't telling the DAME's the truth out of fear of losing their medicals (livelihood) for an extended period, or perhaps straight away. Its certainly not ideal but we (Pilots) are again having to modify our behavior to cater for an imperfect system.
Good luck I Con.......all I can say is that it has not come up again on my further 2 medicals.
Cheers
DM
To answer and help I Con out, here are the results of what happened to me.
I wont go over the whole lot (see above link), but basically I answered the FAST test too honestly and scored a 3........letter from CASA requesting bloods and liver function etc in order to process my Class 1.
Blood tests were completed stat, and forwarded to the GP who did my medical. Unbeknowst to me the GP's office did not forward the results to CASA........so 4 weeks later and getting very close to the 2 month medical stamp extension cut off I phone the av med section only to learn that they never received the results. If I remember correctly that was a Friday, so I quickly scanned and emailed the results to Canberra. Phoned back Monday only to learn that the DAME in charge of checking these things only works for CASA on Tues and Thurs as he has a private practise on the other days - I couldn't believe it?? Here we are paying as a collective $$$$ for our medicals to be assessed and processed and yet they don't employ a fulltime DAME.
Anyway long story short, my test results were fine and full Class 1 issued.
The whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth, and made me realize that many (most) pilots aren't telling the DAME's the truth out of fear of losing their medicals (livelihood) for an extended period, or perhaps straight away. Its certainly not ideal but we (Pilots) are again having to modify our behavior to cater for an imperfect system.
Good luck I Con.......all I can say is that it has not come up again on my further 2 medicals.
Cheers
DM
Another big issue with medicals is the use of medications such as antidepressants. I know for a fact that there are many pilots taking antidepressant medications but not declaring this on their medical form in fear of having a permanent mark against their name which could haunt them in many years to come.
CASA would clearly prefer to have pilots with mental health issues like depression go undiagnosed and untreated rather than have pilots who are seeking the appropriate treatment for their illness.
Lets just hope that the day that CASA automatically gets access to your medical records never comes...
CASA would clearly prefer to have pilots with mental health issues like depression go undiagnosed and untreated rather than have pilots who are seeking the appropriate treatment for their illness.
Lets just hope that the day that CASA automatically gets access to your medical records never comes...
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Dogman, do you mind if ask what your blood test results were? You can pm if you like.
My GGT is at 56 with slight elevations in some other areas of the liver function test.
My GGT is at 56 with slight elevations in some other areas of the liver function test.
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I'm on my iPad at the moment but see if this works
http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD:
c=PC_101960
and
http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD:c=PC_101965
Or go to casa.gov.au and enter "dame handbook" into the search there. When you find the dame handbook it's all in chapter 12.
http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD:
c=PC_101960and
http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD:
c=PC_101965Or go to casa.gov.au and enter "dame handbook" into the search there. When you find the dame handbook it's all in chapter 12.
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From the above link:
Previous Section |
12.6.1
The process involved and the required procedure for a DAME to follow for the issue a Class 2 medical certificate is sequentially as follows:
an applicant for a Class 2 medical certificate (the applicant) must first submit a request to CASA's Aviation Medicine Section;
CASA's Aviation Medicine Section will provide a completed 'Medical Background Form' or 'Q01 letter' to the applicant's nominated DAME;
the DAME must review the completed Medical Background Form;
the DAME must obtain, and record, the applicant's agreement to the use of an electronic document under the DAME's electronic signature as the means of issuing the Class 2 medical certificate (if any certificate is issued) and must provide the applicant with a hardcopy also.
the DAME must conduct a medical examination of the applicant.
if an excluded medical condition (see section 12.3 Excluded medical conditions and prior endorsements) is apparent or disclosed, the DAME must not issue a Class 2 medical certificate and must refer the applicant to CASA;
if the DAME's assessment following the medical examination is consistent with the DAME Clinical Guidelines (see section 12.5 DAME Clinical Practice Guidelines), the DAME must issue a Class 2 medical certificate provided:
all necessary investigations and information required have been reviewed: and
the DAME is satisfied that the assessment supports the issue of the Class 2 medical certificate; and
there is no countervailing reason under the DAME delegation, the relevant regulations or this Chapter 12 why a Class 2 medical certificate should not be issued;
if the DAME's assessment following the medical examination is inconsistent with the DAME Guidelines, the DAME must:
not issue a Class 2 medical certificate; and
refer the applicant to CASA, with an opinion concerning a departure from the Guidelines; and
ensure that the applicant is informed that the DAME's assessment is inconsistent with the DAME Guidelines and that the applicant must be referred to CASA for assessment.
if, following an applicant's medical examination, the DAME:
assesses that a Class 2 medical certificate should not be issued; or
holds a reasonable doubt about the applicant's suitability to be issued with a Class 2 medical certificate; then the DAME must do the following;
not issue a medical certificate;
refer the applicant to CASA for medical assessment;
inform CASA in writing of the DAME's reasons for not issuing the certificate;
ensure that the applicant is informed of the DAME's inclination or doubt, and that his or her application must be referred to CASA for assessment.
12.6.1
The process involved and the required procedure for a DAME to follow for the issue a Class 2 medical certificate is sequentially as follows:
an applicant for a Class 2 medical certificate (the applicant) must first submit a request to CASA's Aviation Medicine Section;
CASA's Aviation Medicine Section will provide a completed 'Medical Background Form' or 'Q01 letter' to the applicant's nominated DAME;
the DAME must review the completed Medical Background Form;
the DAME must obtain, and record, the applicant's agreement to the use of an electronic document under the DAME's electronic signature as the means of issuing the Class 2 medical certificate (if any certificate is issued) and must provide the applicant with a hardcopy also.
the DAME must conduct a medical examination of the applicant.
if an excluded medical condition (see section 12.3 Excluded medical conditions and prior endorsements) is apparent or disclosed, the DAME must not issue a Class 2 medical certificate and must refer the applicant to CASA;
if the DAME's assessment following the medical examination is consistent with the DAME Clinical Guidelines (see section 12.5 DAME Clinical Practice Guidelines), the DAME must issue a Class 2 medical certificate provided:
all necessary investigations and information required have been reviewed: and
the DAME is satisfied that the assessment supports the issue of the Class 2 medical certificate; and
there is no countervailing reason under the DAME delegation, the relevant regulations or this Chapter 12 why a Class 2 medical certificate should not be issued;
if the DAME's assessment following the medical examination is inconsistent with the DAME Guidelines, the DAME must:
not issue a Class 2 medical certificate; and
refer the applicant to CASA, with an opinion concerning a departure from the Guidelines; and
ensure that the applicant is informed that the DAME's assessment is inconsistent with the DAME Guidelines and that the applicant must be referred to CASA for assessment.
if, following an applicant's medical examination, the DAME:
assesses that a Class 2 medical certificate should not be issued; or
holds a reasonable doubt about the applicant's suitability to be issued with a Class 2 medical certificate; then the DAME must do the following;
not issue a medical certificate;
refer the applicant to CASA for medical assessment;
inform CASA in writing of the DAME's reasons for not issuing the certificate;
ensure that the applicant is informed of the DAME's inclination or doubt, and that his or her application must be referred to CASA for assessment.
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Medical Certificates
Despite my age I was very disappointed that CASA did not accept the result of my Class 2 Medical examination by the DAME. I have to accept that CASA is the final arbiter. Reading some of the posts on this thread makes me wonder "How would those who advocate lying about a condition they believe could lead to losing their medical feel if one of their peers was responsible for the death of one of their family members, as a result of not being truthful"?
It is easy to be a "rebel" on an anonymous forum. I would hope that the situation might be different in real life.
It is easy to be a "rebel" on an anonymous forum. I would hope that the situation might be different in real life.
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Well seeing as this is apparently about alcohol and we're all confessing......my name's Stkybeke and I'm an alcoholic however I'm now clean. It's been 18 minutes since my last drink !!!
Interesting discussion.
I am 73, have one or two drinks at the end of every day and declared this to my DAME. I have had no issues with my Class 2 medical. There must be a difference somewhere. Maybe it s not the drinking?.
I am 73, have one or two drinks at the end of every day and declared this to my DAME. I have had no issues with my Class 2 medical. There must be a difference somewhere. Maybe it s not the drinking?.
Reading some of the posts on this thread makes me wonder "How would those who advocate lying about a condition they believe could lead to losing their medical feel if one of their peers was responsible for the death of one of their family members, as a result of not being truthful"?
I know which I think is the more sensible (and safer) option.
Old Fella: In fact, you don't have to "accept" CASA is the "final arbiter". The current system is the result of a choice. A different choice could be made.
The rules could just set the objective standards and expert medical practitioners and specialists could be left to make the decision on whether the candidate meets the standard.
Even under the current system, the AAT can change CASA's decision and, in the case of medical certification in particular, a far greater proportion of CASA's decisions are being changed by the AAT than was the case e.g. a decade ago.
The recent change in approach to colour vision deficiencies demonstrates to me that the increasingly intrusive and disruptive activities of CASA Avmed are not based on any credible data. All I see is some relevance-deprived zealots on a medical crusade, wrapped in the flag of 'aviation safety', doing more damage than good.
The rules could just set the objective standards and expert medical practitioners and specialists could be left to make the decision on whether the candidate meets the standard.
Even under the current system, the AAT can change CASA's decision and, in the case of medical certification in particular, a far greater proportion of CASA's decisions are being changed by the AAT than was the case e.g. a decade ago.
The recent change in approach to colour vision deficiencies demonstrates to me that the increasingly intrusive and disruptive activities of CASA Avmed are not based on any credible data. All I see is some relevance-deprived zealots on a medical crusade, wrapped in the flag of 'aviation safety', doing more damage than good.
"How would those who advocate lying about a condition they believe could lead to losing their medical feel if one of their peers was responsible for the death of one of their family members, as a result of not being truthful"?
I have seen time and time again medicals knocked back for minor reasons despite the DAME saying no problems. AVMED, refusing to believe the doctor then say it is a problem and send the applicant on a specialist runaround. The specialist then concurs with the doctors opinion and the medical is granted.
I have recently watched a class 2 applicant spend, literally thousands of dollars on specialists to prove what his doctor clearly stated was OK in the first place. Some private pilots don't have these funds. There is no guarantee it won't all happen again when this applicant needs a renewal.
Get off your high horse and realise the system is faulty. AVMED are doctors who don't see patients and don't trust other doctors.
I don't advocate lying for anything and I am fortunate enough to pass all my medicals easily. Some folk are worse off than me but they aren't going to drop dead in the next few years either.
Drink more than a few drinks = liver function test
Smoke one ciggy in the last year = lung function test
Admit ever trying cannabis even 20 + years ago = ongoing drug testing
Take any med for any long term condition = visiting a specialist
Admit a single driving breath test fail = liver function test
All this when the DAME can identify 99% of the time whether there is a problem or not.
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Despite my age I was very disappointed that CASA did not accept the result of my Class 2 Medical examination by the DAME. I have to accept that CASA is the final arbiter. Reading some of the posts on this thread makes me wonder "How would those who advocate lying about a condition they believe could lead to losing their medical feel if one of their peers was responsible for the death of one of their family members, as a result of not being truthful"?
It is easy to be a "rebel" on an anonymous forum. I would hope that the situation might be different in real life.
It is easy to be a "rebel" on an anonymous forum. I would hope that the situation might be different in real life.
An innocent response can trigger the sort of over reaction that the CASA medical branch is increasingly becoming well known for.
Avmed are a law unto themselves and have been known to disregard leading SPECIALIST advice regarding pilot health risks.
Now I am in the situation of having to play my cards just right to prove (read, satisfy) to CASA that I do not have an alcohol abuse problem (something any DAME would be able to determine if required, with a couple of visits and urine or blood tests, and without the heart ache). If I stuff this up its going to be months of aggravation dealing with CASA, why would anyone want to do that if it could be avoided by one single word, NO instead of YES, especially those who make a living from flying.
So, as Creampuff said, I beleive CASA are "...doing more damage than good..."
Last edited by I_Con; 21st Sep 2014 at 09:43. Reason: Spolling and is grammar
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Smoke one ciggy in the last year = lung function test
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You know what, I would love nothing more than if there was a CASA doctor or approved representative that I could sit down with and discuss my test results and get this sorted in a 20 minute appointment, if only they existed right.
Now how do I express sarcasm on an internet forum? Maybe this emoticon will do it
Now how do I express sarcasm on an internet forum? Maybe this emoticon will do it
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once didn't read the form the doctor had given me and gave a weekly total instead of the daily one which it requested.
That lead to a very confused conversation for a few mins. Until my error was discovered.
It was agreed though that a daily number was a bit silly as it really doesn't work if you don't drink when working the next day as a pro pilot.
That lead to a very confused conversation for a few mins. Until my error was discovered.
It was agreed though that a daily number was a bit silly as it really doesn't work if you don't drink when working the next day as a pro pilot.