The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Airways clearance question

Old 15th Aug 2014, 01:34
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Victoria Australia
Posts: 4
Airways clearance question

Hey guys. Newish PPL holder here. Just a quick question about requesting airways clearance.
Say I was departing a CTAF underneath the class C airspace steps and my flight plan was to climb up into the class C airspace and transit through it. When do/can I contact centre for airways clearance? Can I do it on the ground at the CTAF?
For example there are numerous CTAFs under the class C steps around Melbourne where this would occur. What is the normal process?

Thanks in advance!
sheldo86 is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 03:13
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Qld troppo
Posts: 3,471
Yes, you can do it on the ground if you have good comms or airborne on departure. Specific procedures may vary - eg you may get a code when you call Centre while still on the ground and be directed to call Appr airborne for the clearance. If in doubt call Centre and ask them! Generally facilitated if you have a plan in the system - expect a short delay while they put some details in the system for you. If you have a plan in the system and ADSB, they will probably be anticipating your call!

Dr

Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 15th Aug 2014 at 03:24.
ForkTailedDrKiller is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 03:23
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: On the equator
Posts: 1,295
If you're operating VFR, I would proceed OCTA until approaching the next CTA boundary and request airways clearance prior to reaching the boundary. That way, if you're told to remain outside CTA for clearance, you can then do a few orbits at your present position.

If operating IFR and you need to get to your lowest safe on departure and that's in CTA, then I'd contact them on the ground for clearance.
training wheels is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 03:32
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 54
Hi Sheldo86

Where I work, It'd be rare that you get a clearance into class 'C' whilst still taxying. You'd be most likely to receive the clearance once airborne and identified.

If you planned IFR the controller should already be aware, through your flight plan, that you'll be requesting a clearance if your planned level has you transiting through CTA.

If planned VFR, it'll be once you are airborne and identified. Give the controller as much notice as possible, so hopefully you'd be able to avoid any delays whilst a flight plan is found/created.

Cheers
TD80

Last edited by tyler_durden_80; 15th Aug 2014 at 03:34. Reason: I write good England
tyler_durden_80 is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 03:45
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 76
Melbourne Centre, ABC, Cessna 172, taxiing location, to destination, request code

ABC, squawk 1743, contact me airbourne for clearance

1743, ABC

ABC, airbourne location, passing altitude, climbing altitude, request clearance

ABC, you are identified, remain OCTA, contact approach on 123.45 for clearance

OCTA, 123.45, ABC

Melbourne approach, ABC, request clearance

...
(variations are inevitable based on locations)
5-in-50 is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 06:21
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Victoria Australia
Posts: 4
Thanks guys.
Yeah, I should have mentioned, I meant for VFR flight.
So generally speaking, contact ATC once airborne for clearance?
But I can contact them whilst taxiing but they may not give me clearance until airborne?


Some of these CTAFs under the steps at Melbourne are quite tight, eg terrain 500 feet below and class C airspace 500 feet above.


Cheers,
Sheldon
sheldo86 is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 07:18
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,283
Sheldon, you WON'T get a VFR clearance on the ground into Class C airspace pretty much anywhere in Australia. In the situation you mention I would give the Melbourne traffic manager a call (number in ERSA) tell him/her that you have a VFR flight plan in the system, you're getting airborne shortly and request the code. Setting it on your transponder prior to airborne will speed up the identification process (you WON'T get a clearance til you're identified).

And W'rTF you do, don't bust airspace til you've got the clearance
Jack Ranga is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 07:39
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Qld troppo
Posts: 3,471
Sheldon, you WON'T get a VFR clearance on the ground into Class C airspace pretty much anywhere in Australia.
Jack, I don't think you have thought that statement through carefully, have you?

I have lost count of the number of times I have requested and received a clearance VFR into Class C while on the ground!

Dr
ForkTailedDrKiller is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 07:46
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,179
But Jack means in the last 20 years Dr
Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 08:06
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Qld troppo
Posts: 3,471
But Jack means in the last 20 years Dr
Watch it Squarky or I'll out ya!
ForkTailedDrKiller is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 08:54
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: back to the land of small pay and big bills
Age: 45
Posts: 1,045
Do what you want..ATC is there to help you. Your airways fees are paying their wages..don't take no for an answer..it's not that busy in Aus..tell them to grow a pair and have a look at radar tracks in Heathrow or LAX
mattyj is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 08:55
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,283
Let me re-phrase that, you won't get it on the ground south of the Murray. You WON'T get it on the ground at any of the Airports that ring Melbourne that are underneath the Class C steps. It won't happen, it would have to be an exceptional circumstance (like the FTDK was visiting Victoria & they know he's an awesome pilot )

If you are at a Class D Tower i.e. Albury, you will get your clearance into C because the Class D Tower owns Class C steps.

If you have any questions, PM me
Jack Ranga is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 08:58
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,283
And you WILL get the occasional NO. Bitch & moan on the airwaves as much as you like, it won't change anything except gain you a reputation that may see more no's
Jack Ranga is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 09:23
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Qld troppo
Posts: 3,471
Let me re-phrase that, you won't get it on the ground south of the Murray. You WON'T get it on the ground at any of the Airports that ring Melbourne that are underneath the Class C steps.
I suspect that if you are a VFR flight taxying at Essendon and you ask for a clearance, you'll get your clearance into Class C while still on the ground!

Only been there a couple of times, but yes, my reputation had preceded me - boys in the tower looked after me well!

Dr
ForkTailedDrKiller is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 09:45
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 134
Require expedited clearance due Sierra Hotel Mike Bravo Oscar.
FokkerInYour12 is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 10:29
  #16 (permalink)  
When you live....
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: 0.0221 DME Keyboard
Posts: 909
eg terrain 500 feet below and class C airspace 500 feet above.
Sheldo, you don't have to be 500' below C, the airspace boundary level is class G and anything in C will be kept 1000' above you.

I should know.....

UTR.
UnderneathTheRadar is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 10:44
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,283
Doc, I just said as much! Class D tower. I think sheldo is more talking about departing from CTAF's
Jack Ranga is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 10:45
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne
Age: 67
Posts: 775
Mattyj, VFR aircraft don't pay any airways fees in Australia.
fujii is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 11:33
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... Still!
Posts: 3,315
Don't they teach this stuff in the syllabus anymore?
Capt Fathom is online now  
Old 15th Aug 2014, 12:13
  #20 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Victoria Australia
Posts: 4
Yeah, they do teach obtaining clearance.
To be a bit more clear, my question is: when you depart from a CTAF that is under the steps and you are climbing out into class C and you really only have a matter of minutes before you enter into class C because the airfield is high. (Eg YRID which is 1150ft elevation and class C is 2000ft, so only 850 ft above you), is it possible to get airways clearance before you take-off whilst on the ground at the CTAF.


If you train at a class D or a CTAF in the middle of class G then most new PPL holders will never have had to do this.
sheldo86 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.