Recreation Pilot Licence with Navigation Endorsement

[mtoolis]

GDay,

I have a GFPT from years ago with PPL theory and I'm keen to upgrade to the PPL without the controlled airspace endorsement.

I've learn that a new RPL comes in to effect on September 1st and I will be able to directly swap my GFPT for the RPL.

I've also learnt that I can do a NAVIGATION ENDORSEMENT to add to the RPL which will give all (more or less) the privileges of the current PPL without controlled airspace. This sounds like a good deal.

My question is: How do I actually get the Navigation Endorsement? I've read the requirement for hours (5 hours solo cross-country, same as PPL) but there are no details anywhere on the CASA site about written or practical examinations.

Thanks a lot if anyone has the answers.

[717tech]

You will probably have to do the RAA Navigation exam prior to getting that on the certificate.

[mtoolis]

I've done the CASA PPL theory exam though...?

[roundsounds]

All you'll need to do is talk to a flying school who understands the CASR Part 61 rules. Essentially they'll need to create a syllabus of training (including exam), have it approved by CASA and training / test you to it. I would think it would be very similar to the school's PPL syllabus, perhaps without the airspace privileges beyond those you wish to gain. The Part 61 PPL will require the candidate to meet the standards for all airspace privileges. The detail around exams and standards are in the various MOS (manual of standards) which replace the Day VFR syllabus.

[mtoolis]

I'm impressed at the lack of rigid explaination that CASA provides. The Part 61 changes roll out in two weeks and simple questions like mine don't have anything close to clear or practical answers.

I'm not convinced I would need to do a seperate RPL written exam as I have passed the PPL theory exam already.

Also, the Manual of Standarda is impressively non-specific with reapect to this question - despite its 498 pages.

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F20...2-82ff88669f16

[roundsounds]

I'm not sure what specifics you're looking for? The rules are there, it's up to the CASR Part 141/142 holder to develop a syllabus and train people to it. If you've got a valid PPLA theory credit and the school says they're happy to accept it as an equivalent evidence of required knowledge (which one would expect) you just need to complete the flight training and a test. Flying training is like any other business, the rules are there, just work within them. I wouldn't expect or want CASA to tell me how to design my syllabus or any other part of my business.

[roundsounds]

I think you've been reading the CASR not the MOS if you've been looking at the document found under the link in your previous post.
Try this:
http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD

[Aussie Bob]

I wouldn't expect or want CASA to tell me how to design my syllabus or any other part of my business.

I love an optimist

[triton140]

Originally Posted by roundsounds

All you'll need to do is talk to a flying school who understands the CASR Part 61 rules.

There's your problem!

[mtoolis]

The truth of the problem is that CASA hasn't provided workable or practical advice. The same holds true at the other end of the spectrum for people who now need to sit an ATPL flight test - despite zero details on what the test requires.... All only 19 days out from being implemented.

I'd call it institutional tardiness. Or just bog stock unorganised.

[roundsounds]

Like I've read on another post... Less Pprune and more reading CASA website called for. As for more guidance, why do you want CASA to design your business? I established a successful flying school several years ago and didn't want CASA telling me how.

[50 50]

Aaaaaaand let the thread drift begin! Quick, someone correct me on punctuation, bash CASA for a while, and complain about declining standards!

We could condense this entire site into one thread if we whinge about QANTAS as well, think of the time savings!

[5-in-50]

Please be aware, we are talking about CASA RESTRICTED pilot licences, not RAAUS RECREATIONAL pilot licences.

What I think we're looking at here:

Currently -
GFPT
RAAUS RPL with nav endo (OCTA)
PPL (OCTA)
PPL (Class D)
PPL (All CTA)

Upcoming -
RPL (restricted pilot licence, NOT RAAUS, formerly GFPT)
RAAUS RPL with nav endo (OCTA)
PPL (OCTA)
PPL (Class D)
PPL (All CTA)

Sounds like a name change only. Note, I cannot back this up with a reference presently..

[Rod Con]

I have a GFPT from years ago with PPL theory and I'm keen to upgrade to the PPL without the controlled airspace endorsement.

How many years ago? You have learnt that CASA will swap your worthless SPL for a Flight Crew Licence. But wait there is more... You dont even need a "proper" medical.

I'm impressed at the lack of rigid explaination that CASA provides. The Part 61 changes roll out in two weeks and simple questions like mine don't have anything close to clear or practical answers.

Won't CASA tell you which Cornflakes boxes have the licences in.

[Clare Prop]

Schedule 1 Part 61 Manual of Standards Directory
2/06/2014 Version 1.2 Page 13 of 60
Appendix G.8 Recreational navigation endorsement
Practical flight standards
Unit code
Unit of competency
C1
Communicating in the aviation environment
NAV
Navigate aircraft
ONTA
Operate at non-towered aerodrome
OGA:
Operate in Class G: airspace

[Squawk7700]

5 in 50 said:

Currently -
GFPT
RAAUS RPL with nav endo (OCTA)
PPL (OCTA)
PPL (Class D)
PPL (All CTA)

Upcoming -
RPL (restricted pilot licence, NOT RAAUS, formerly GFPT)
RAAUS RPL with nav endo (OCTA)
PPL (OCTA)
PPL (Class D)
PPL (All CTA)

Not quite - Let me fix that for you.

Currently -

RA-Aus:

"Pilot Certificate" with nav endo (OCTA)

GA:

GFPT
PPL (OCTA)
PPL (Class D)
PPL (All CTA)

Upcoming -

RA-Aus:

- Unchanged (Pilot Certificate)

GA:

RPL (formerly GFPT)
PPL (OCTA)
PPL (Class D)
PPL (All CTA)

[Clare Prop]

Schedule 4 Part 61 Manual of Standards Examination Standards
2/06/2014 Version 1.0 Page 5 of 11
SECTION 1 FLIGHT CREW LICENCE AND ASSOCIATED CATEGORY RATINGS
1.1 PRIVATE PILOT LICENCE (PPL)
PPL – Aeroplane Category Rating
Examination Code
Examination Subject
Pass Standard %
Time Limit Hours
PPLA
PPL – Aeroplane
70
3.5

So, if you have done the PPL exam you should be covered.

[Squawk7700]

Absolutely Clare Prop, the PPL over-rides the RPL as it is a higher class of Licence.

[Clare Prop]

It shouldn't really make any difference whether you have a GFPT or not.

All the GFPT did was give the instructor who authorised a student pilot to carry passengers have a defence against being prosecuted under CAR 5.72 and give longer times between check rides.

It is not even mentioned in the ATOM or the current PPL flight test form and doesn't give any exemptions in the PPL test.

In fact the GFPT form only complied with the current Day VFR Syllabus units very recently, so effectively was not measured against it, something I brought up with CASA a few times.

You don't have to apply for an RPL, just go straight through to PPL ie have the hours and the competencies required and pass the PPL test.

You can't "directly swap" a GFPT for an RPL as there are competencies for the RPL that were not tested at GFPT level, and you need to do a flight review.

http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dl...::pc=PC_101934
What happens if I hold a student pilot licence and have passed a GFPT?
From 1 September 2014 you will be entitled to an RPL and appropriate aircraft category and class ratings. You have until 31 August 2018 to convert your old licence to a Part 61 licence.

To apply for an RPL you will need to complete an application form (this will be available on the CASA website prior to the commencement of the new regulations). You will also need to complete a flight review for an aircraft class rating before you can fly an aircraft of that class using your RPL.

If you are transferring across to an RPL you will need to be aware of additional responsibilities including making decisions about your own flights (for example flight planning, go and no-go decisions and fuel planning), ensuring your aircraft is airworthy prior to flight and reporting airworthiness and safety issues and occurrences. If you already hold a flight radiotelephone operator licence you will be granted the flight radio endorsement under your new RPL licence.

[tecman]

OK, the expert commentary prompted me to do some more reading. I can't see how an existing GPFT, or a new RPL (at least one based on the published MOS theory components), equips a pilot to do navigation training. I understand the practical nature of the nav endorsement to the RPL but where does the candidate get the foundation navigation knowledge? Apologies if I'm missing something.