Bankstown Airport Figures an Example of Aviation Decline
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Bankstown Airport Figures an Example of Aviation Decline
For anyone who has read the Bankstown Airport Preliminary Draft Master Plan, the graph on page 62 is interesting. It shows that fixed wing movements at Bankstown Airport have gone from 300,000 per annum in 2002/03 to about 180,000 in 2012/13. The report actually states that they believe there is going to be negative growth of -10.4% in the short term but then positive growth after that “due to an improving economy”.
How anyone would know this is beyond me – it’s just dream-world. When you have a regulator that is basically hostile to general aviation and has no idea how costs affect viability and you also have the air traffic control services provider bent on removing costs from its own operation and moving them to the industry (i.e. ADS-B), you can see what happens.
I think there is doom looming in the short term because I don’t see the slightest hint from our political masters that they have any understanding that removing unnecessary costs is so important in every field and, most importantly, in aviation if you want a viable and thriving aviation industry.
I believe we could be the leaders in the world in flight training, but for that you need a regulator that is on side. I don’t see this happening in the near future.
How anyone would know this is beyond me – it’s just dream-world. When you have a regulator that is basically hostile to general aviation and has no idea how costs affect viability and you also have the air traffic control services provider bent on removing costs from its own operation and moving them to the industry (i.e. ADS-B), you can see what happens.
I think there is doom looming in the short term because I don’t see the slightest hint from our political masters that they have any understanding that removing unnecessary costs is so important in every field and, most importantly, in aviation if you want a viable and thriving aviation industry.
I believe we could be the leaders in the world in flight training, but for that you need a regulator that is on side. I don’t see this happening in the near future.
Dick every industry in Australia is labouring under the same buden of over-regulation and over-governance. The "user pays" philosophy introduced in the 1990's hasn't helped and certain high-profile individuals have done very little to unite the industry.
Singling out airline pilots and IFR pilots as the bad guys in your Airspace re-arrangement destroyed the relationship between AOPA and the industry.
You could do a lot of good by assisting the industry (I am thinking RAAA and AOPA collaboration) and being the front-man for a public awareness campaign highlighting the importance of GA as an industry, the importance of aviation infrastructure and of government support.
Unlike any other person in the Aviation industry (except perhaps Richard Discrepancy) you still have a high public profile and public support. Without public awareness and support the Aviation industry will wither and die.
If you could help create public awareness and support it will be a massive boost to the industry. I will support you in such a project. You know where I am - please call any time to discuss.
Cheers
Singling out airline pilots and IFR pilots as the bad guys in your Airspace re-arrangement destroyed the relationship between AOPA and the industry.
You could do a lot of good by assisting the industry (I am thinking RAAA and AOPA collaboration) and being the front-man for a public awareness campaign highlighting the importance of GA as an industry, the importance of aviation infrastructure and of government support.
Unlike any other person in the Aviation industry (except perhaps Richard Discrepancy) you still have a high public profile and public support. Without public awareness and support the Aviation industry will wither and die.
If you could help create public awareness and support it will be a massive boost to the industry. I will support you in such a project. You know where I am - please call any time to discuss.
Cheers
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nothing will change in the short to medium term, all this government, both sides, cares about is whats in the ground. nothing more, no support for anything else, not even manufacturing, so what hope has aviation got? unless it can create coal or iron ore.
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HLB If you could help create public awareness and support it will be a massive boost to the industry. I will support you in such a project. You know where I am - please call any time to discuss.
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Against Bankstown's 40% drop in movements between 2003 and 1012/13, Moorabbin's were:
2003 235,700
2012 235196 - only a drop of 0.2% (2013 not posted on the website yet)
The peak for Moorabbin was 396,000 in 1989, and the 21012 figures are 40% down on 1989.
The big difference in trend might provide some answers.
2003 235,700
2012 235196 - only a drop of 0.2% (2013 not posted on the website yet)
The peak for Moorabbin was 396,000 in 1989, and the 21012 figures are 40% down on 1989.
The big difference in trend might provide some answers.
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Yeah, a LOT of things happened in the late 80's/early 90's. Certain individuals, believing they knew more than anyone else, and with the power to change, decided to alter the entire landscape of aviation in Australia.
The same individuals, 20 years later, bemoan the state of the industry that they effectively destroyed, and think enough time has passed for the great unwashed to actually forget who did it.
Good call
The same individuals, 20 years later, bemoan the state of the industry that they effectively destroyed, and think enough time has passed for the great unwashed to actually forget who did it.
Good call
2003 235,700
2012 235196 - only a drop of 0.2% (2013 not posted on the website yet)
2012 235196 - only a drop of 0.2% (2013 not posted on the website yet)
2007 310K
2008 350K
2009 310K
2010 252K
The big(ger) numbers at all the previous GAAP during that time was all about foreign flying training (particularly JT)
Thread Starter
Hempy. I presume you are referring to the sell off of the airports and the formation of the CAA.
Both by the Labor Government following what was happening around the world.
By " certain individuals" I am not sure who you are referring to. Perhaps Henry Bosch ?
I was involved in staff reductions from about 7000 to 3500 and in reforms such as the first of type acceptance - all on the premise that the money spent on aviation safety had to be affordable otherwise the market ceases to exist - and that's clearly happening.
However I feel sure you are referring to me because Henry Bosch had no interest or involvement since he was no longer involved in aviation.
What would you have done if you were in my position of influence and how would have that improved the situation today? And why didn't you do it?
Both by the Labor Government following what was happening around the world.
By " certain individuals" I am not sure who you are referring to. Perhaps Henry Bosch ?
I was involved in staff reductions from about 7000 to 3500 and in reforms such as the first of type acceptance - all on the premise that the money spent on aviation safety had to be affordable otherwise the market ceases to exist - and that's clearly happening.
However I feel sure you are referring to me because Henry Bosch had no interest or involvement since he was no longer involved in aviation.
What would you have done if you were in my position of influence and how would have that improved the situation today? And why didn't you do it?
When you look at the figures for Bankstown, yes it is in serious decline.
But if you take into account the traffic at Wedderburn the figures probably aren't quiet so bad.
Notwithstanding, BAL are their own worst enemies, instead of being pro active to aviation they actively go out of their way to discourage it.
Most of us laughed when their foray into property development in the SW corner failed. I believe Star Track took notice of the disgruntled BAL tenants and pull out of the development.
But if you take into account the traffic at Wedderburn the figures probably aren't quiet so bad.
Notwithstanding, BAL are their own worst enemies, instead of being pro active to aviation they actively go out of their way to discourage it.
Most of us laughed when their foray into property development in the SW corner failed. I believe Star Track took notice of the disgruntled BAL tenants and pull out of the development.
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YSBK is a sad shadow of its former self. I remember not even being able to find a place to park, there were so many planes, now, I could do head height fly pasts and not hit anything but the fence.
Being the middle chieftain on centre, with 3 in front, and 3 behind of an afternoon as the sun went down... When was the last time that happened to anyone?!
Government and BAL are what killed BK. An airport is there to serve a community, and should be run as such. Not a cash cow for private enterprise to be strangled for all it's worth until it finally realises its true dream of being able to shut it down, and subdivide the land for a profit. You can't get AVGAS from a stone...
30 f@$&ing dollars a day just to cast a shadow on some grass?! F#%k them.
All right, going to lay down before I have an aneurism from thinking about it too much.
Being the middle chieftain on centre, with 3 in front, and 3 behind of an afternoon as the sun went down... When was the last time that happened to anyone?!
Government and BAL are what killed BK. An airport is there to serve a community, and should be run as such. Not a cash cow for private enterprise to be strangled for all it's worth until it finally realises its true dream of being able to shut it down, and subdivide the land for a profit. You can't get AVGAS from a stone...
30 f@$&ing dollars a day just to cast a shadow on some grass?! F#%k them.
All right, going to lay down before I have an aneurism from thinking about it too much.
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Can someone explain why Jet A is the same price at Bankstown as at Bourke?
Its almost cheaper to fly over to Mascot to refuel, except McBank fees screw that idea up. Aviation, all over is being used as a cash cow, not just at BK, look at all the industries that feed off it, their all doing great, not for much longer but, they've killed the host.
Its almost cheaper to fly over to Mascot to refuel, except McBank fees screw that idea up. Aviation, all over is being used as a cash cow, not just at BK, look at all the industries that feed off it, their all doing great, not for much longer but, they've killed the host.
Last edited by thorn bird; 8th Aug 2014 at 23:55.
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Not too long ago, I went to Bankstown to see an old mate; got there early 0630 o'clock mid week to do other things. Eventually at 0735 o'clock, the graveyard stillness, silence and tranquillity was shattered. A chieftain took off; one solitary aircraft. That was it for quite a while before the school kids went out to play. The notion of being able to shoot a metaphorical gun at a BK runway, on weekday, early morning and not have much chance of hitting anything moving is indeed strange. BK always seemed to 'buzz', charter, flight school, gossip on every corner, coffee and conversation unlimited. Sad sorry state of affairs and the cost of Jet A1 is outrageous.
Dick I operate a flying school at Jandakot and have only been able to survive by going back to being a one man band from having seven full time employees.
Privatisation was without a doubt the main cause for the decline. CASA putting so many obstacles in the way of getting a Certificate of Validation killed the aviation tourism industry. ATC has never been a problem but I only fly VFR.
We will never go back to those numbers of movements we had in the 90s. But we could stop the decline and turn it around a bit if someone like yourself with your public profile could just put some pressure on the government to actually do what they said they would do here...
The Coalition?s plan for Aviation | Liberal Party of Australia
Privatisation was without a doubt the main cause for the decline. CASA putting so many obstacles in the way of getting a Certificate of Validation killed the aviation tourism industry. ATC has never been a problem but I only fly VFR.
We will never go back to those numbers of movements we had in the 90s. But we could stop the decline and turn it around a bit if someone like yourself with your public profile could just put some pressure on the government to actually do what they said they would do here...
The Coalition?s plan for Aviation | Liberal Party of Australia
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Dick,
I have just got back from USA, the place you quote as an aviation mecca (I agree with you, it certainly is). While I was over there I did quite a bit of flying, I spoke to quite a few pilots, there is no such thing as a landing charge, there is no such thing as being charged $40 for a practice ILS (the last charge I copped for an ILS), there is no such thing as 'user pays' it is considered national infrastructure. Dick, the inference from a lot of aviators is that you started user pays in Australia whether inadvertent or not.
I have just got back from USA, the place you quote as an aviation mecca (I agree with you, it certainly is). While I was over there I did quite a bit of flying, I spoke to quite a few pilots, there is no such thing as a landing charge, there is no such thing as being charged $40 for a practice ILS (the last charge I copped for an ILS), there is no such thing as 'user pays' it is considered national infrastructure. Dick, the inference from a lot of aviators is that you started user pays in Australia whether inadvertent or not.
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I'm starting my CPL training at YSCN next month, but I live 5 minutes down the road from YSBK.
Its true that a couple of years ago you would struggle to find a park at Bankstown, now it seems only Schofields still has a full carpark.
I'm worried what jobs will be left for a fresh CPL with an Instructor rating in the next couple of years. I may be working at the local woolies stacking shelves with another student pilot I know
Its true that a couple of years ago you would struggle to find a park at Bankstown, now it seems only Schofields still has a full carpark.
I'm worried what jobs will be left for a fresh CPL with an Instructor rating in the next couple of years. I may be working at the local woolies stacking shelves with another student pilot I know
Thread Starter
Jack. As a person of intelligence you would want to look at "facts " not " inference ",
I have never been involved in any government decision making which supported a sell off of airports or " user pays " when it comes to the regulator.
The only reason it has not yet happened in the USA is that US. AOPA is second only to the NRA as the most powerful lobby organization.
My involvement in Aviation was all about reducing unnecessary costs. Did not get a lot of support from the industry at the time as some benefitted from these extra costs. For example when I moved for flight instructors and aerial AG operators to not have AOCs -those who already had - objected to the extra competition this would bring in.
Remember when I pointed out that safety regulations had to be affordable by those who pay? It's still the same today!
I have never been involved in any government decision making which supported a sell off of airports or " user pays " when it comes to the regulator.
The only reason it has not yet happened in the USA is that US. AOPA is second only to the NRA as the most powerful lobby organization.
My involvement in Aviation was all about reducing unnecessary costs. Did not get a lot of support from the industry at the time as some benefitted from these extra costs. For example when I moved for flight instructors and aerial AG operators to not have AOCs -those who already had - objected to the extra competition this would bring in.
Remember when I pointed out that safety regulations had to be affordable by those who pay? It's still the same today!
Claeredtoreenter, China Southern and Singapore Flying College are still here at Jandakot.
Don't know about "over East" though..
Foreign flying training still happening but foreign pilots coming here and flying on thier PPLs, not happening. I hear from a source inside CASA that it can now take up to 12 months to get a Certificate of Validation. It used to take 12 hours.
Don't know about "over East" though..
Foreign flying training still happening but foreign pilots coming here and flying on thier PPLs, not happening. I hear from a source inside CASA that it can now take up to 12 months to get a Certificate of Validation. It used to take 12 hours.
"User pays" started in the Whitlam era under Frank Crean.
Airport privatisation per se is not the problem. You can see it working pretty well at places like Essendon where the owner has done some commercial development which enhances to airport and brings additional people to it.
The problem is that the government executes privatisation badly and made a couple of very poor choices for private operators.
Airport privatisation per se is not the problem. You can see it working pretty well at places like Essendon where the owner has done some commercial development which enhances to airport and brings additional people to it.
The problem is that the government executes privatisation badly and made a couple of very poor choices for private operators.
