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South Coast aircraft down 6/7/14

Old 7th Jul 2014, 06:55
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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They got that from the President who suggested that it could have happened because Moruya is a coastal area with lots of birds. As much as I know it can, a bird shouldn't take out an aircraft.
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Old 7th Jul 2014, 07:15
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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" a bird shouldn't take out an aircraft"

Perhaps you could discuss that belief with Capt Chelsey Sullenberger and F/O Jeff Skiles.

CC
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Old 7th Jul 2014, 07:47
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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i wouldn't be surprised if they hit a pelican! and hitting one in a morgan, in the canopy could be deadly. as it would in most lighties.

coming head to head with a pelican at 120 kts in a 172 is a scary situation, and those morgans, with the jabiru 3300 can easily cruise at 120kts.
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Old 7th Jul 2014, 09:08
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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I guess the "something fell off the plane" comments from the public could indeed be a bird of the result there-of.

If I recall correctly the Zodiac that went in at the Gold Coast a few years back was thought to have had a bird strike.
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Old 7th Jul 2014, 10:31
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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What a sad day. Sad for several reasons. Sad the aviation has lost one of the last true gentleman pilots, that would give the shirt of his back to help a budding pilot out. And sad we have to listen to the usual "arm chair air crash investigators, regurgitate news reports and off hand tales of birds and broken ferris wheels.
Hows a bout a thought spared for the families, and his close friends, of which there are hundreds.
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Old 8th Jul 2014, 01:51
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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I've said it before and will no doubt have to say it again a couple of times before I check out; "Bloody aeroplanes, love them dearly, but they cause a fair share of my heartache too". I too lost my original PPL instructor and latterly good friend, arriving on the beach just after he'd gone in on backline. Have to say I don't recall instructing the rest of the world on how they had to think and behave in the immediate aftermath, but perhaps time has added a layer of courtesy to my memory.

Both this one and the recent Inverell 210 really hit home for me, involving people who on the face of it were acting quite reasonably and going about their recreation and aviation business. It's easier to exclude those who poke their noses into grim weather or IMC - as in "yes but I'd never do that".

Often said that there aren't any new ways to write yourself off in an aircraft, so that really leaves; the builder, the designer, the pilot or some outside agency - like a bird. I hope they find the cause, although sadly the longer the search takes, the less likely they are to find all the bits, including that reputed to have fallen off beforehand. Anyone know the source of that report ie. kid on the beach or someone who had may have had an understanding of what they were seeing?
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Old 8th Jul 2014, 02:10
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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And sad we have to listen to the usual "arm chair air crash investigators, regurgitate news reports and off hand tales of birds and broken ferris wheels.
Hows a bout a thought spared for the families, and his close friends, of which there are hundreds.
Dood, as sad as this event is, it is human nature to speculate & solve the accident. If friends & family don't want to read it, don't. But it's human nature to take a peak also isn't it. As far as journalists coming to this site and reprinting posts, sue them for libel or defamation.
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Old 8th Jul 2014, 02:30
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Hows a bout a thought spared for the families, and his close friends, of which there are hundreds.
Oh please - spare me!

Whenever there is a prang we speculate on this forum as to what might have happened. IMO its in a pilot's nature to do so.

Whenever we do, someone posts a line like that above - which we ignore!

So why bother? If you don't like it - don't log in!

Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 8th Jul 2014 at 07:19.
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Old 8th Jul 2014, 04:08
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Speculating is part of the learning process. By the time the ATSB has worked it out it's usually 2.5 years later and the accident is long gone from our memories. For RAA aircraft, there usually is not the ATSB involved so we may never ever hear about this again.

By suggesting for example it was a bird strike, someone might read this and think twice about skimming along a beach at 50ft where birds usually reside and it might save another life or two. If you think to yourself that a bird could bring down your aircraft you may be extra cautious on your next flight. (Note: 50ft comment is not related this thread)

If a 210 goes in after taking off at last light and everyone starts suggesting somotographical illusion, then great, there's something I have just learnt about that I will keep in mind for my next flight. If the accident didn't happen, we wouldn't have been discussing it.

The best way to learn about aviation is to talk about it, consult with your resident airport peanut gallery, instructors, students and CPL's. The clinical approach of heading in to your local sausage factory for your 1 hour lesson and heading home straight afterwards won't get you the "life" experience that you need to be a safer and older pilot.
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Old 8th Jul 2014, 04:46
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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I'm with the previous three posters on this point! If 1 pilot learns something (and lives a bit longer) from reading 'speculation' on here, then that's gotta be a good thing AND the accident was not for nothing!
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Old 8th Jul 2014, 06:52
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Food for thought..??

No matter how many 'new' accidents / incidents we read about on these austere pages, it seems that there are no 'new' reasons.....

(OK - Some 'avoidable' and some maybe not). e.g. Structural Failure, EFATO into 'bad terrain' etc...

For many VFR flights into IMC, and the 'disorientation' that usually follows, it has often been pointed out that the funeral will usually be held on a fine sunny day!!
Yet, there are those who would still 'POR'...Press On Regardless...full of their own new found abilities...not!

And I too do miss the ole' Aviation Safety Digest where the story was told in a 'pilot to pilot' factual manner, and so, many of us actually learned without it being the 'hard way'..... well most of the time.....

On how many occasions have some of us stood around the 'Bar' discussing someone's 'most recent event', beer in hand, speculating, formulating theories, and most of all sharing ideas and learning.

"What might I have done"? in the same circumstances..??

Of course, we are ALL 'wise in hindsight' but the fact remains, we have thought about it, maybe formed an opinion, and learned....

In the absence of our favourite bar, we now have this forum, which really is the same thing - only not as 'congenial' and some 'original' ideas may be a bit further apart perhaps....

But the idea is the same. Pilots will talk and speculate, and criticise other pilots and their actions ad finitum.
'Tis a form of sharing and learning...well mostly!

E.G. Only last night I was watching 'Air Crashes' on the box, and saw a couple of 737's crash because of an autopilot fault.
So, in hindsight, we all ask, why not turn off the autopilot, and handfly the aeroplane?
With a certain 'attitude' and a certain 'power setting' it will continue to fly, or to climb, or to descend to a safer level, or whatever?
Power/attitude/trim..??

I know, there are 'extenuating circumstances', but you get the basic idea.....

'Commercial' over....normal viewing resumes....

(Hat, coat,........)

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Old 8th Jul 2014, 17:48
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Fairoaks flyer

What was the aircraft type please?
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Old 9th Jul 2014, 00:29
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Type

FF. It has been said to be a Morgan Sierra.
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Old 9th Jul 2014, 00:54
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, speculate away, for all the good it will do. My point was that there was 4 posts offering some form of human condolence, and then the experts pipe up, in the usual fashion. Saying its just how you do it round here is no excuse.
There is still people missing from this accident. Its all fun and games until its your mate, or father, or Instructor.

My sincerest condolences to the families who are suffering.
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Old 9th Jul 2014, 01:46
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...ham-white.html

MM the above may have escaped your notice, suggest you may be better off there. Lashing out here isn't helping your cause and it may be as well to stop and consider that you aren't the only person ever to have lost a loved one or close mate in an air crash. Play with these things long enough and sadly there is a fair chance of it happening to someone in your circle.
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Old 9th Jul 2014, 01:47
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Ex FSO Griffith - well said, that man.


The only difference between PPRuNe and the bar is that PPRuNe is more public, and people feel they are anonymous.
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Old 9th Jul 2014, 02:03
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, speculate away, for all the good it will do. My point was that there was 4 posts offering some form of human condolence, and then the experts pipe up, in the usual fashion. Saying its just how you do it round here is no excuse.
There is still people missing from this accident. Its all fun and games until its your mate, or father, or Instructor.
FFS, Don't come to this thread, don't read it. Or live in China where sites like this don't exist.
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Old 9th Jul 2014, 03:24
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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To speculate or not?

Speculation is best confined to investing. One poster says we learn from speculating, another says those who do speculate offend family & friends of accident victims.

From personal experience I believe speculation by contributors to this forum, in regard to aircraft accidents, serves no useful purpose. Investigators will, in most cases, determine what caused an accident or incident. When their findings are published is the time for "learning".

Those reading these forums have to accept that much of what is contributed can come from ill-informed people, many whom have no knowledge of matters aviation in general and probably are not qualified to offer an opinion. We can all learn something each day but what we learn needs to be accurate and not mere speculation.

RIP those lost.

Last edited by Old Fella; 9th Jul 2014 at 03:26. Reason: Grammar correction
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Old 9th Jul 2014, 04:38
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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The clinical approach of heading in to your local sausage factory for your 1 hour lesson and heading home straight afterwards won't get you the "life" experience that you need to be a safer and older pilot.
Couldn't agree more!

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Old 9th Jul 2014, 05:22
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Investigators will, in most cases, determine what caused an accident or incident. When their findings are published is the time for "learning".
OF: Can you cite any recent example of any ATSB report that states what caused an aviation accident or incident?

Last edited by Creampuff; 9th Jul 2014 at 06:46. Reason: Fixed typo
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