Australian License recognition internationally
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Australian License recognition internationally
Hi all,
I was wondering what an Australian CPL / ATPL counted for on an international scale. i.e: I see Asia req ICAO, USA FAA and EU JAA, I just wanted to know what an Aussie ATPL(A) pilot could apply for / what it was recognised as.
Any clarification / advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers
I was wondering what an Australian CPL / ATPL counted for on an international scale. i.e: I see Asia req ICAO, USA FAA and EU JAA, I just wanted to know what an Aussie ATPL(A) pilot could apply for / what it was recognised as.
Any clarification / advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers
L.A.S.,
Your Australian licence is a recognised ICAO licence.
It'll be accepted by Asian authorities (if that's where you want to go) to allow you to obtain a local licence after you jump through whatever hoops the local version of CASA wants you to do.
Be prepared to do an Air Law check and medical as a minimum.
Seaeagle109
Your Australian licence is a recognised ICAO licence.
It'll be accepted by Asian authorities (if that's where you want to go) to allow you to obtain a local licence after you jump through whatever hoops the local version of CASA wants you to do.
Be prepared to do an Air Law check and medical as a minimum.
Seaeagle109
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Australian License recognition internationally
Thanks guys, I thought that was the case. So for an FAA / JAA ATPL it's a requirement to sit all their subjects and flight tests? I'm fairly new so is this an uncommon thing for Aus pilots to do due to just not feasible? From what I'm hearing / reading it's a very tough road to an Australian airline these days. Cheers
Asia, Air Law and Medical.
Medicals in China and Japan are very tough, especially on BMI.
With the Americans I flew 'N' tails (in Australia and Asia) on a 'Validation' which was simply filling out a form. The FAA licence itself requires an exam. There is a booklet with hundreds of questions and requires rote learning, an oral exam and flight test.
The JAR licence is a problem and requires doing their ATPL exams, flight test, Instrument rating, the whole nine yards.
There use to be some relief if you had time on type above a certain weight, I think 40 tons by memory. I'm sure someone here will know. Best to contact the appropriate authority.
When we all fly in each others airspace on a daily basis it seems an 'International' licence would make sense but that would cause job losses with the 'biro munchers'.
Medicals in China and Japan are very tough, especially on BMI.
With the Americans I flew 'N' tails (in Australia and Asia) on a 'Validation' which was simply filling out a form. The FAA licence itself requires an exam. There is a booklet with hundreds of questions and requires rote learning, an oral exam and flight test.
The JAR licence is a problem and requires doing their ATPL exams, flight test, Instrument rating, the whole nine yards.
There use to be some relief if you had time on type above a certain weight, I think 40 tons by memory. I'm sure someone here will know. Best to contact the appropriate authority.
When we all fly in each others airspace on a daily basis it seems an 'International' licence would make sense but that would cause job losses with the 'biro munchers'.
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I've converted my Australian licenses to the Chinese (CAAC) and Indonesian equivalent. Each authority will have their own requirements for the conversion as mentioned before. It's usually passes in a couple of ground subjects, their own class 1 medical and a flight test.
The medicals in China and Indonesia are more thorough than in Australia. For example, the Indonesian class 1 are done every 6 months, chest xrays are done every 12 months and a stress ECG every 12 months for over 40's. And it only costs about $50 and you get your medical certificate from the DGCA medical officers on the day. They're surprisingly much more efficient than CASA.
The medicals in China and Indonesia are more thorough than in Australia. For example, the Indonesian class 1 are done every 6 months, chest xrays are done every 12 months and a stress ECG every 12 months for over 40's. And it only costs about $50 and you get your medical certificate from the DGCA medical officers on the day. They're surprisingly much more efficient than CASA.
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They're surprisingly much more efficient than CASA.
A country which accepts ICAO license will acknowledge an Australian or NZ license. If you do need to convert to an FAA or EASA license, FAA is very much easier. I don't think anyone gets an EASA license unless you actually have to work in Europe; it's too difficult.
Last edited by Oktas8; 1st Jun 2014 at 05:41.
There use to be some relief if you had time on type above a certain weight, I think 40 tons by memory. I'm sure someone here will know. Best to contact the appropriate authority.
LAS,
Understand that the EASA requirements are defacto trade/employment protection, nothing to do with air safety. For a low time pilot, it will be really quite expensive to jump through all the considerable number of hoops of fire.
Once you get the hours, get yourself an FAA ATR, a very commons sense and economical (in time and $$$) process, then you have a license that is recognised just about anywhere, other than Australia (unless you are looking for a CASA job) and EASALand.
Tootle pip!!
Understand that the EASA requirements are defacto trade/employment protection, nothing to do with air safety. For a low time pilot, it will be really quite expensive to jump through all the considerable number of hoops of fire.
Once you get the hours, get yourself an FAA ATR, a very commons sense and economical (in time and $$$) process, then you have a license that is recognised just about anywhere, other than Australia (unless you are looking for a CASA job) and EASALand.
Tootle pip!!
Possibly the most disappointing thing about this career is the fact that you couldn't just go to Europe and work without doing the entire licence again. You have to ask what is the point of having an ICAO licence/medical if you have to do the entire thing again when you move abroad. Are you qualified or not? Are you fit or not? Complete rubbish.
Air Law no problem, local regs need to be known but the airplane and the air are identical. Difference in climate etc is covered by the company.
Middle East requires a GCAA medical from memory. The word is GCAA and the EASA one at Gatwick are not exactly a walk in the park.
JAA (now EASA) had provision to shorten the process for those with Command time above 40 tonne. This isn't the case anymore. Basically a 320/737 pilot with 10,000 hours is the same as a GFPT pilot over there. (Happy to be corrected).
When I started out, the internet was in its infancy so there wasn't a prune etc to bounce these ideas and knowledge around. Thus I ended up doing my training in Aus thinking going to EU wouldn't be as big an issue as it actually is.
If I had my time over (and I wanted to be a pilot which I wouldn't but that's another story) I'd have done it in Europe then come to Australia done a medical air law and gone into GA for the experience then pissed off back to Europe when I wanted to.
Any Kiwis know if converting to Kiwi licence for Aus pilots is a rubber stamp job?
Good luck with it, and go do your licence in Europe btw.
Air Law no problem, local regs need to be known but the airplane and the air are identical. Difference in climate etc is covered by the company.
Middle East requires a GCAA medical from memory. The word is GCAA and the EASA one at Gatwick are not exactly a walk in the park.
JAA (now EASA) had provision to shorten the process for those with Command time above 40 tonne. This isn't the case anymore. Basically a 320/737 pilot with 10,000 hours is the same as a GFPT pilot over there. (Happy to be corrected).
When I started out, the internet was in its infancy so there wasn't a prune etc to bounce these ideas and knowledge around. Thus I ended up doing my training in Aus thinking going to EU wouldn't be as big an issue as it actually is.
If I had my time over (and I wanted to be a pilot which I wouldn't but that's another story) I'd have done it in Europe then come to Australia done a medical air law and gone into GA for the experience then pissed off back to Europe when I wanted to.
Any Kiwis know if converting to Kiwi licence for Aus pilots is a rubber stamp job?
Good luck with it, and go do your licence in Europe btw.
Berealgetreal under the Trans-Tasman Mutual Recognition Act (TTMRA) the Australian and Kiwi licence can be converted by a paper trail. Google TTMRA.
There are a few little 'problems', the Kiwis do not recognize Co-Pilot endorsements.
The Kiwi Command Instrument Rating can only be bounced back for an Aussie one once.
They will only endorse aircraft on the Kiwi register.
The Kiwis have a fixation about 'mountain flying' in the questionnaire. Best not to say you've flown over a couple, they mean something else apparently.
Compared to CASA, CAA are easy to deal with, lovely people.
The forms are the usual crap about being 'a fit and proper person' and all the twaddle about witness suitability. My Chinese Chemist was 'suitable' but all my Airline Captain friends were most certainly not. (wise people somewhere in those halls of officialdom).
There are a few little 'problems', the Kiwis do not recognize Co-Pilot endorsements.
The Kiwi Command Instrument Rating can only be bounced back for an Aussie one once.
They will only endorse aircraft on the Kiwi register.
The Kiwis have a fixation about 'mountain flying' in the questionnaire. Best not to say you've flown over a couple, they mean something else apparently.
Compared to CASA, CAA are easy to deal with, lovely people.
The forms are the usual crap about being 'a fit and proper person' and all the twaddle about witness suitability. My Chinese Chemist was 'suitable' but all my Airline Captain friends were most certainly not. (wise people somewhere in those halls of officialdom).
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Yep, converting the licence to an EASA one is a ball ache of the highest order.
The UK CAA used to issue a JAA ATPL valid for G-reg aircraft if you had 1500 hours in command of 30 tonne a/c or greater (etc) but that loop hole has been closed now. Note, if you wanted to fly for a different country, e.g. Ireland or Portugal, you'd have to do the rest of those wonderful exams...
The UK CAA used to issue a JAA ATPL valid for G-reg aircraft if you had 1500 hours in command of 30 tonne a/c or greater (etc) but that loop hole has been closed now. Note, if you wanted to fly for a different country, e.g. Ireland or Portugal, you'd have to do the rest of those wonderful exams...
The whole EASA licence conversion is a just a crap attempt at protectionism for EU pilot jobs. Lets face it, there are tens of thousands of EU passport holders living outside of Europe. I know at least a dozen Aussie and Kiwi pilots who have EU as well their Aus/NZ passports due to one or both of their parents being EU citizens.
Can you imagine how many people would flood into Europe if if was just an airlaw exam to convert your ICAO recognised licence to a EASA one? Pilot wages in the EU are already in the toilet. Do you need them to go any lower?
Can you imagine how many people would flood into Europe if if was just an airlaw exam to convert your ICAO recognised licence to a EASA one? Pilot wages in the EU are already in the toilet. Do you need them to go any lower?
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Australian License recognition internationally
A lot of great info here guys, really appreciated. In short, yes pilot chute summed up what I was thinking as with an EU born parent and with Aussie airlines not looking like hiring anytime soon I thought if I could somehow short track my ATPL studies / aim them towards another avenue. As someone who gave up a healthy sales career (pls don't say I shouldn't have as dozens already have) to follow a life long goal I must say it's really looking gloomy out there and as much as it's a buzz for me now putting a smile on my face every day I can only see a lucky star getting a low timer like myself out of GA and into an airliner in the next decade... Once again cheers for the clarification
Well I say if we have to do the entire licence from scratch the same should apply to them coming here. Of course that would never happen in the land that imports wealthy cultures to keep the property market and banks afloat.
Even if I could get a licence easily there, in my opinion the horse has bolted with regards to decent jobs so it's not worth the effort. 10 years ago might have been a different story.
As for wages as whole have a look at the US if you're looking for bad examples.
Anyone with half a brain should steer well clear of this industry. It's been on a steady decline for 20 years. People aren't going to wake up tomorrow and say 'hey I think we should pay more for airfares'. If anything the opposite will be true. Sorry about the thread drift!
Even if I could get a licence easily there, in my opinion the horse has bolted with regards to decent jobs so it's not worth the effort. 10 years ago might have been a different story.
As for wages as whole have a look at the US if you're looking for bad examples.
Anyone with half a brain should steer well clear of this industry. It's been on a steady decline for 20 years. People aren't going to wake up tomorrow and say 'hey I think we should pay more for airfares'. If anything the opposite will be true. Sorry about the thread drift!
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License
Hi, to all, My name is Jagadish and I am Indian. I have Aircraft Maintenance Engineer License according to DGCA in India. I want to know whether it is equal to CIVIL AVIATION SAFETY AUTHORITY of AUSTRALIA ? because the reason is that i want to apply for a job in Australia, as an AME.
So, please help me to know about it more.
I will be thankful to all.
So, please help me to know about it more.
I will be thankful to all.
Your licence needs to match the aircraft registration. Which is a subtly different that requiring a licence for the country. There are quite a few Aussie pilots working in Asia on Australian licences flying VH registered aircraft.
In order to have a licence issued by another country based on your Australian licence, you need an email from CASA to the other authority confirming your Australian licence.
CASA will not do this for the old CAR 5 licences, only Part 61 licences. I found this out when I got my last Thai licence renewal. CASA put me on the "fast track" to issue a new Part 61 licence. They promised 10 days. It took 3 months. If you are thinking about an overseas licence, get your Part 61 licence in order - now.
All the the I was waiting for CASA, a very nice Thai was emailing CASA asking when they would be able to confirm my Australian licence. She copied me on the emails and the CASA responses were farcical. There was one person at the Thai DCA handling my licence, but in Australia we could never speak to the same person twice and no two people ever gave the same advice.
The other small trap is that CASA charge $75 to confirm that you have a licence to an overseas authority - but they don't tell you. If you don't pay this fee, simply nothing happens. But its the overseas authority that requests it - not you. So you never make any application that would alert you to the fact. You are just supposed to know. So, as soon as you apply for an overseas licence, you must go to CASA and get the payment form to release details to a third party and pay the fee.
I have dealt with the US FAA. The NZ CAA and the Thai DCA. CASA is the worst to deal with. The Thai DCA makes us look like the one that is a third world country.
In order to have a licence issued by another country based on your Australian licence, you need an email from CASA to the other authority confirming your Australian licence.
CASA will not do this for the old CAR 5 licences, only Part 61 licences. I found this out when I got my last Thai licence renewal. CASA put me on the "fast track" to issue a new Part 61 licence. They promised 10 days. It took 3 months. If you are thinking about an overseas licence, get your Part 61 licence in order - now.
All the the I was waiting for CASA, a very nice Thai was emailing CASA asking when they would be able to confirm my Australian licence. She copied me on the emails and the CASA responses were farcical. There was one person at the Thai DCA handling my licence, but in Australia we could never speak to the same person twice and no two people ever gave the same advice.
The other small trap is that CASA charge $75 to confirm that you have a licence to an overseas authority - but they don't tell you. If you don't pay this fee, simply nothing happens. But its the overseas authority that requests it - not you. So you never make any application that would alert you to the fact. You are just supposed to know. So, as soon as you apply for an overseas licence, you must go to CASA and get the payment form to release details to a third party and pay the fee.
I have dealt with the US FAA. The NZ CAA and the Thai DCA. CASA is the worst to deal with. The Thai DCA makes us look like the one that is a third world country.
KKRISH
First of all you will need to have the right to work in Australia and that is not easy as you have to be sponsored.
Secondly you will have to do all the basic exams here, or go through an apprenticeship which is almost impossible to get due the decline of GA.
First of all you will need to have the right to work in Australia and that is not easy as you have to be sponsored.
Secondly you will have to do all the basic exams here, or go through an apprenticeship which is almost impossible to get due the decline of GA.